Change my mind: the Shaman costs too much

[DSH007]

Thanks everyone for your input! My intention of making this thread wasn't to say that the Shaman costs too much and anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Personally I still wouldn't pay 210 for the base level Shaman, but this thread has helped me to understand why some people would and why the Shaman costs what it costs.

-Paraguy

Except, that's literally the title of this thread.. :confused:

[DSH007]

I typically hesitate to comment on such subjective topics.. "value" is absolutely one of those. But I do have a bit of experience with the Shaman, so I will try to express some of my opinions..

I thought it was quite expensive at first glance also. Looking at the Shaman on paper does not express how solidly built it is vs. the PM2 (because this seems to be the model we're comparing it against here), how much added material there is vs the PM2 or how much comfort the contoured scales add vs the PM2. Many people have defended these qualities and I think it's been generally accepted at this point that they all contribute to the added cost of the Shaman.. so I will not elaborate, except to say that I find the Shaman to be unequivocally more impressive of a knife than the PM2.

I was very interested in the Shaman the second I saw it, but like some, I also balked at the price. I put off buying one for a long time, largely.. ok, totally.. because of the price. You'll get no argument from me that the Shaman costs a good chunk of money. I get it. One night in October of 2018 (haha definitely had to check my knife spreadsheet for the date..), while drinking a few bears, I stumbled upon the Shaman on sale at Cabela's for $129.88 and bought it instantly. I heard later this was actually a pricing error and not a "sale" on Cabela's part, but they did honor the price. I paid $129.88 for my Shaman. When it arrived, I remember being blown away by the quality, thinking "ok wow, I definitely would have paid $188 (the cost in 2018) for this knife!!" To this day, I feel like I may as well have stolen that knife at $130. It remains one of my best knife purchases.. Subjective or not, I don't think I'll get any argument that the Shaman is a great value at $130!

Getting a knife in hand really makes the picture of "value" a lot clearer, I think. On paper, yes the Shaman is a pricy knife and I had some issue looking past the cost. Having finally handled one though, the value became immediately apparent to me. Would I like it to be cheaper?.. sure. Personally though, I do feel the value is there, even at $210. My typical response when asked "what is something worth?" is "whatever someone's willing to pay for it." That's going to look a little different for everyone and I think that's ok.

Just my subjective opinion, for whatever it may be worth..

[Sharp Guy]

Sounds like they need to raise the price of the PM2s!

Change my mind!

[TkoK83Spy]

Thanks everyone for your input! My intention of making this thread wasn't to say that the Shaman costs too much and anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Personally I still wouldn't pay 210 for the base level Shaman, but this thread has helped me to understand why some people would and why the Shaman costs what it costs.

-Paraguy

Except, that's literally the title of this thread.. :confused:

Hahahah, yeaaaaaaaaaaa...I'm almost at a loss for words. Shaman > PM2 as a knife, which in turn is also reflected in price.

[sal]

Hi Paraguy,

Interesting how this thread caught fire in one day. There are a few things about Spyderco that you may not see.

1. We use a spread sheet to determine pricing. Margins are relatively fixed. Each model is carefully priced based on cost.
2. We feel that to charge as much as the market will bear is biting the hand that feeds you.
3. When we priced the Shaman for the first intro, we did not have the actual costs for everything. Things like the handle ended up costing far more than we had originally thought, so the intro model really wasn't as profitable as we need to operate. We had no choice but to raise the price.
4. Eric and I do not get royalties for our designs.
5. R&D costs are in the "burden". Not possible to isolate R%D as some models, like the Shaman , took a long time from concept to market. Years. Some models take one or two prototypes and some take 10 or 12. Whatever it takes to bring the design to it's best.

Hope that helps.

sal

[Wartstein]

Hi Paraguy,

Interesting how this thread caught fire in one day. There are a few things about Spyderco that you may not see.

1. We use a spread sheet to determine pricing. Margins are relatively fixed. Each model is carefully priced based on cost.
2. We feel that to charge as much as the market will bear is biting the hand that feeds you.
3. When we priced the Shaman for the first intro, we did not have the actual costs for everything. Things like the handle ended up costing far more than we had originally thought, so the intro model really wasn't as profitable as we need to operate. We had no choice but to raise the price.
4. Eric and I do not get royalties for our designs.
5. R&D costs are in the "burden". Not possible to isolate R%D as some models, like the Shaman , took a long time from concept to market. Years. Some models take one or two prototypes and some take 10 or 12. Whatever it takes to bring the design to it's best.

Hope that helps.

sal

Thanks, Sal, this is really interesting.

Never read this being explained in such detail.

[Paraguy]

Thanks everyone for your input! My intention of making this thread wasn't to say that the Shaman costs too much and anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Personally I still wouldn't pay 210 for the base level Shaman, but this thread has helped me to understand why some people would and why the Shaman costs what it costs.

-Paraguy

Except, that's literally the title of this thread.. :confused:

Hahahah, yeaaaaaaaaaaa...I'm almost at a loss for words. Shaman > PM2 as a knife, which in turn is also reflected in price.

That was a poor choice of words on my part. What I mean is I didn't intent to shove my personal opinion down anyones throat. Personally, PERSONALLY, I would still think the base model costs too much for me. But I understand that this is subjective.

[Paraguy]

Thanks everyone for your input! My intention of making this thread wasn't to say that the Shaman costs too much and anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Personally I still wouldn't pay 210 for the base level Shaman, but this thread has helped me to understand why some people would and why the Shaman costs what it costs.

-Paraguy

Except, that's literally the title of this thread.. :confused:

I should have said it costs too much for ME... But then again... It wouldn't have gotten as many clicks... :D

[Paraguy]

Hi Paraguy,

Interesting how this thread caught fire in one day. There are a few things about Spyderco that you may not see.

1. We use a spread sheet to determine pricing. Margins are relatively fixed. Each model is carefully priced based on cost.
2. We feel that to charge as much as the market will bear is biting the hand that feeds you.
3. When we priced the Shaman for the first intro, we did not have the actual costs for everything. Things like the handle ended up costing far more than we had originally thought, so the intro model really wasn't as profitable as we need to operate. We had no choice but to raise the price.
4. Eric and I do not get royalties for our designs.
5. R&D costs are in the "burden". Not possible to isolate R%D as some models, like the Shaman , took a long time from concept to market. Years. Some models take one or two prototypes and some take 10 or 12. Whatever it takes to bring the design to it's best.

Hope that helps.

sal

This is very helpful. I always wondered why the price when up.

[Paraguy]

Hi Paraguy,

Interesting how this thread caught fire in one day. There are a few things about Spyderco that you may not see.

1. We use a spread sheet to determine pricing. Margins are relatively fixed. Each model is carefully priced based on cost.
2. We feel that to charge as much as the market will bear is biting the hand that feeds you.
3. When we priced the Shaman for the first intro, we did not have the actual costs for everything. Things like the handle ended up costing far more than we had originally thought, so the intro model really wasn't as profitable as we need to operate. We had no choice but to raise the price.
4. Eric and I do not get royalties for our designs.
5. R&D costs are in the "burden". Not possible to isolate R%D as some models, like the Shaman , took a long time from concept to market. Years. Some models take one or two prototypes and some take 10 or 12. Whatever it takes to bring the design to it's best.

Hope that helps.

sal

My guess as to why it caught on so fast is the vexatious name I gave it. :D
Sorry guys...

[Paraguy]

In conclusion: No I don't think Spyderco is price gouging and I'm not judging anyone who likes the Shaman. Not every knife is for everyone.

[Fireman]

There could be the budget model called the Shame as in it’s a shame you couldn’t get the Shaman made out of cheaper materials and made in cheapestan :D

[Paraguy]

There could be the budget model called the Shame as in it’s a shame you couldn’t get the Shaman made out of cheaper materials and made in cheapestan :D

HAHAHA :)

[soc_monki]

Wont ever change your mind, but I have 4 Shamans, and they are my favorite knives. Better than the PM2 and Manix hands down IMO. Thicker blade, but still plenty capable of slicing efficiently. I put them up there with my Hinderer XM-18 and 24. They are that good IMO.

But if you don't like them, you don't like them. No one forcing you to. I feel the price is fair. I wish I would have picked a couple up when they were $150, but it's only money and I can't take it with me.

[M Sea]

Thanks everyone for your input! My intention of making this thread wasn't to say that the Shaman costs too much and anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Personally I still wouldn't pay 210 for the base level Shaman, but this thread has helped me to understand why some people would and why the Shaman costs what it costs.

-Paraguy

Except, that's literally the title of this thread.. :confused:

Ha,was just thinking the same thing.

[CPM-Greg]

Shaman - It is hard to price SEXY.

CPM-Greg

[SpyderGrill]

*EDITED - Unnecessary and unwelcome commentary. - TazKristi*

[sal]

Naturally, we listen and we try to please. Eric has plans for an FRN scale for the Shaman. I've designed two follow up models; 1) a gutted version fr lighter weight and the other has no finger choil.

sal

[Matus]

Sal, you are just getting our hopes high for the next release :p

It is very honorable to base your pricing on your costs. I worked for a while for a consulting company that specializes in pricing - man they would love to make a business case for you :D

One serious question - what is it that makes the handles on the Shaman expensive? As a layman when it comes to such production processes - all I see is a flat scale with a larger-than-average chamfering of the edges.

[Matus]

Double post