Steel lockbar inserts: necessary or not?

[The Meat man]

I hear a lot of talk about this issue but not a lot of data. I've got two questions:

Are you in favor of steel lockbar inserts?

Have you ever experienced issues because a knife didn't have a lockbar insert?

Feel free to elaborate below.

[VooDooChild]

I havent had a problem on knives that dont have them.

[sal]

Hi Conner,

Do you mean for Titan locks?

sal

[nerdlock]

Voted for like, and had problems w/out them on Spy Ti integral locks.

My lock on the Spydie Chef is more than 50% engaged already and I only had it for less than 2 years, and it competes for rotation with 50+ knives so it's used only about once every 2-3 weeks...I don't have the same issue with my Swayback.

Again, people's mileages may vary though and I could be an outlier here.

[Sharp Guy]

I have a lot Ti frame locks and I think all but the Sage 2 and Southard have steel lock bar inserts. No issues with either of those

[VooDooChild]

Voted for like, and had problems w/out them on Spy Ti integral locks.

My lock on the Spydie Chef is more than 50% engaged already and I only had it for less than 2 years, and it competes for rotation with 50+ knives so it's used only about once every 2-3 weeks...I don't have the same issue with my Swayback.

Again, people's mileages may vary though and I could be an outlier here.

Pretty much all the chefs have late lockups, that dont effect performance, and arent going to wear out to 100% from being used.
Whats the problem?

[nerdlock]

Voted for like, and had problems w/out them on Spy Ti integral locks.

My lock on the Spydie Chef is more than 50% engaged already and I only had it for less than 2 years, and it competes for rotation with 50+ knives so it's used only about once every 2-3 weeks...I don't have the same issue with my Swayback.

Again, people's mileages may vary though and I could be an outlier here.

Pretty much all the chefs have late lockups, that dont efffect performance, and arent going to wear out to 100% from being used.
Whats the problem?

It now has minor lock stick that wasn't there before.

Sometimes it sticks, sometimes it doesn't. Haven't tried putting pencil lead on the contacts but if it gets worse I might try that method.

[Lucabrasi]

I just don’t see the reason not to have them. Maybe someone can explain that there are drawbacks. It can’t be price. They are standard issue on many other frame locks across the price range.

My Chef does have lock stick. Not an amount that bothers me but there’s an audible click every time the lock is pushed over. It’s there. Doesn’t keep it from being maybe my favorite knife, but any with an insert I’ve used have no such issue. I just don’t understand the resistance to it.

[VooDooChild]

...
It now has minor lock stick that wasn't there before.

Sometimes it sticks, sometimes it doesn't. Haven't tried putting pencil lead on the contacts but if it gets worse I might try that method.

Yeah. My chef started out with terrible lockstick that thankfully went away. Forgot about the lockstick problem. It seems to be the curse of the chef.

I just don’t see the reason not to have them. Maybe someone can explain that there are drawbacks. It can’t be price. They are standard issue on many other frame locks across the price range.

My Chef does have lock stick. Not an amount that bothers me but there’s an audible click every time the lock is pushed over. It’s there. Doesn’t keep it from being maybe my favorite knife, but any with an insert I’ve used have no such issue. I just don’t understand the resistance to it.

The chef seems like the one knife where it makes sense not to have an insert because its a salt series. I know people will say that they could probably find a metal insert and screws that wont rust, but with all those small spaces and different metals on metals, it seems like not using an insert was the right call.

[nerdlock]

Yeah. My chef started out with terrible lockstick that thankfully went away. Forgot about the lockstick problem. It seems to be the curse of the chef.

Nice, good thing yours went away. Pretty weird with our mileages...mine is strange in that sometimes, it sticks, and sometimes, it doesn't. That's also why I haven't been using it much lately. I totally forgot about it being a salt hence why it had no lockbar insert, thank you for reminding.

I still love it though, and I'm also hoping for a Vanax variant in the future :D

[DSH007]

Strictly necessary? No probably not. Do I like them.. yes. Voted option one. In theory, I'd prefer them, but I've never actually had any issues with any of my Ti frame locks w/o lockbar inserts..

[dsvirsky]

Completely unnecessary, in my opinion, if the knife was made correctly. Case in point, Chris Reeve Knives has been successfully making and selling Ti framelocks for three decades without needing to add a steel insert.

[Evil D]

They're essential IMO. The nature of a frame lock is such that damaging the lock face can ruin the knife. A lock bar insert can potentially be replaced, making the lock up rebuildable which to me is a really big deal.

[nerdlock]

One thing I completely forgot in support of the "is it necessary" argument, is due to the nature of usage of most Spyderco knives where the user "Spydie-flicks", it may lead to premature wear on the lockbar interface. I know I'm guilty of it with my Slyszs.

[The Meat man]

Hi Conner,

Do you mean for Titan locks?

sal

Hey Sal,

I'm talking about framelocks (R.I.L.). Some have steel inserts so that the lock interface is steel-on-steel, rather than bare titanium on steel.
Lots of people favor the former; I'm curious if that's because it just sounds good on paper, or because it helps to prevent actual problems (such as lock stick, premature lock wear, etc. )

[The Meat man]

They're essential IMO. The nature of a frame lock is such that damaging the lock face can ruin the knife. A lock har insert can potentially be replaced, making the lock up rebuildable which to me is a really big deal.

That's a good point: steel inserts are generally replaceable.

Of course, there's the question of whether or not anyone has ever needed to replace one, but I agree better to have it and not need it than the other way around.

[The Meat man]

Completely unnecessary, in my opinion, if the knife was made correctly. Case in point, Chris Reeve Knives has been successfully making and selling Ti framelocks for three decades without needing to add a steel insert.

I was thinking about CRK when I made this thread. Those knives have been used and abused as you say for decades and I've never heard any complaints about lockface wear. Quite the contrary, as a matter of fact.

[Evil D]

They're essential IMO. The nature of a frame lock is such that damaging the lock face can ruin the knife. A lock har insert can potentially be replaced, making the lock up rebuildable which to me is a really big deal.

That's a good point: steel inserts are generally replaceable.

Of course, there's the question of whether or not anyone has ever needed to replace one, but I agree better to have it and not need it than the other way around.

Maybe not, but there certainly are Ti frame locks that have wore to the point of bottoming out on the other scale. If a steel insert only prevents it then that's a win, but also being able to correct it is such an advancement in my eyes it seems like every frame/liner/compression lock should have replaceable inserts.

[wrdwrght]

I didn’t vote, because I have questions.

I have yet to experience a ruined lock-face. None of my RILs has an insert. My Tusk and Techno2 are at 55% and my SpydieChef is at 80%, but my Sage2 (which I carried exclusively for over a year) is at 95%! :eek:

So, some naive questions.

When a lock-bar reaches 100%, does it want to proceed beyond, say across the space created by a washer? Once the lock-bar finally hits resistance on the opposite “scale”, will the blade remain tight or will it proceed to get vertical play?

If it remains tight, how then is the lock-face ruined?

If lock-rock ensues, how can it occur if the lock-face and the blade no longer rub when deploying, thus reaching a kind of equilibrium?

[FourStringFiend]

If I carried the same knife with no insert every day and planned to only carry it for the rest of my life, it would probably be a concern.
But with the the amount I change what I carry it hasn’t been an issue yet.