Is it time for an E5/D5?

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araneae
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Is it time for an E5/D5?

#1

Post by araneae »

What do you think, are we ready for an Endura/Delica 5th generation? What would you add or change?

Personally, I would say refine the lock for smoother action like the Rockjumper. I would also make the finger grooves in the handles less pronounced or just eliminate them for a more neutral grip. In this respect, I favor the Para 3 to the D4. The grooves either force a grip style or make your grip less comfortable if your hands don't naturally fit the grooves. Maybe change up the clip for a deeper carry. I know we have seen Sal's rationale for not going there, but at this point, deep carry appears anecdotally to VASTLY be the favored setup. I am not one of those who likes a totally buried knife, but there is a happy compromise out there. I know some hate wire clips, but I would not complain.


Things I don't think you can touch and still call it an E5/D5:
Lock type
Choil addition
Boye dent, our polls have shown most people prefer them or don't care while the minority dislike them.
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#2

Post by The Mastiff »

I don't need any upgrades and I'm plenty happy with my Endura 4. Especially with HAP 40 and now K390. I'd still want to see a Cruwear Endura but that is more general principles rather than any great need. I can do anything within reason with Enduras in VG10, Super Blue, V Toku, HAP 40 and K390. It's amazing what you get with the Endura platform. I have yet to actually wear one out. They seem to last forever.

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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#3

Post by GarageBoy »

I think the d4/e4 are fine for what they are - basic mainstream, pocket knives for the everyman

I'd like to see a more neutral handle on the endura (the front finger groove is a bit restrictive, and feels the same as the delica, even though there's plenty of room on the tail end), and maybe less dead area between the edge and handle, but both are minor
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#4

Post by awa54 »

Refined lock action is never a bad thing (haven't tried a Rockjumper), but that could be a CQI to the D4.

Deep carry would require moving, or removing the lanyard hole (or possibly the 4 position option), that wouldn't hurt my feelings, but would probably cause a major revolt on the forum, plus there are decent aftermarket options there.

I personally find the handle contours of the whole series to be neutral enough that they cause no offense.
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#5

Post by VooDooChild »

I just finally learned how to live with the "points" on the E4, so Im good, but I would still love a different handle option.
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#6

Post by Wartstein »

I am perfectly happy with E4 and D4 as they are, but of course a lock at Native level or even with an internal stop pin would be nice, but not necessary for me.
/ Yes, NO choil, but the great ricasso!
/ And please, no deep carry!!! E4 and D4 are already a good compromise between shallow and deep carry imho.
I am also not sure at all that deep carry generally is "vastly" preferred, especially on longer folders - ?!?
Anyway, for me personally deep carry has only disadvantages (totally subjective of course)
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#7

Post by JakeXman »

What about making the E5/D5 linerless like their salt equivalents? I feel like that has come up as an idea before but I forget who introduced it.
Tenacious G10 PE, Tasman Salt 2 PE, Tasman Salt 2 SE, Yojimbo 2, KJ Endura 4 D.P.S. 15 VG-10, LadyBug K390, TKJ Jester 20CV, UKPK Salt, Crucarta PM2, 204 Sharpmaker
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#8

Post by James Y »

JakeXman wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:16 am
What about making the E5/D5 linerless like their salt equivalents? I feel like that has come up as an idea before but I forget who introduced it.

The original Delicas and Enduras up through the third generation were linerless.

Personally, I like linerless back lock knives. However, I’m betting that a lot of people would NOT want the Delica and Endura to become linerless. Especially if the E5/D5 were to replace the E4/D4.

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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#9

Post by wrdwrght »

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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#10

Post by Kels73 »

I would like to see an improved back lock like the one found on the Native 5 that is less prone to vertical shifting. I would also appreciate improved ergonomics.
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#11

Post by kennethsime »

araneae wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:19 am
Things I don't think you can touch and still call it an E5/D5:
Lock type
Choil addition
Boye dent, our polls have shown most people prefer them or don't care while the minority dislike them.
I would argue a bit on the second point. For example, the original Police model, and the current stainless Police model, lack a choil, but the modern Police 4 features one.

I'd personally love to see a 50/50 choil introduced to the Delica and Endura, much like the Byrd Meadowlark and Cara Cara.

I do agree that the "points" style handle is less neutral, and thus less accommodating of varying hand shapes & sizes. The "palm swell," as featured on the Stretch and Rock Jumper, is much more comfortable for me. However, it also results in a larger handle, which takes up more real estate - a fair trade off, for me.

Truth be told though, it may just be the Delica and Endura aren't for me. The Stretch is a better knife for me in pretty much every way. I'd like to pick up a Leaf Jumper when those come out - that might as well be my own personal Delica 5, though it does lack a choil.

I don't think a deep carry pocket clip is necessary, although they certainly are growing on me.
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#12

Post by TomAiello »

I'm not an Endura or Delica guy, so I'm not sure an upgrade would tempt me. The things that get me to buy those models are upgraded steels (ZDP-189 and K390, for example).

I think that a DLC K390 variant would be more interesting to me than a revision of the other features.

I think they are pretty close to perfect for their role in the line up as is, though. I'm not sure that changes would make them either perform or sell better in their intended uses.
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#13

Post by araneae »

kennethsime wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:27 pm
araneae wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:19 am
Things I don't think you can touch and still call it an E5/D5:
Lock type
Choil addition
Boye dent, our polls have shown most people prefer them or don't care while the minority dislike them.
I would argue a bit on the second point. For example, the original Police model, and the current stainless Police model, lack a choil, but the modern Police 4 features one.

I'd personally love to see a 50/50 choil introduced to the Delica and Endura, much like the Byrd Meadowlark and Cara Cara.

I do agree that the "points" style handle is less neutral, and thus less accommodating of varying hand shapes & sizes. The "palm swell," as featured on the Stretch and Rock Jumper, is much more comfortable for me. However, it also results in a larger handle, which takes up more real estate - a fair trade off, for me.

Truth be told though, it may just be the Delica and Endura aren't for me. The Stretch is a better knife for me in pretty much every way. I'd like to pick up a Leaf Jumper when those come out - that might as well be my own personal Delica 5, though it does lack a choil.

I don't think a deep carry pocket clip is necessary, although they certainly are growing on me.
I think just knocking down the points would be huge. I have ground down a couple Delica handles, it doesn't look great doing it yourself. It does increase comfort though. I actually find the swell on the Rockjumper to be too much. I like the slimmer Delica handle, just not the bumps.
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#14

Post by Wartstein »

kennethsime wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:27 pm
araneae wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:19 am
I would argue a bit on the second point. For example, the original Police model, and the current stainless Police model, lack a choil, but the modern Police 4 features one.

I'd personally love to see a 50/50 choil introduced to the Delica and Endura, much like the Byrd Meadowlark and Cara Cara.
....

In all friendliness, but I hope this won´t ever happen.

Spyderco has already a ton of offerings WITH a choil, so it would be great if at least some endura-style-ricasso models would remain in the lineup!

For one this is always better for people who rarely use the choil, since the hand i closer to the edge with the endura-style ricasso
And then the ricasso is perfectly suited for choking up anyway, and obviously many do this - for me choking up there even gives me more control than many dedicated choils do.

So in a way the ricasso is the best of both worlds...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#15

Post by Wartstein »

araneae wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:57 am
kennethsime wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:27 pm
araneae wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:19 am
...
......
I think just knocking down the points would be huge. I have ground down a couple Delica handles, it doesn't look great doing it yourself. It does increase comfort though. I actually find the swell on the Rockjumper to be too much. I like the slimmer Delica handle, just not the bumps.
It is a bit like the "choil / ricasso- thing" discussed above:

There are already quite a few "neutral handle" models out there, and their number is growing.
Would be great if the Endura-family would remain as it is for people who actually like the grooves!

I have L to XL hands, and no issues at all with the grooves (and points between them), not in Delica, Endela or Endura
In fact I really like them - make the knife a bit more stable in hand, and work against "rolling" of the handle.

And Endura without the grooves would not be an Endura anymore and for me certainly loose something...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#16

Post by awa54 »

So, if many here feel like a smooth handle profile, deep cary clip and choil are needed innovations in a Delica/Endura sized folder, then shouldn't you just be asking to have an FRN Caly 3/3.5 that runs in parallel to the Delica family?

I, and quite a few others here *don't* want a completely changed Delica (which would cease to be the Delica we know and love), but I would definitely like to see a more affordable "utility grade" Caly (though I slightly prefer the nearly identical UKPK's form factor to the Caly).
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#17

Post by Sumdumguy »

It is definitely time.

Make the handles more like the Rock Jumper's.

If it had a better handle, I'm sure I'd love it.

Linerless? No thanks. That would take me out of the buying pool.
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#18

Post by rangefinder »

awa54 wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:29 am
So, if many here feel like a smooth handle profile, deep cary clip and choil are needed innovations in a Delica/Endura sized folder, then shouldn't you just be asking to have an FRN Caly 3/3.5 that runs in parallel to the Delica family?

I, and quite a few others here *don't* want a completely changed Delica (which would cease to be the Delica we know and love), but I would definitely like to see a more affordable "utility grade" Caly (though I slightly prefer the nearly identical UKPK's form factor to the Caly).

There's a big difference in the blade shape of the Delica/Endura vs. Calypso. For me, blade shape is at least as important as handle shape.

I actually like the Delica handle profile, so I wouldn't want to see that get radically changed. And I don't care about deep carry and/or wire clips. If some future 5th gen model switched to the wire clip and as a result lost the tip-down carry option, that would be a complete deal breaker for me.

But I have grown to like having a choil on a knife. So although I have three Delicas, they don't get carried much any more and a Byrd Harrier 2 has replaced the Delica for me. The Byrd is pretty much the "Delica with a choil" I've wanted. And I can easily get it with G10 handles.

The main thing that I think needs to get changed on the Delica/Endura platform is a wider choice of steels. And that's already being done, both in production models and dealer exclusives. (DLT's recent OD green + DLC Cruwear combo was *very* tempting, but in the end I passed on it since I knew I would rarely carry it.)

As far as changing to linerless construction, people could just get a Salt model right now. The tip is not as acute as the Delica/Endura, but apparently it's not too hard to change that. I've seen pics here on the forum of Salt models that have been ground to have a finer tip.
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#19

Post by JRinFL »

Would this be the wrong place to ask Spyderco to bring back the D3? :D ;)
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Re: Is it time for an E5/D5?

#20

Post by Wartstein »

rangefinder wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:08 am
awa54 wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:29 am
...
But I have grown to like having a choil on a knife. So although I have three Delicas, they don't get carried much any more and a Byrd Harrier 2 has replaced the Delica for me. The Byrd is pretty much the "Delica with a choil" I've wanted. And I can easily get it with G10 handles.

....

So you DO have a Byrd Harrier anyway if you want a choil in that size category... and the Native, the Sage, the Para 3, the Chaparral... ;)

Additionally to what I´ve said above already (that the ricasso allows the hand to be closer to the edge when the knife is grabbed on the actual handle AND (at least for me) a ricasso is better than many choils for choking up):
Giving the Delica a choil would also mean to give it one of the Para 3 problems: A handle that is too short for a good four finger grip, cause the handle part of the choil eats up space. Choking up would get mandatory for my handsize.
So this would ruin the great and - for a small knife - generous Delica ergos: Enough space on the actual handle, plus a ricasso for choking up.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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