Hard Use Knife

[Paraguy]

Could you ever directly compare a Native and a Chap in "hard" use (gripping the handle very firmly and cutting tough material)?
This is when for me the Chap is just more stable and locked in

I can't. I had a Native LW for a couple days but the design just didn't connect with me (I think because it was an LW and I typically don't like those) So I didn't really use it too much. I'd love to try a G10 version though.

The light weight is economical. The only thing keeping me from the native 5 with g10 is the price. Para 3 and Manix are both cheaper and I prefer their locking mechanisms.

[JRinFL]

I’ll try it again, used Spydercos have lots of life left, have a proper opening hole, and fall within the OPs budget. Check out the spyderco swap and maybe post a “want” post.

[Paraguy]

https://www.ebay.com/p/2255353894?iid=333999149567
https://www.ebay.com/p/1536986486?iid=324620227187
Used Native 5 LWs

[Paraguy]

I’ll try it again, used Spydercos have lots of life left, have a proper opening hole, and fall within the OPs budget. Check out the spyderco swap and maybe post a “want” post.

last time I checked, you have to be a member of this forum for over 6 months to join.

[JRinFL]

I’ll try it again, used Spydercos have lots of life left, have a proper opening hole, and fall within the OPs budget. Check out the spyderco swap and maybe post a “want” post.

last time I checked, you have to be a member of this forum for over 6 months to join.

Right, I forgot about that. Well, not too much longer for the OP. There’s always the ‘Bay and BF’s swap.

[sparty569]

Hard use means different things for different people.
For me it means not holding back in fear of damaging the knife, i.e. borderline not being a (pocket) knife task, or even beyond that border.
I've been able to circumvent that problem myself by adding a small pry bar to my EDC, but if I wanted to accomplish that same range of use with just a knife, price and safety would be my primary concern. I don't want the value of my knife to hold me back from doing what needs to be done and I certainly want to avoid getting hurt in the process.
So if you're on a budget and want a backlock for hard use, that's just another way of spelling Cold Steel. That's their whole thing.
Not a lot of Cold Steels appeal to me though, but in this situation I would be able to look past that minor detail.

Maybe not even CS. It is hard use. The proper answer would be to just go straight to a full tang fixed blade with 14C28N or 3V steel. With a convex grind. No?

Generally yes, but the OP need it to be a folder for legal reasons, and he want that folder to be a lock back because of personal preference.
So CS it is.

Trust me...I wish I could just carry a fixed blade and call it a day, but Michigan sucks with it's fixed blade laws.

I am still going back and forth on if I need this in my life. I'm trying to justify it, even though I have a nice beefy Buck 110 sitting next to me, and a SOG Instinct (fixed blade that is smaller than my Mantra 3, but yet still illegal if covered at all) that I can use at my cottage.

This started because I want to do some bushcraft stuff up at the cottage, and the first thing I thought of was pulling out my pocket knife (not my Mantra 3) to create that divot, shape a stock, and try to start a fire with a Bowdrill. So no battoing of wood, but definitely carving, shaping, digging holes, would be what I would consider hard use for this purpose.

I did notice that the Chaparral is the same blade thickness as a Mora, so that calmed me down about the blade thickness when handling these kinds of tasks. Just deciding if I "need" this.

[sparty569]

Im holding my new Chap right now and nothing about it screams hard use. It's a little bigger than the Dragonfly with very thin blade stock - a great little slicer. But for 60 bucks I'd totally get it as long as it's not a scam. For a light weight hard use knife id recommend a delica, endela or endura (they cost a little more than 60 though ). If your sure you don't want to spend more than 60 get a tenacious, resilience or something from another brand. If you don't mind SE I can find you a used Native lw (it costs more than 60, but still a great deal. Shoot me PM if you're interested :) )

:) I appreciate the offer. I liked the Chaparral, since it's a smaller companion knife to my Mantra 3.

I was looking at the Buck, the blade is a little bit thicker, and I could have an S30V one for around the same price, thanks to Reddit. So that was my thinking between the 2. Lockback, smaller than 3 inches, and I can do work with.

[sparty569]

I’ll try it again, used Spydercos have lots of life left, have a proper opening hole, and fall within the OPs budget. Check out the spyderco swap and maybe post a “want” post.

That's where I Found the gentleman with this one. I have been all over Reddit, weighing my options, while I decide if this is something I "need."

[Snacktime]

Buck and hard use don't go together. People will claim they are but the handles don't last.

I would go with a bow river or another fixed blade in the sub $60 price range.

To get enough lock strength and blade thickness to handle abuse you are definitely in the $100 price range for a folder. Stretch would be my choice, endura just doesn't have enough blade thickness for me

[Paraguy]

Hard use means different things for different people.
For me it means not holding back in fear of damaging the knife, i.e. borderline not being a (pocket) knife task, or even beyond that border.
I've been able to circumvent that problem myself by adding a small pry bar to my EDC, but if I wanted to accomplish that same range of use with just a knife, price and safety would be my primary concern. I don't want the value of my knife to hold me back from doing what needs to be done and I certainly want to avoid getting hurt in the process.
So if you're on a budget and want a backlock for hard use, that's just another way of spelling Cold Steel. That's their whole thing.
Not a lot of Cold Steels appeal to me though, but in this situation I would be able to look past that minor detail.

Maybe not even CS. It is hard use. The proper answer would be to just go straight to a full tang fixed blade with 14C28N or 3V steel. With a convex grind. No?

Generally yes, but the OP need it to be a folder for legal reasons, and he want that folder to be a lock back because of personal preference.
So CS it is.

Trust me...I wish I could just carry a fixed blade and call it a day, but Michigan sucks with it's fixed blade laws.

I am still going back and forth on if I need this in my life. I'm trying to justify it, even though I have a nice beefy Buck 110 sitting next to me, and a SOG Instinct (fixed blade that is smaller than my Mantra 3, but yet still illegal if covered at all) that I can use at my cottage.

This started because I want to do some bushcraft stuff up at the cottage, and the first thing I thought of was pulling out my pocket knife (not my Mantra 3) to create that divot, shape a stock, and try to start a fire with a Bowdrill. So no battoing of wood, but definitely carving, shaping, digging holes, would be what I would consider hard use for this purpose.

I did notice that the Chaparral is the same blade thickness as a Mora, so that calmed me down about the blade thickness when handling these kinds of tasks. Just deciding if I "need" this.

In that case id take a look at the cold steel Finwolf. (spyderco also makes the wolfspyder.) A scandi grind will be preferable. These are a great price: 56 bucks .https://www.bladehq.com/item--Real-Stee ... ner--61459 It might be just what your looking for.

[sparty569]

Maybe not even CS. It is hard use. The proper answer would be to just go straight to a full tang fixed blade with 14C28N or 3V steel. With a convex grind. No?

Generally yes, but the OP need it to be a folder for legal reasons, and he want that folder to be a lock back because of personal preference.
So CS it is.

Trust me...I wish I could just carry a fixed blade and call it a day, but Michigan sucks with it's fixed blade laws.

I am still going back and forth on if I need this in my life. I'm trying to justify it, even though I have a nice beefy Buck 110 sitting next to me, and a SOG Instinct (fixed blade that is smaller than my Mantra 3, but yet still illegal if covered at all) that I can use at my cottage.

This started because I want to do some bushcraft stuff up at the cottage, and the first thing I thought of was pulling out my pocket knife (not my Mantra 3) to create that divot, shape a stock, and try to start a fire with a Bowdrill. So no battoing of wood, but definitely carving, shaping, digging holes, would be what I would consider hard use for this purpose.

I did notice that the Chaparral is the same blade thickness as a Mora, so that calmed me down about the blade thickness when handling these kinds of tasks. Just deciding if I "need" this.

In that case id take a look at the cold steel Finwolf. (spyderco also makes the wolfspyder.) A scandi grind will be preferable. These are a great price: 56 bucks .https://www.bladehq.com/item--Real-Stee ... ner--61459 It might be just what your looking for.

That does look pretty nice. G10 and D2 is mighty nice. I could always get a Puko Mora to try out, and just leave it up north.

[Wartstein]

If you can, get a used Native LW. It is a much better hard use knife than the Chaparral. Not only the blade is 70% thicker and slightly longer, but the ergonomics are better too (larger, thicker, more hand filling handle) which will make all the difference. And compared to a 110 it really is ultralight.

This is the case for you, but not for me or for all
So not a fact, but something the op would have to try for himself.
(I found the Chap to be way better for my hard (and light) use, especially in ergos - so much so that I sold my Native - see here for my reasoning viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89663&start=20#p1522700)

Do you imagine Kobold is making a recommendation to you, Gernot, rather than to the OP? If so, you’re hijacking this thread.

I think Kobold’s recommendation (not a declaration of fact but of opinion) is perfectly in keeping with what the OP might find suitable, except that it will be difficult to stay within the OP’s budget.

Excuse me, I honestly can´t follow here - :confused: :o
(Or perhaps you did not really read the whole thread and get the whole context?)

- The OP is looking for a knife that is "hard use" in the sense of (quoting him): "Think prepping firewood making scrolls, things that I wouldnt want to use my Mantra 3 for. I wouldnt be batoning wood with it, but other hard use, non-striking tasks are on the table."
- The Op is obviously considering a Chap which he can have for just around $ 60
- He happens to have not much experience with Spydercos yet and is relying to a large part on what opinions we give here and what he makes of those.
- Now I know both the Chap and the Native from my own experience in the exact scenario the op describes, and for me the Chap happens to be clearly better there - is easily strong enough (including the blade), extremely solid built, does the tasks (for me) better due to its better cutting geometry and feels better and more stable in my hand than the Native.
- Now Kobold made it sound (not deliberately!) as if it was a known fact that the Native must be "a much better hard use knife" (it will be for reckless hard use no one really does with folders, but not necessarily for what the OP wants) and must have better ergos (obviously not the case for all, though, as I clearly pointed out in the conversation, I was surprised too that the Chap in my real live experience did better here for me)
- In order to further help the op I just wanted to point out that this is not necessarily true for all and he should try for himself
- Kobold and I are perfectly fine, no offense was ever meant, I even made clear that in general he of course is right and a more handfilling, thicker handle normally is more ergonomic (see here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89663&start=40#p1523115)

- So: I really can´t see your issue?! :confused:
Like the op asked, Kobold and I gave our -in this case - differing opinions concerning Chap and Native, both based on real, honest experience...

[Wartstein]

I’ll try it again, used Spydercos have lots of life left, have a proper opening hole, and fall within the OPs budget. Check out the spyderco swap and maybe post a “want” post.

That's where I Found the gentleman with this one. I have been all over Reddit, weighing my options, while I decide if this is something I "need."

Hey sparty, just now happened to see your pm, sorry! Will reply soon!

[Wartstein]

...
I did notice that the Chaparral is the same blade thickness as a Mora, so that calmed me down about the blade thickness when handling these kinds of tasks. Just deciding if I "need" this.

Trust me, the Chaps blade is really strong enough for your kind of bushcraft tasks (it is thicker than most Opinels for example and a lot wider) and in my experience even superior in performance BECAUSE it is reasonably thin for a small folder - this is my honest experience, I did really beat on that thing, it holds up perfectly and outperforms all the "fat bladed" folders (except in light batoning with unlocked blade for making kindling, here the fat, more "wedgy" blades do better)

So: If the short edge (though practically as long as a Native offers) is ok with you and the ergos too - go for it, especially as a backup knife that you won´t use over a longer period of time continuously. The Chap actually IS my "bushcraft claw" which I like as a companion for a larger knife, the Chap performing all the small tasks (and better than any other small folder I had so far)

That being said: Generally I´d go for more blade-/edge length for the scenarios you describe - Endela or even Endura perhaps?
You could find both used for your $ 60 I guess...

[TkoK83Spy]

Chap and bushcraft go together like water and oil. This is comical!

[Wartstein]

Im holding my new Chap right now and nothing about it screams hard use. It's a little bigger than the Dragonfly with very thin blade stock - a great little slicer. But for 60 bucks I'd totally get it as long as it's not a scam. For a light weight hard use knife id recommend a delica, endela or endura (they cost a little more than 60 though ). If your sure you don't want to spend more than 60 get a tenacious, resilience or something from another brand. If you don't mind SE I can find you a used Native lw (it costs more than 60, but still a great deal. Shoot me PM if you're interested :) )

Tenacious would be a great choice, but he specifically wants a backlock (though, OP: Overall the backlock is my favorite locktype too, but for outdoor use a good linerlock works great - in operation even better than a backlock, especially with gloves!)

/ As for the Chap: Right, it does not "scream hard use" in the crazy youtuber destruction test sense...
But: For what the op wants it is easily "hard use" enough (I did test did, believe me!) - Blade a great performer, but still stromg enough, and the built is extremely solid: All steel in the handle (backspacer, lockbar, liners), very strong backlock (internal stop pin), sturdy FRN...

[Wartstein]

Chap and bushcraft go together like water and oil. This is comical!

Rick, how much "bushcraft" did/do you do? (Honest question!)

As always I am talking from my own, honest experience - and also in comparing the Chap to the Native.
As said: If (!!) I carry a main, larger bushcraft blade, the Chap is perfect for all the very small tasks that might occur - better than any other folder of this size I am aware of - unnoticable in carry, decent ergos, extremely solid built, great steel and superior cutting geometry! Try for yourself! :)
- and the op IS considering a folder that small, and this is the background for what I say (I also said that generally, and as a single knife, of course a longer blade is better!)

I am talking cutting smaller notches, making firesticks, cutting small diameter food, cordage...

[sparty569]

I’ll try it again, used Spydercos have lots of life left, have a proper opening hole, and fall within the OPs budget. Check out the spyderco swap and maybe post a “want” post.

That's where I Found the gentleman with this one. I have been all over Reddit, weighing my options, while I decide if this is something I "need."

Hey sparty, just now happened to see your pm, sorry! Will reply soon!

Appreciate it. It might be a moot point, as I don't think I'm considering a Buck as of now.

[Wartstein]

I’ll try it again, used Spydercos have lots of life left, have a proper opening hole, and fall within the OPs budget. Check out the spyderco swap and maybe post a “want” post.

That's where I Found the gentleman with this one. I have been all over Reddit, weighing my options, while I decide if this is something I "need."

Hey sparty, just now happened to see your pm, sorry! Will reply soon!

Appreciate it. It might be a moot point, as I don't think I'm considering a Buck as of now.

Sent! :)
And as said there: For your ONLY knife for general EDC ("bushcraft", construction,...) the Chap is too small imho.
And the handle, though good for what it is, not too well suited for prolongued use.

As an ONLY knife for "harder" tasks I´d really get something larger. You want a backlock, so Endela, Endura, Stretch, RockJumoer, Pac Salt... all would be good choices
In that role I personally would even take a Delica over the Chap (but not the Native)

But again: As backup / secondary / small task knife: The Chap is great

[awa54]

While the Chaparral sounds like a poor match for your stated needs, I'd say buy it anyway... If it's under $60 and in good condition, that's a great deal!

The Chap is a slim, but solid knife that bridges between the gentleman and small EDC categories very nicely.

The blade stop pin design in the Chaparral is not one I'd expose to dirt, the potential for crud to get inside the stop pin channel is real and could easily interfere with function