Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

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Sharp Guy
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#141

Post by Sharp Guy »

I didn't realize this thread had gone on for 7 pages (now 8). I saw in the bombshell thread that Sal said they're working on a FRN Shaman. That'll be interesting for sure

I'll come back and read the other 6 pages when I have more time :)
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#142

Post by thewoodpecker »

Cricket Bite wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 3:44 pm
thewoodpecker wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 2:09 pm
sal wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:17 am
Naturally, we listen and we try to please. Eric has plans for an FRN scale for the Shaman. I've designed two follow up models; 1) a gutted version fr lighter weight and the other has no finger choil.

sal
What does the gutted version entail? Very interested in seeing both!
I would imagine linerless.
Would love to see a linerless back lock version...not sure how linerless Comp lock would work unless it is like the P3 LW.
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#143

Post by nerdlock »

I would imagine that if a backlock, choilless Shaman would ever be made, it would look similar to Cold Steel's AD-10.
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#144

Post by Fireman »

Back to the OP
I don’t want to change Sal’s mind on his commitment to American jobs. Thank you Sal.
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#145

Post by sal »

Hi Woodpecker,

Not enough room for a back-lock. I used the Compression both for it's strength and simplicity, but because it is not in the line of the blade which permits a wider blade.

Thanx Jonathon.

We try,

sal
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#146

Post by Evil D »

Paraguy wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:14 pm
My intension of making this thread was not to troll or to cause fights. I'm sorry if it came off that way. :(


Eh, I'll be honest it did seem that way to me, or at the very least you didn't really seem like you were open to having your mind changed. Sometimes when people ask questions like this they're actually looking for real justification, but your post(s) just seemed like you wanted to debate everyones' reasons for the knife costing what it does. This is one of those "you may not like the answer, but that doesn't make it less true" sort of deals. Many of the reasons you've been given are probably spot on whether you accept them or not, so having your mind changed is really something you need to allow to happen more than we need to change it for you.

People will say "why is a Sebenza a $450 knife?" and someone will tell them all about the machining and tolerances and explain that those extra manufacturing steps add up to a more expensive knife, and those people will still say the knife isn't worth $450 even when they've just been given the exact reason that the knife costs what it costs, and that's where a person is entitled to their own opinion, but opinions are only true to the individual and aren't facts.
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#147

Post by Paraguy »

nerdlock wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 7:46 pm
I would imagine that if a backlock, choilless Shaman would ever be made, it would look similar to Cold Steel's AD-10.
Is there a choiless manix? If not there needs to be one.
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#148

Post by Paraguy »

Evil D wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 2:21 am
Paraguy wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:14 pm
My intension of making this thread was not to troll or to cause fights. I'm sorry if it came off that way. :(


Eh, I'll be honest it did seem that way to me, or at the very least you didn't really seem like you were open to having your mind changed. Sometimes when people ask questions like this they're actually looking for real justification, but your post(s) just seemed like you wanted to debate everyones' reasons for the knife costing what it does. This is one of those "you may not like the answer, but that doesn't make it less true" sort of deals. Many of the reasons you've been given are probably spot on whether you accept them or not, so having your mind changed is really something you need to allow to happen more than we need to change it for you.

People will say "why is a Sebenza a $450 knife?" and someone will tell them all about the machining and tolerances and explain that those extra manufacturing steps add up to a more expensive knife, and those people will still say the knife isn't worth $450 even when they've just been given the exact reason that the knife costs what it costs, and that's where a person is entitled to their own opinion, but opinions are only true to the individual and aren't facts.
I actually genuinely had no idea what I was getting myself into. (I wasn't aware of the reddit trend and its etiquette) I was and still am open to my mind being changed and my mind was changed to some degree. When I challenged other peoples view points it was because I was either not thoroughly convinced of their stated opinion or was confused about what someone was trying to argue. I think that the fact that I did ask questions and didn't just say, "I'm right and you're wrong" and that i didn't straw~man anyones point of view makes it quite evident that the purpose of this thread wasn't to demean anyone or their point of view. However I will admit that some of my comments came off as accusatory~ that was not my intention :( . I will try to be more precise in my speech. Unfortunately it's really hard to maintain an online discussion like this and keep it from becoming toxic, most likely because of the physical detachment and dehumanization. We must all try our best.
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#149

Post by Wartstein »

Paraguy wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:21 am
nerdlock wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 7:46 pm
...
Is there a choiless manix? If not there needs to be one.

There absolutely should be one... but I think the way the CBBL is implementet in the Manix requires some kind of cutout in the blade...

There will be a choilless Shaman though. :)
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-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#150

Post by Paraguy »

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:04 am
Paraguy wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:21 am
nerdlock wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 7:46 pm
...
Is there a choiless manix? If not there needs to be one.

There absolutely should be one... but I think the way the CBBL is implementet in the Manix requires some kind of cutout in the blade...

There will be a choilless Shaman though. :)
The handle on the Manix perfect to me and i rarely use the choil. It is so big in the pocket with little blade length.
"Some call me...Tim?"
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#151

Post by Mrj »

I’m late to this thread but all my cents, I smoked em. So I’ll pay the price for American made blades. From an American grown business. Just wait. I’m in the metal industry and the price of steel is going up. So hold on. I wouldn’t complain. I bet the price goes up.
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#152

Post by JRinFL »

MRj is right, just about everything is going to see a jump in price. The shutdowns will have a very long tail.
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#153

Post by Matus »

Ok, my perspective that nobody asked for ...

First of all - if sal says that Spyderco prices their knives based on cost, I trust him.

What surprises me is the rather minor price difference between basic S30V and limited releases. The limited releases sell like hot cakes - so very obviously are not overpriced for the market. Yet S30V remains easy to get (so my impression). So my impression is - the interest is there at the current price, but it would appear that many would prefer to see the knife in a different steel and potentially different G10 color or even better micarta.
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#154

Post by skeeg11 »

Matus wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:06 pm
Ok, my perspective that nobody asked for ...

First of all - if sal says that Spyderco prices their knives based on cost, I trust him.

Hear! Hear!

Prices are what they are regardless of whining. If something doesn't sell at a given price point and is not successful, it should be discontinued. This sometimes happens to the dismay of many who in hindsight wished they had paid the price before it was discontinued instead of whining. ;)
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#155

Post by abbazaba »

Paraguy wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:21 am
Is there a choiless manix? If not there needs to be one.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73611&p=1140036&hil ... g#p1140036

Lots of upgraded Tenacious options since that post...
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#156

Post by Paraguy »

abbazaba wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:33 pm
Paraguy wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:21 am
Is there a choiless manix? If not there needs to be one.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73611&p=1140036&hil ... g#p1140036

Lots of upgraded Tenacious options since that post...
Except the egos on the manix are a thousand times better than that on the tenacious for me anyway.
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#157

Post by JohnDoe99 »

Evil D wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 2:21 am
Paraguy wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:14 pm
My intension of making this thread was not to troll or to cause fights. I'm sorry if it came off that way. :(


Eh, I'll be honest it did seem that way to me, or at the very least you didn't really seem like you were open to having your mind changed. Sometimes when people ask questions like this they're actually looking for real justification, but your post(s) just seemed like you wanted to debate everyones' reasons for the knife costing what it does. This is one of those "you may not like the answer, but that doesn't make it less true" sort of deals. Many of the reasons you've been given are probably spot on whether you accept them or not, so having your mind changed is really something you need to allow to happen more than we need to change it for you.

People will say "why is a Sebenza a $450 knife?" and someone will tell them all about the machining and tolerances and explain that those extra manufacturing steps add up to a more expensive knife, and those people will still say the knife isn't worth $450 even when they've just been given the exact reason that the knife costs what it costs, and that's where a person is entitled to their own opinion, but opinions are only true to the individual and aren't facts.
A Sebenza costs $450 because it has Chris Reeve's name on it. The same is true for pretty much every "custom" maker. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#158

Post by Evil D »

JohnDoe99 wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:40 pm
Evil D wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 2:21 am
Paraguy wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:14 pm
My intension of making this thread was not to troll or to cause fights. I'm sorry if it came off that way. :(


Eh, I'll be honest it did seem that way to me, or at the very least you didn't really seem like you were open to having your mind changed. Sometimes when people ask questions like this they're actually looking for real justification, but your post(s) just seemed like you wanted to debate everyones' reasons for the knife costing what it does. This is one of those "you may not like the answer, but that doesn't make it less true" sort of deals. Many of the reasons you've been given are probably spot on whether you accept them or not, so having your mind changed is really something you need to allow to happen more than we need to change it for you.

People will say "why is a Sebenza a $450 knife?" and someone will tell them all about the machining and tolerances and explain that those extra manufacturing steps add up to a more expensive knife, and those people will still say the knife isn't worth $450 even when they've just been given the exact reason that the knife costs what it costs, and that's where a person is entitled to their own opinion, but opinions are only true to the individual and aren't facts.
A Sebenza costs $450 because it has Chris Reeve's name on it. The same is true for pretty much every "custom" maker. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.


See the second paragraph of that post lol. Yes I'm sure the name helps but show me a company machining knives to their tolerances that sells them for less.
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Paraguy
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#159

Post by Paraguy »

sal wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:17 am
Naturally, we listen and we try to please. Eric has plans for an FRN scale for the Shaman. I've designed two follow up models; 1) a gutted version fr lighter weight and the other has no finger choil.

sal
Any news on this?
"Some call me...Tim?"
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Re: Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

#160

Post by Wartstein »

Paraguy wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:12 pm
abbazaba wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:33 pm
Paraguy wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:21 am
Is there a choiless manix? If not there needs to be one.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73611&p=1140036&hil ... g#p1140036

Lots of upgraded Tenacious options since that post...
Except the egos on the manix are a thousand times better than that on the tenacious for me anyway.
Double post
Last edited by Wartstein on Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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