Why doesn't Spyderco use D2 in their Seki models?

[Blnd]

I read somewhere that the majority of D2 used worldwide is sourced from China. Can we try not to put every egg in the same basket?

I agree with Fixall I that 14C28n or, dare I say it, even AEB-L would be a better choice. VG-10 could remain the standard blade steel unless there is another Japanese steel that would be better?

Agreed. Hard pass on Chinese steels. Much rather keep VG10.

[curlyhairedboy]

The very small benefit in performance would not justify the logistics expense.

[Bolster]

Agreed. Hard pass on Chinese steels.

Very much agree.

[Sharp Guy]

D2 isn't stainless, that's a problem for a lot of folks, and performance should be roughly in the same ballpark as vg-10.

Bingo! :)

I have a couple knives with D2 and don't have an issue with it. Given a choice I'd rather have VG-10. I think Stainless Steel is a must for the general public

[TomAiello]

I agree with Fixall I that 14C28n or, dare I say it, even AEB-L would be a better choice. VG-10 could remain the standard blade steel unless there is another Japanese steel that would be better?

I actually really like 14c28n. I have made several fixed blades from it, and I own several production folders made from it.

I'd love to see the budget knives go from 8cr13mov to 14c28n. But if it would require a noticeable price increase I don't think it's worth the trade off. Spyderco's 8cr13mov is better than any of the others I have tried (the difference between my Spyderco 8cr folders and my Kershaw 8cr folders is kind of ridiculous--it seems like a totally different steel), and I don't think that the performance jump from Spyderco's currently market-best 8cr13mov to 14c28n (assuming approximately the same performance level as Kershaw's 14c28n Leek, which is roughly similar to the Brisa and Realsteel 14c28n fixed blades I've owned) would be worth a substantial price increase.

Spyderco's line up going from 8cr13mov to BD1n to Spy27, and so forth, doesn't seem to need a 14c28n step.

I'd love to see an Endura family sprint in 14c28n though. :) I'm just not so sure the permanent line up would benefit because I suspect it would involve a price increase on the budget models, which would defeat the purpose.

[Paraguy]

It most likely doesn't offer enough advantages over VG10 to bother, especially considering the lack of corrosion resistance. I could see them maybe doing a sprint someday but never a full change to D2 over VG10.

Thats what I mean. Vg10 is a still more user friendly therefore it would be better as a base line. But I still think they could offer a D2 version.

[Paraguy]

The very small benefit in performance would not justify the logistics expense.

The sad truth.

[Paraguy]

D2 isn't stainless, that's a problem for a lot of folks, and performance should be roughly in the same ballpark as vg-10.

Bingo! :)

I have a couple knives with D2 and don't have an issue with it. Given a choice I'd rather have VG-10. I think Stainless Steel is a must for the general public

true

[Matus]

While D2 is not a ‘bad’ steel, for a company like Spyderco with their apparent access to many modern steels, there is really no reason for them to introduce D2 - a steel that is known for large carbides and as of today inferior to many CPM offerings.

[Enactive]

I agree with Fixall I that 14C28n or, dare I say it, even AEB-L would be a better choice. VG-10 could remain the standard blade steel unless there is another Japanese steel that would be better?

I actually really like 14c28n. I have made several fixed blades from it, and I own several production folders made from it.

I'd love to see the budget knives go from 8cr13mov to 14c28n. But if it would require a noticeable price increase I don't think it's worth the trade off. Spyderco's 8cr13mov is better than any of the others I have tried (the difference between my Spyderco 8cr folders and my Kershaw 8cr folders is kind of ridiculous--it seems like a totally different steel), and I don't think that the performance jump from Spyderco's currently market-best 8cr13mov to 14c28n (assuming approximately the same performance level as Kershaw's 14c28n Leek, which is roughly similar to the Brisa and Realsteel 14c28n fixed blades I've owned) would be worth a substantial price increase.

Spyderco's line up going from 8cr13mov to BD1n to Spy27, and so forth, doesn't seem to need a 14c28n step.

I'd love to see an Endura family sprint in 14c28n though. :) I'm just not so sure the permanent line up would benefit because I suspect it would involve a price increase on the budget models, which would defeat the purpose.

I have a similar fondness for 12c27 and 14c28N. I do think that Sandvik steels don't command the premium price of Uddeholm's AEB-L. In theory there is a Sandvik 13c Analog to AEB-L but I haven't seen it.

I don't really know, but also suspect that Spyderco's 8Cr is good enough to out compete the Swedish steels for price, with shipping, duty and inventory control.

I'd love a 14c28N Stretch 2, Native, Manix LW, Native Chief... If run a bit harder than Mora does I think it has impressive edge stability-- but not super great wear resistance.

[TomAiello]

In theory there is a Sandvik 13c Analog to AEB-L but I haven't seen it.

13c26? I have a Kershaw Leek in that steel. I'm not sure how long they used it before they upgraded to 14c28n. I think they used 12c27 for a long time, and 13c26 for only a short time.

[Enactive]

In theory there is a Sandvik 13c Analog to AEB-L but I haven't seen it.

13c26? I have a Kershaw Leek in that steel. I'm not sure how long they used it before they upgraded to 14c28n. I think they used 12c27 for a long time, and 13c26 for only a short time.

They are all quite good and similar-- and the fine grain structure and good 'chemical purity' account for much of the common characteristics.

[Bolster]

While D2 is not a ‘bad’ steel, for a company like Spyderco with their apparent access to many modern steels, there is really no reason for them to introduce D2 - a steel that is known for large carbides and as of today inferior to many CPM offerings.

I had assumed we were talking about CPM D2. We're not?

[Matus]

I had assumed we were talking about CPM D2. We're not?

Very most D2 on the knife market is not CPM, so unless it is explicitly mentioned, I would not make that assumption.

[Gtscotty]

I had assumed we were talking about CPM D2. We're not?

Very most D2 on the knife market is not CPM, so unless it is explicitly mentioned, I would not make that assumption.

My only Spyderco D2 is CPM D2 though, depends on whether we're talking about replacing VG10 or 8cr13mov, Anything other than CPM would probably be a step down overall from VG10.

I'm really not an 8cr13mov fan and would probably take decently done Chinese D2 (it's not all bad) over 8cr. 8cr13mov is the least stainless, stainless steel I've used, so I suspect D2 wouldn't be a huge step down in that category.

[Oloung1]

Thats what I mean. Vg10 is a still more user friendly therefore it would be better as a base line. But I still think they could offer a D2 version.

For a CPM sprint or exclusive, would you still prefer D2 over Cru-wear? Seki line is no longer the budget/base.

[Paraguy]

Thats what I mean. Vg10 is a still more user friendly therefore it would be better as a base line. But I still think they could offer a D2 version.

For a CPM sprint or exclusive, would you still prefer D2 over Cru-wear? Seki line is no longer the budget/base.

No. D2 is inexpensive it would be a lot less expensive that Cruwear. Your point being??

[Skywalker]

Thats what I mean. Vg10 is a still more user friendly therefore it would be better as a base line. But I still think they could offer a D2 version.

For a CPM sprint or exclusive, would you still prefer D2 over Cru-wear? Seki line is no longer the budget/base.

No. D2 is inexpensive it would be a lot less expensive that Cruwear. Your point being??

I don't think that's true if you're talking CPM-D2 vs CPM-CruWear. I'm sure Spyderco would get a better deal in bulk, but just looking at NSM's prices for the two -

Comparing decarb free, sawcut CPM-D2 and CPM-CruWear at 0.187" thickness, yard long, and let's say 2" wide -
- CPM-D2: $262.75 (https://www.nsm-ny.com/index.cfm?fuseac ... gory_ID=42)
- CPM-CruWear: $259.75 (https://www.nsm-ny.com/index.cfm?fuseac ... gory_ID=66)

(prices being equal, I'll take the CPM-CruWear)

[Paraguy]

Thats what I mean. Vg10 is a still more user friendly therefore it would be better as a base line. But I still think they could offer a D2 version.

For a CPM sprint or exclusive, would you still prefer D2 over Cru-wear? Seki line is no longer the budget/base.

No. D2 is inexpensive it would be a lot less expensive that Cruwear. Your point being??

I don't think that's true if you're talking CPM-D2 vs CPM-CruWear. I'm sure Spyderco would get a better deal in bulk, but just looking at NSM's prices for the two -

Comparing decarb free, sawcut CPM-D2 and CPM-CruWear at 0.187" thickness, yard long, and let's say 2" wide -
- CPM-D2: $262.75 (https://www.nsm-ny.com/index.cfm?fuseac ... gory_ID=42)
- CPM-CruWear: $259.75 (https://www.nsm-ny.com/index.cfm?fuseac ... gory_ID=66)

(prices being equal, I'll take the CPM-CruWear)

Regular D2 is inexpensive because its NOT a CPM steal. However I wasn't talking about CPM D2.

[Oloung1]

Regular D2 is inexpensive because its NOT a CPM steal. However I wasn't talking about CPM D2.

The point was why ask for the ingot version in a non-budget line, when there already is a budget line? Value proposition of ingot D2 in Seki just isn't there for the consumer.

I would think about paying a little more for D2 in a Cara Cara but wouldn't pay for D2 in an Endura at Vg10 prices.