Sal - What's next for the Military?

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Evil D
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#101

Post by Evil D »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:05 am
We have six months of winter here. I carry the Military a lot in the winter because it is easy to operate with VERY bulky gloves on. I don’t have any issues with comp locks except for that. Will this Military2 be as easy to use with winter gloves? Would a CBBL or Backlock be?

The Shaman is hard to use with these big insulated work gloves on. The Military is very doable.

It is also worth noting that the huge handle doesn’t look so big with that style of glove on.

Image

Image



This echos why I like the liner lock on THIS model. It's not my favorite lock design but it works so well with gloves, and I suspect that was part of the intended design. I did a job for a while where I was in and out of a -20 degree freezer all day and we wore these heavy wool mittens that were really warm but gave you almost zero tactical feedback so operating a compression lock was all but impossible. I think for the vast many EDC knife users out there this is likely not an issue or something most people even have to deal with, which is probably why the decision to move to a CL was made since it'll be money in the bank and the majority of people will be happy with it. It's a shame for the minority though because there aren't many models with this design feature left.
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Wartstein
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#102

Post by Wartstein »

Evil D wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:46 pm
bearfacedkiller wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:05 am



This echos why I like the liner lock on THIS model. It's not my favorite lock design but it works so well with gloves, and I suspect that was part of the intended design. I did a job for a while where I was in and out of a -20 degree freezer all day and we wore these heavy wool mittens that were really warm but gave you almost zero tactical feedback so operating a compression lock was all but impossible. I think for the vast many EDC knife users out there this is likely not an issue or something most people even have to deal with, which is probably why the decision to move to a CL was made since it'll be money in the bank and the majority of people will be happy with it. It's a shame for the minority though because there aren't many models with this design feature left.

This.

Many in house higher end Spydies with a comp.lock, very few with a linerlock (actually only the Millie?? - perhaps one could now count the Tenacious/Resilience LW in S35VN in)
Not only with gloves, but also with really cold or wet or greasy fingers the linerlock is a lot easier and safer to use as a comp.lock imho. And in hard use more comfortable, since it does not feature that "hotspotty" comp.lock cutout.
And I am quite certain:
Many do like the comp.lock over the linerlock cause they objectively tried both and in their use the comp.lock works better or is more enjoyable.
But there will be also not too few (probably not too much on this forum though) who either tried just crappy linerlocks from other brands (and not a Spyderco quality one), while there are no real crappy comp.locks
Or just did not really try and just heard often enough that the comp.lock is "superior" - when it is just different.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#103

Post by kobold »

For me it is not only the Military, I also like the liner lock on the Sage 1 more than the comp lock on the Sage 5.
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Evil D
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#104

Post by Evil D »

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:19 pm

Many do like the comp.lock over the linerlock cause they objectively tried both and in their use the comp.lock works better or is more enjoyable.
But there will be also not too few (probably not too much on this forum though) who either tried just crappy linerlocks from other brands (and not a Spyderco quality one), while there are no real crappy comp.locks
Or just did not really try and just heard often enough that the comp.lock is "superior" - when it is just different.


I think it's just the fidget factor. Compression Locks are fun, and as much as you and I can agree on the functional advantage of the liner lock, it's just not as fun to fidget with (I must confession that I agree with this part). Spyderco surely see that, and to be fair the CL is a dang fine lock regardless of our preferences, so I get why it's happening. I will most definitely check out the Military 2, but in the future my "gloved work knife" might just be current production Military 1's.


I still think they would continue development on the Button Compression Lock (can I just coin the acronym BCL now?) because it has the fun fidget factor while also being far more user friendly in gloves and it seems like a win-win compromise.
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#105

Post by Bill1170 »

I agree that, until a Military version with a different lock type comes to market that works as well as the original with gloves on, it is imperative that the original version continue to be offered for sale. It is a fantastic knife and the only liner lock folder I ever carry.
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#106

Post by mark greenman »

Back Lock with Boyle Dent (essential as a tactile reference point) can be easily closed wearing even oven mits. In fact, unlocking is the only part of the knife that can operated with oven mitts.

Image

So personally I think the 'can readily be closed with heavy gloves' is already achieved with Spydercos backlock models. Plus if heavy glove model is being optimized, I imagine a wave feature would also greatly simplify opening a knife with heavy gloves on, as gloves greatly reduce thumb dexterity.
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#107

Post by Silcox »

sal wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:16 pm
Hey Vivi,

I guess that's a good question. Eric was working on the 2" version. The original "2" version had a stop-lock and broke at a very high number. Then Eric worked up a "2" version with a Compression lock that he hasn't put into queue. Some minor design mods. One of our forumites, "Fireman" was asking for a Rescue version for which I have a drawing and a plastic model. He wanted a barb wire breaker, which we'e still researching. Baron Mind is asking for a Military with a different handle.

The Military model was a special knife, light and tough with a large blade. Good with gloves to open and close. Something that would be a good back-up for a soldier. I had originally planned to use it a a platform for steel variations, but we ended up making steel variations in many models. We did use it to offer the first CPM blade in production back in the '90's.

We would keep the original Military model in the line even if/when we offer other variation(s). I believe the design meets the original requirement better than other designs. However, newer variations may have a different requirement?

So, Vivi, since you started the thread, let's see what others, and you might want?

sal
My only issue with the Police and OG Military is that the blade length is just slightly above being naturally intuitive

I'm in the Military and am an unarmed combat instructor. The PM2 with the blade thinness of the Police would be the only "improvement" (i.e. variant) I could see as a possible improvement to what is already the best design out there (my opinion). It would make it (even more) lighter, higher penetration value and a bit more wieldy for delicate tasks like having to cut someone's clothes off for First Aid (i.e. the riggers belt/laces/etc.) I've cut smaller trip-flare/field phone wires with the PM2 - but for stuff like barbed wire, you'd need to use a multi-tool in lieu of having a proper wire cutter on-hand. You're all brilliant and could likely engineer a wire cutter on your knives due to the folding action of the knife, but that'd come with some safety issues I'd imagine. As well, it would add to the time-efficiency factor in breaching such obstacles.

Oh, also perhaps something that makes the PM2 a little safer. I know myself and another person who "got bit" by the knife because while it was in our pockets it somehow deployed itself slightly. That said, it was only once in the three years of having it.

Also, I hope all is well and thanks for the quality products
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#108

Post by Wartstein »

Silcox wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:26 am
sal wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:16 pm
.....
Oh, also perhaps something that makes the PM2 a little safer. I know myself and another person who "got bit" by the knife because while it was in our pockets it somehow deployed itself slightly. That said, it was only once in the three years of having it.

Backlock and CBBL folders will be a bit safer in the pocket.

Did you ever consider an Endela (Backlock, about PM2 size lengthwise, but thinner carry and blade, and almost as light as a Manix 2 LW)?
Or the RockJumper?`(Also Backlock, also thinner blade and the wharncliff blade might be great for your use scenario)?
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#109

Post by bearfacedkiller »

Is this where I am supposed to ask for a Maxamet Military again? Maybe 10V or A11 if Maxamet seems out of the question? Or maybe just any new Military? Maybe 4V? Will we see one in magnacut? :D
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#110

Post by MFlovejp »

It’s great to hear that the original Military design will remain available, as honestly there’s not much room for improvement. Sure, there could be the odd CQI here and there but I absolutely love this design. All I want is more availability and more steel options (K390, Magnacut, Z wear all come to mind.) No other changes. Thank you.
Current Carries: Military 4V, Stretch XL Cruwear, Sage 1 CF, Siren Sprint S90V, ZDP Delica
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#111

Post by attila »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:10 am
Is this where I am supposed to ask for a Maxamet Military again? Maybe 10V or A11 if Maxamet seems out of the question? Or maybe just any new Military? Maybe 4V? Will we see one in magnacut? :D
Well said!

I wish there were thumbs-up and high-five buttons for posts.
Have: old S30V Native, HAP40 Endura, ZDP DF2, S110V Manix LW, Cru-wear Para 3, SE H1 DF2, S90V Native 5, K390 Urban, SE Pac Salt, P.I.T.S., XHP Manix LW, SB Caly 3, B70P, PMA11, K03, Kapara, REX 45 Military, 154CM Manix LW, Swick, AEB-L Urban, KC Cruwear Manix, M390 PM2, Mantra 2, CruCarta Shaman, M390 Manix, K390 Police 4, S90V Manix LW, Rex 45 Manix LW, 20CV Manix, Rex 45 Lil’Native, Shaman, C208GP, Cruwear Manix, Cruwear Manix, M4 Chief, Z-max!!!

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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#112

Post by kennethsime »

attila wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:39 pm
bearfacedkiller wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:10 am
Is this where I am supposed to ask for a Maxamet Military again? Maybe 10V or A11 if Maxamet seems out of the question? Or maybe just any new Military? Maybe 4V? Will we see one in magnacut? :D
Well said!

I wish there were thumbs-up and high-five buttons for posts.
Ditto to all of the above. Also, K390 with Green Canvas Micarta. ;-)
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#113

Post by Silcox »

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:41 am
Silcox wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:26 am
sal wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:16 pm
Did you ever consider an Endela (Backlock, about PM2 size lengthwise, but thinner carry and blade, and almost as light as a Manix 2 LW)?
First i've heard of the Endela! Thanks for the heads up but I prefer the compression lock. I'd be interested in seeing something in Delica/Chapparel thickness on a PM2 - There may be short falls in my thinking, but its the only way I could see the PM have any "improvement" (variant)

Thanks for the heads up for the Endela, I may pick one up just to see if what I was thinking would make sense
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#114

Post by Superflex »

Button compression lock and K390 would get my attention.
As much as I want a Millie, I cant get past the frame lock
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#115

Post by Mini2white »

I have many models and have carried one since the ATS34. I would not like to see it change dramatically. I would like to see a serrated available again.
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Wartstein
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#116

Post by Wartstein »

Superflex wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:46 am
Button compression lock and K390 would get my attention.
As much as I want a Millie, I cant get past the frame lock
Almost all Millie models don't have a frame - , but a linerlock.
Did you ever really try the great Millie linerlock?
Doesn't get any better when it comes to ease and comfort of operation imho.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#117

Post by Nuh Nups »

kennethsime wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:25 pm
attila wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:39 pm
bearfacedkiller wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:10 am
Is this where I am supposed to ask for a Maxamet Military again? Maybe 10V or A11 if Maxamet seems out of the question? Or maybe just any new Military? Maybe 4V? Will we see one in magnacut? :D
Well said!

I wish there were thumbs-up and high-five buttons for posts.
Ditto to all of the above. Also, K390 with Green Canvas Micarta. ;-)
Any of these steels would be great!! Seems like it’s been too long since the Military got some attention.
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Silcox
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#118

Post by Silcox »

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:41 am
Silcox wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:26 am
sal wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:16 pm
.....
Oh, also perhaps something that makes the PM2 a little safer. I know myself and another person who "got bit" by the knife because while it was in our pockets it somehow deployed itself slightly. That said, it was only once in the three years of having it.

Backlock and CBBL folders will be a bit safer in the pocket.

Did you ever consider an Endela (Backlock, about PM2 size lengthwise, but thinner carry and blade, and almost as light as a Manix 2 LW)?
Or the RockJumper?`(Also Backlock, also thinner blade and the wharncliff blade might be great for your use scenario)?
I just got the Endela in the mail. In my own personal opinion; the blade is too thick, opening action is too stiff, it has an uncomfortable one hand opening of which I generally blame the backlock for that. I find the Police has the best opening for a backlock - The ergo's on the Police 4 are genius with respect to that

That said, thanks for the heads up on the knife - It gave me more of an idea of what I had in mind
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#119

Post by LetItBleed »

Personally the Military to me is a timeless piece of knife perfectionism. Hands down the best liner lock of any folder, tip down carry where the pocket clip just melts in your hand, multiple grips to use with or without gloves. Easily operated with one hand. Lighy,smooth,contoured. The Military is a masterpiece the way it is. I understand the idea of adding in lock variants but really won’t make the military any better than it is.I’d rather see more steel and scales variants.
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Re: Sal - What's next for the Military?

#120

Post by Wartstein »

LetItBleed wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:08 pm
Personally the Military to me is a timeless piece of knife perfectionism. Hands down the best liner lock of any folder, tip down carry where the pocket clip just melts in your hand, multiple grips to use with or without gloves. Easily operated with one hand. Lighy,smooth,contoured. The Military is a masterpiece the way it is. I understand the idea of adding in lock variants but really won’t make the military any better than it is.I’d rather see more steel and scales variants.
+1
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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