Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

[Spyderman91]

I will say anything can be used as a lethal weapon if you are creative...

This reminds me Musashi's famous duel that he showed up 3 hours late to with only a "Carved spare oar", and won.

"The blood drained from Kojiro’s face as Musashi slowly stood up in the boat. The insolence, it was unheard of. This was no way for a Samurai to behave! To arrive so late was bad enough, but to arrive like this… Unshaven, filthy, in dishevelled clothing and with no retinue but a beggarly old fisherman; Kojiro felt the insult to his honour most keenly, and the wrath that had been slowly building all morning boiled over. He trembled with rage and held out one hand to the sword bearer who rushed up to present him with his great no-dachi.

The huge sword flashed in the sun as Kojiro charged down the beach toward his opponent. He focussed his anger to a fine point, which ran through his arms and hands and settled at the cruel tip of the blade. In his mind, where a moment ago there had been great anger, now there was silence. But what was this? Musashi leapt into the surf and dashed to the left, but he drew no blade; his only weapon was a wooden bokken, similar in size and reach to Kojiro’s sword. Kojiro faltered for a split second.

What could this mean? The arrogance of the man who would challenge the great Kojiro with a wooden practice sword was incomprehensible. He turned to follow Musashi and dived in with a great sweep of his blade. The insolent man ducked just in time to avoid the blow. The no-dachi swept only centimetres above his head. A little cloud of black hair floated in the still air.

Then Musashi was in underneath his guard. The bokken was rising, but the huge no-dachi was in the hands of a master, and Kojiro did not back away. He brought his sword whistling down upon his opponent… but Musashi was gone. He had side-stepped to the right, and his bokken hit flesh. Kojiro’s breath went out of him, and his next blow went wild.

The wooden sword dealt him a stunning blow on the side of the head and in the moment that he staggered, his enemy’s weapon smashed into his left side with incredible force. He felt his ribs crack, followed by a terrible, sharp pain deep inside his chest. He couldn’t breathe, and the world swam before his eyes.
The officials, staff and servants watched in horror as Sasaki Kojiro toppled forward onto the sand. The engagement had been over in seconds".

[Spyderman91]

Also....

I will say a knife fight, or any street fight is the the last thing you want.

As the old saying goes:

"The winner of a knife fight goes to the ER, and the loser get's buried".

As a fellow Californian I do carry a knife for many reasons, and it's nice to know I have it as a backup in sticky situations, but it is an absolute last resort. Just like a firearm you never pull it out unless you're going to use it. Your aggressor should never see the knife, only feel it and that is assuming they don't have a gun, or put you in a compromising position where you don't have time to react.

I recommend eating healthy, staying in shape, and even taking some martial arts classes if you want to gain confidence / knowledge of self defense techniques. No need to turn into a Hollywood fight scene, a kick in the balls (for a male attacker), finger to the eye, or a punch in the throat also works pretty effectively.

[Karl_H]

A knife is really a weapon of last resort.

If you are afraid of opportunistic crime, there are so many better deterrents (mace, stun guns, sticks, flashlights, kubutans, avoid traveling alone, unarmed combat training, guns with non-lethal ammo, etc).

[The Mastiff]

guns with non-lethal ammo

Huh? There really is no non lethal ammo I'm aware of. In addition use of a gun with any kind of ammo is considered the same. It's lethal force.

We are not talking about riot control with rubber ball and baton rounds. They are very lethal potentially anyways. Pick your ammo carefully but never try getting into ammo not intended for self defense. Warning shots and trying to shoot the person in the leg, or gun out of his hand is unrealistic and in the case of warning shots not legal or recommended.

[vivi]

Last time I had a knife pulled on me, it was small, maybe a 2.5 - 3" blade.

I had the upper hand. I had my 5" Street Bowie on me.

What did I do?

Kept my distance and dialed 911, then went to court the next day to file a restraining order.

I'm good on ever getting into a knife fight.

[Raylas]

The Kimber Pepperblaster is illegal in CA.

Blackjacks/saps are also illegal in CA.

Jim

Didn't know they were, don't know CA laws, don't live in CA.

Cane or walking stick it is, then!

Honestly that's the best choice of the bunch, anyhow. I carry a Canemasters cane!

Blackjacks and Saps are illegal almost everywhere. Check your local laws before buying. But they sure are neat to have and can be used against an intruder in your home legally probably!!! I doubt they are illegal to own, but again, check your local laws before buying.

I like the canes that CaneMasters have, and plan to buy one - one of these days, but I do wonder about the survivability of them to be used like a baseball bat. In Filipino martial arts some of the guys/gals have kamagong sticks, which is a hardwood found in the Philippines. They have been known to shatter. YMMV.

I know nothing about hickory, walnut, etc. My favorite bat(if I had one) would be made out of aluminum.

Yes they are, but not everywhere, so I figured I'd toss them in, couldn't hurt.

Hickory is incredibly strong and flexible. If you used it in the baseball bat manner, it would stand up to it, I can promise you that, it's more flexible than Kamagong, but lighter.

That said, if you were able to break it by striking an attacker? That guy's gonna be in the hospital for a while, so you've probably stopped him from hurting you successfully, which is the goal here.

You can get, I will note, very stout aluminim canes from cold steel, too..... Again, I own some. The 1911 cane they sell is basically a warhammer if you look at the way it hefts. But Cold Steel, if you use one? The "proof" videos WILL be used against you in court. Hence I suggest Canemasters, which are not advertised with videos of them shattering cinderblocks.

[The Mastiff]

Blackjacks and saps are pretty lethal if you are adrenalized and uncork on somebody's skull. Care was needed in use. They even took them away from police and prison guards back in the 70's or 80's at the latest. We even had a special pocket for the things.

If you watch old movies you see it was thought the cops and CO's could just tap a guy on the head, knock him out and an hour later everything was fine. We know better now. There really isn't anything that isn't potentially lethal even things like CS or Pepper spray and tasers/stun guns. That is really why training is needed IMO. Any primate ( us humans) can bash someone or stab without teaching them how. Knowing when to do it and especially what to say during and after is easily as important now in our present society even where self defense is accepted as a right.

[twinboysdad]

I hear collar bone is the target of choice with saps/blacjacks when non lethal is your goal. Let’s be honest- a shovel hook fist to the jaw that drops an opponent into concrete is potentially lethal force. I think your mindset has to be start nothing, allow egos an easy out, but if forced to defend, stop the threat efficiently and efficaciously. You could go to jail for a multitude of outcomes, worry less about that and more about surviving the moment

[The Mastiff]

I hear collar bone is the target of choice with saps/blacjacks when non lethal is your goal

Potentially, yes. The collar bone was one of several off limits areas to us using impact weapons in NC DOC. They wanted lower body strikes when possible though knee and groin were also not to be targeted. The shins were suggested targets because of the pain receptors which we have all experienced with kicks to the shins but honestly I have seen that not work out so well.

[James Y]

I hear collar bone is the target of choice with saps/blacjacks when non lethal is your goal

Potentially, yes. The collar bone was one of several off limits areas to us using impact weapons in NC DOC. They wanted lower body strikes when possible though knee and groin were also not to be targeted. The shins were suggested targets because of the pain receptors which we have all experienced with kicks to the shins but honestly I have seen that not work out so well.

IMO, in a life or death SD situation, it’s much more effective to do something that will affect an aggressor’s body’s mechanical functioning; something that doesn’t rely on affecting his pain receptors. There are some people who are extremely pain-resistant, whether due to drugs, alcohol, mental illness, extreme anger, adrenalin, physical bulk, etc. I’ve seen a guy take a full-on kick to the groin, and due to adrenalin he still had enough left to beat the guy who kicked him there to a pulp. Several seconds afterwards, he stumbled away and collapsed in pain.

How is this relevant to the thread? Well, for example, if you do something that messes up the functioning of the attacker’s fingers/hand, he won’t be able to use that hand effectively, whether he feels it or not. Same thing if you blow out his knee with a side thrusting/stomping kick at an angle the knee wasn’t meant to go in; he won’t be able to chase you down very well. In some cases, a man can still be KO’d even if he isn’t feeling any pain, because the KO comes from the brain being jarred and moving/impacting the inside of the skull.

And if the danger in a SD situation is serious enough to warrant pulling a knife, even a small one, then it already IS a life or death situation, or has just escalated into one.

Anyway, just my .02...

Jim

[JRinFL]

guns with non-lethal ammo

Huh? There really is no non lethal ammo I'm aware of. In addition use of a gun with any kind of ammo is considered the same. It's lethal force.

We are not talking about riot control with rubber ball and baton rounds. They are very lethal potentially anyways. Pick your ammo carefully but never try getting into ammo not intended for self defense. Warning shots and trying to shoot the person in the leg, or gun out of his hand is unrealistic and in the case of warning shots not legal or recommended.

In some places in Europe and Russia you can buy non-lethal (really LESS lethal) firearms that cannot fire standard ammo.

[ZrowsN1s]

I hear collar bone is the target of choice with saps/blacjacks when non lethal is your goal

Potentially, yes. The collar bone was one of several off limits areas to us using impact weapons in NC DOC. They wanted lower body strikes when possible though knee and groin were also not to be targeted. The shins were suggested targets because of the pain receptors which we have all experienced with kicks to the shins but honestly I have seen that not work out so well.

IMO, in a life or death SD situation, it’s much more effective to do something that will affect an aggressor’s body’s mechanical functioning; something that doesn’t rely on affecting his pain receptors. There are some people who are extremely pain-resistant, whether due to drugs, alcohol, mental illness, extreme anger, adrenalin, physical bulk, etc. I’ve seen a guy take a full-on kick to the groin, and due to adrenalin he still had enough left to beat the guy who kicked him there to a pulp. Several seconds afterwards, he stumbled away and collapsed in pain.

..........

One of the things I like most about MJ's MBC/CBC is the focus on stopping an opponent by targeting their mobility in a way that does not rely on pain compliance. And though disabling someone's limbs is a brutal thing not to be taken lightly, it is non lethal and can be an easier justifed use of force then shooting someone.