High Performance Delica Excitement

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Wartstein
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#241

Post by Wartstein »

Mushroom wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:48 am
I’ve never understood where this mentality that knife collectors don’t use their knives comes from?

There is genuinely a sense of elitism that’s so often conflated with being strictly a “knife user.” It’s almost like that collection of a dozen plus knives that stays at home on a daily basis is actually just a figment of imagination.

Most people posting on this forum are collectors… I don’t care how often you use the knives, you also collect them. (This isn’t being said to anyone specific, just the collectors who are in denial)

If the strictly knife users who don’t collect knives want in on this knife, buy it before the collectors. It really is that simple. No need for nepotism programs. If the collectors beat them to it, they should be thanking the collectors for constantly helping drive up sales.

Once this Delica is released, I anticipate the flood gates will open and we’ll see requests for every model Spyderco produces being made to similar specs. I also see potential for it to start an industry wide revelation about focusing on cutting geometry opposed to just steel type all the time.

I think I was pretty precise in my wording:

"Collectors who don't use their knives" -

so a clearly defined subgroup of collectors.
Of course folks like me are "collectors" too. That's why I mostly say "my collection/array of users" when talking about, well, my collection of Spydercos.

All I am saying is that if there is a run of let's say 1200 hp Delicas also Sals Intention will probably be that people mostly judge them by their performance, not so much by their "uniqueness" without using them.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#242

Post by Evil D »

I'm not saying collecting isn't "using", I'm saying it defeats the purpose of a design that is produced solely for the purpose of exploring performance. You can enjoy it all you want but it's never being used for it's intended purpose and I just think it's a bit of a shame. I do see the value in preserving things, I see it in a lot of hobbies especially with vintage cars, there are cars around that I enjoy seeing at car shows and I can only do that because someone cared for them and stored them away instead of using them to their full potential. I understand, but it still also sucks. I have some BNIB knives I'm sure someone would love to be using right now. I get it. It still sucks. It is what it is, but it still sucks.
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#243

Post by ZrowsN1s »

I don't care if people buy them to look at them, collect them, flip them, or use them. I think most of us would prefer those that want to use be able to get them. But, in the 1000ft view, especially in a pilot run; having more demand than supply is a very good thing. I selfishly hope there aren't enough to go around because I want to see this concept expanded not just to other models, but especially to other steels.

After getting over my disappointment of this not being a K390 knife, I have come to see that VG-10 is the right choice for proof of concept. A test of pure geometry. After the geometry is proven however I want to see how super steels perform with this geometry (which was my original intent in wanting a 'performance' knife). That won't happen unless this sells well. So bring on the collectors, flippers, safe queens, and enthusiastic users one and all.
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL :bug-red

"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"Ghost hunters scope the edge." -sal
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#244

Post by awa54 »

Sharp24/7 wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:58 am
I’m in. If the concept is popular it’d be cool to see a second run in a simple steel like super blue or aeb-l. Reading through old Cliff Stamp posts got me curious about simpler steels, and how a really stable steel ground thin and with a low edge angle would stack up against modern PM steels. Seems like this would be a logical extension of the initial experiment. Assuming I understood the goal correctly, always possible I didn’t.

"Simpler*" steels like Blue Super that can attain relatively high hardness without completely losing shock resistance would likely be excellent for a blade like what I'm imagining this will be. I'd guess medium toughness tool steels could work really well too.

*Blue Super is the highest alloy member of the Hitachi Blue Paper steel family, with the White Paper steels being even less complex:

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelg ... hrn=1&gm=0

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelg ... hrn=1&gm=0
-David

still more knives than sharpening stones...
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#245

Post by Tristan_david2001 »

Super blue*
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#246

Post by aicolainen »

ZrowsN1s wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:29 pm
I don't care if people buy them to look at them, collect them, flip them, or use them. I think most of us would prefer those that want to use be able to get them. But, in the 1000ft view, especially in a pilot run; having more demand than supply is a very good thing. I selfishly hope there aren't enough to go around because I want to see this concept expanded not just to other models, but especially to other steels.

After getting over my disappointment of this not being a K390 knife, I have come to see that VG-10 is the right choice for proof of concept. A test of pure geometry. After the geometry is proven however I want to see how super steels perform with this geometry (which was my original intent in wanting a 'performance' knife). That won't happen unless this sells well. So bring on the collectors, flippers, safe queens, and enthusiastic users one and all.
This.

For Spyderco to get a sense of the demand for such a knife/concept, all kinds of demand needs to be accounted for, not only demand from from a sub group of not so well defined "real users".
We might be frustrated with the (non user) collectors when we miss out on a knife, but they're an important part of the knife economics and in the big picture they do us more good than harm.
Like ZrowsN1s I'd want nothing more than see this model sell like hotcakes, even if it means not getting one for myself. That's a small tradeoff for an increased likelihood of seeing more availability of HHG models in the future.

As always, I expect some collectors and scalpers will buy any new variant that comes along and it will be no different this time. But the fact that it's "just" another Delica and "just" another Seki Spyderco in FRN and VG-10 might put a little bit of a lid on the demand. So there is definitively real and valuable insight for Spyderco to gain by probing the full market response, and not just the enthusiastic user segment.
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#247

Post by Manixguy@1994 »

aicolainen wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:34 am
ZrowsN1s wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:29 pm
I don't care if people buy them to look at them, collect them, flip them, or use them. I think most of us would prefer those that want to use be able to get them. But, in the 1000ft view, especially in a pilot run; having more demand than supply is a very good thing. I selfishly hope there aren't enough to go around because I want to see this concept expanded not just to other models, but especially to other steels.

After getting over my disappointment of this not being a K390 knife, I have come to see that VG-10 is the right choice for proof of concept. A test of pure geometry. After the geometry is proven however I want to see how super steels perform with this geometry (which was my original intent in wanting a 'performance' knife). That won't happen unless this sells well. So bring on the collectors, flippers, safe queens, and enthusiastic users one and all.
This.

For Spyderco to get a sense of the demand for such a knife/concept, all kinds of demand needs to be accounted for, not only demand from from a sub group of not so well defined "real users".
We might be frustrated with the (non user) collectors when we miss out on a knife, but they're an important part of the knife economics and in the big picture they do us more good than harm.
Like ZrowsN1s I'd want nothing more than see this model sell like hotcakes, even if it means not getting one for myself. That's a small tradeoff for an increased likelihood of seeing more availability of HHG models in the future.

As always, I expect some collectors and scalpers will buy any new variant that comes along and it will be no different this time. But the fact that it's "just" another Delica and "just" another Seki Spyderco in FRN and VG-10 might put a little bit of a lid on the demand. So there is definitively real and valuable insight for Spyderco to gain by probing the full market response, and not just the enthusiastic user segment.
Very well said and completely agree , Spyderco has to look at the big picture not just a small segment to satisfy selective wants and needs . MG2
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Wartstein
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#248

Post by Wartstein »

aicolainen wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:34 am
ZrowsN1s wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:29 pm
..... That won't happen unless this sells well. So bring on the collectors, flippers, safe queens, and enthusiastic users one and all.
This.

For Spyderco to get a sense of the demand for such a knife/concept, all kinds of demand needs to be accounted for, not only demand from from a sub group of not so well defined "real users".
...
Manixguy@1994 wrote:
aicolainen wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:34 am
ZrowsN1s wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:29 pm
...
Very well said and completely agree , Spyderco has to look at the big picture not just a small segment to satisfy selective wants and needs . MG2
Good points, but I feel like there is probably need for more clarification what others and me meant (presumably, concerning the "others" ;) ):

- Of course I don´t want to see a group of customers ("just" collectors, non users of their or this particular knives/knife,...) excluded from getting the knife!
- Compared to some folks out there I am not a real "knife user" myself (in the sense of "all the time", or "professionally", I just do use them all and as often as I can) - so who am I to judge who should be allowed to get a certain knife and how to enjoy it?!
- Completely agree that if the hhg Delica sells well overall, this will increase the chances of seeing more batches or even more models with hhg grind

- I just assume that this is a "special case" and it would be a good thing - also for Spyderco - if the percentage of those who really want to and will try that special grind is high.
Of course with any new feature, steel, model it is nice for Spyderco to get feedbacks how they work, no doubt.
But I somehow feel with this particular model / grind this is even more the case.
More like not only HOW the high performance hhg works "in the field", but kind of also IF it works. If it can withstand the various real life uses people put on their knives.
And so Spyderco will not only decide by the sales numbers if this is an option to be further kept and developed, but also by how it actually works for knife users.
Don´t know if I make any sense - hard for me to put this in English. I just feel that with this knife the whole point is (even) more than with other Spydies that it gets used and tested.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#249

Post by Tristan_david2001 »

While the delica isn’t my favorite blade shape, I’m highly anticipating seeing this blade.
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#250

Post by Coastal »

To me, this “experiment” is much more important than Spyderco trying out a new steel or a new design. I hope, hope, hope it performs well enough and is durable enough that Spyderco might change the only features I consider weaknesses of their knives in general: thick blades with thick edge geometry.

I guess that’s what everyone’s hoping!
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#251

Post by sethwm »

I’m seeing this as a short sighted win win for me. If it does well there will be more. If it doesn’t that means I get one easily without fighting the website. Obviously I hope it does well because long term more is better.
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#252

Post by aicolainen »

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:55 am
Good points, but I feel like there is probably need for more clarification what others and me meant (presumably, concerning the "others" ;) ):

- Of course I don´t want to see a group of customers ("just" collectors, non users of their or this particular knives/knife,...) excluded from getting the knife!
- Compared to some folks out there I am not a real "knife user" myself (in the sense of "all the time", or "professionally", I just do use them all and as often as I can) - so who am I to judge who should be allowed to get a certain knife and how to enjoy it?!
- Completely agree that if the hhg Delica sells well overall, this will increase the chances of seeing more batches or even more models with hhg grind

- I just assume that this is a "special case" and it would be a good thing - also for Spyderco - if the percentage of those who really want to and will try that special grind is high.
Of course with any new feature, steel, model it is nice for Spyderco to get feedbacks how they work, no doubt.
But I somehow feel with this particular model / grind this is even more the case.
More like not only HOW the high performance hhg works "in the field", but kind of also IF it works. If it can withstand the various real life uses people put on their knives.
And so Spyderco will not only decide by the sales numbers if this is an option to be further kept and developed, but also by how it actually works for knife users.
Don´t know if I make any sense - hard for me to put this in English. I just feel that with this knife the whole point is (even) more than with other Spydies that it gets used and tested.
My comment wasn't directed at anyone specific, and I while I understand where the idea is coming from I don't think we need to worry too much or overthink this. Someone on this forum will get their hands on them, for sure. And if it sells out in a minute, there will probably be more in the future - so feedback from the real use and edge afis will come in. Maybe not a bunch from the first run, but eventually they will have a good sense on how this turned out.
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#253

Post by Evil D »

I hope the end result here is something comparable to this knife. Everyone needs to experience a slicer like this without having to resort to paying for a regrind (which was not cheap).


Image

Because let me tell ya, that knife cuts like nothing you've ever cut with unless you have something like it.

It's like comparing a Mustang GT to a Dodge Challenger Demon in acceleration. You wouldn't say a 480hp Mustang is slow compared to the average commuter car, but the Demon is just on a whole other level of acceleration, it's basically a production built drag car and a blade that's ground like this is purpose built for something more than cut cutting something into smaller pieces. I understand everyone who's let down that this knife won't be K390 or is "just VG10" but there's something else to appreciate here and I guess you just get that or you don't. Hopefully this concept will catch on and maybe we'll see sprint runs of other models in other steels like this someday.
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#254

Post by Brock O Lee »

Evil D wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:56 am
Everyone needs to experience a slicer like this without having to resort to paying for a regrind (which was not cheap).
Because let me tell ya, that knife cuts like nothing you've ever cut with unless you have something like it.
Agree 100%.

And I will add, it sharpens quicker than anything you've ever sharpened!
Hans

Favourite Spydies: Military, PM2, Shaman, UKPK
Others: Victorinox Pioneer, CRK L Sebenza 31, CRK L Inkosi
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#255

Post by Evil D »

Brock O Lee wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:18 am
Evil D wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:56 am
Everyone needs to experience a slicer like this without having to resort to paying for a regrind (which was not cheap).
Because let me tell ya, that knife cuts like nothing you've ever cut with unless you have something like it.
Agree 100%.

And I will add, it sharpens quicker than anything you've ever sharpened!


It absolutely does, and with a steel like S110V it makes it a much more enjoyable experience overall. You can reprofile it on Sharpmaker diamond rods in about 30 passes.
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Wartstein
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#256

Post by Wartstein »

Brock O Lee wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:18 am
Evil D wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:56 am
Agree 100%.

And I will add, it sharpens quicker than anything you've ever sharpened!

Yes, I can just reiterate what I said already:

I am actually really happy that on this particular model they went with a quick and easy to sharpen steel and so quick and easy to play with edge angles and also quick and easy to repair chips or rolls when this "playing" went too far... ;)

Only perhaps even better suited Seki steel I personally could think of would be LC200N - not for its corrosion resistance but in this case for its very high toughness - if one goes by Larrins charts a lot higher than on VG10.

But then: In my experience VG10 never felt exactly "un-tough".
Last edited by Wartstein on Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#257

Post by sethwm »

Folks know what angle the edge will be? Hoping I can still just use my sharpmaker
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#258

Post by sal »

Hi Sethwm,

We'll know when we get them in. Yes, I am impatiently waiting s well. I think I'll try to profile to 10 DPS on the Galley V. While not for everyone (We have to pay attention to the genera market and not just the Afi's and edge junky's here), A thin edge and "after-edge" is very nice.

sal
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#259

Post by ZrowsN1s »

sal wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:50 pm
Hi Sethwm,

We'll know when we get them in. Yes, I am impatiently waiting s well. I think I'll try to profile to 10 DPS on the Galley V. While not for everyone (We have to pay attention to the genera market and not just the Afi's and edge junky's here), A thin edge and "after-edge" is very nice.

sal
I imagine I'll pick up a few of these if I can, and one of them will definitely get the same treatment my kitchen knives do. Reprofiled to 10dps on my guided system, and touched up with the Galley V.
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL :bug-red

"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"Ghost hunters scope the edge." -sal
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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement

#260

Post by Evil D »

sethwm wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 8:03 am
Folks know what angle the edge will be? Hoping I can still just use my sharpmaker

I don't see any reason why you couldn't. I don't recall any word of this knife also coming with a drastically different edge angle, just a thinner blade grind.
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