Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

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Knife1
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Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby Knife1 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:49 pm

California is a total mess with homelessness and it really reflects everywhere you go. A few weeks ago a transient was clearly just looking for an easy target to beat up. Luckily I was not alone so he changed his mind, nor was he armed, but reports on the news of transients stabbing people to death are not uncommon anymore. Living in LA county a CCW is pretty much impossible to get unless you're a democrat donor or Hollywood actor, all people who supposedly are against firearms ironically.
Therefore, it got me thinking; say the transient hadn't changed his mind and he had a knife, realistically speaking would something like a ladybug, pochi, or cricket be useful? I have no real martial arts training and even less edged weapons training. For me, what self defense knife would be recommended, and why?

Thanks

Spydergirl88
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby Spydergirl88 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:09 pm

Run away.
Self defense training could help but you're dealing with paranoid schizophrenics on drugs with nothing to lose. They tend to be hard to predict what they will do in a fight.
Move to a rural area?

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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby spoonrobot » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:09 pm

I do not think fighting an assailant armed with a knife, while you yourself are armed with a ladybug, pochi, or cricket is something to entertain. Except for the most contrived imagined scenarios, I think running away would be the #1 option. FWIW, when I can't carry a gun, I carry pepper spray and limit my time in that area. Food for thought.

Knife1
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby Knife1 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:15 pm

Right, running away would be a good option but the place was a parking garage with no other exit so it got me thinking that many times flight is not an option, so there's only fight left.
I believe that all of California has ridiculous CCW processes where nothing qualifies as "justifiable cause " for a CCW, so it's a defacto ban on CCWs.

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Sharp Guy
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby Sharp Guy » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:22 pm

Spydergirl88 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:09 pm
Run away.
Yep! Using a knife (or even a gun) would be a last resort. I guess if I had no other choice but to pull a tiny knife out I'd probably just stick a thumb or something in their eye and use my fists and legs until I could get away
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby VooDooChild » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:31 pm

Never get into a knife fight. Run away.

A knife is good when the other person has nothing. It loses to a gun, it loses to a hammer or big stick if the person with those things knows what theyre doing.

Honest advice.
1. Take up running. Cant hurt you if they cant catch you.
2. Take self defense and martial arts classes.
Its not that an untrained person with a knife cant be dangerous, but training is more valuable than relying on a weapon with no training in how to use it or handle that kind of situation.
sal wrote:
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aaronkb
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby aaronkb » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:39 pm

Knife1 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:49 pm
California is a total mess with homelessness and it really reflects everywhere you go. A few weeks ago a transient was clearly just looking for an easy target to beat up. Luckily I was not alone so he changed his mind, nor was he armed, but reports on the news of transients stabbing people to death are not uncommon anymore. Living in LA county a CCW is pretty much impossible to get unless you're a democrat donor or Hollywood actor, all people who supposedly are against firearms ironically.
Therefore, it got me thinking; say the transient hadn't changed his mind and he had a knife, realistically speaking would something like a ladybug, pochi, or cricket be useful? I have no real martial arts training and even less edged weapons training. For me, what self defense knife would be recommended, and why?

Thanks
Hi! I have about 13 years of training in various forms of self defense and fighting arts, traditional and non-traditional. I’ve assistant taught a few of them.

I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND YOU CARRY ANY KNIFE FOR SELF DEFENSE - knives require a great deal of skill to use effectively and you can make the situation a lot worse by trying to bring a knife into it when you don’t know what you’re doing. I carry a knife for work (not as a weapon) and even with all my training, I’ve been in self-defense situations and forgot I even had a knife on me in the heat of the moment because the bulk of my training didn’t involve using one.

Either get some serious training in armed and unarmed self-defense, or get some pepper spray (and learn about how to use it effectively).

Again, DO NOT GET A KNIFE FOR SELF DEFENSE IF YOU DONT HAVE SERIOUS TRAINING.

Just. Don’t.

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ladybug93
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby ladybug93 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:52 pm

i agree with everyone saying to run. when someone has nothing to lose and you're just a target of opportunity, forget about shame and beat feet. you don't want to get tangled up with someone like that and, even if you win, you lose way too much. in my opinion, the only reason to engage is to protect someone else that can't protect themselves. even then, i would want something with reach like a cane or a stick just to keep them away.

edit: oh, and whatever you decide, don't pull a knife on someone without training first.

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sal
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby sal » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:06 pm

Hi Knife1,

Is the Byrna legal in LA?

sal

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Danke
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby Danke » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:06 pm

Parking garage with just one exit. Never seen that before.

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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby koenigsegg » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:33 pm

Only way a knife can win is intimidation
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby MFlovejp » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:48 pm

The brain is the most important defense. Use it to avoid bad situations, and to get yourself out of them. Getting in to a knife fight with a homeless person is pure fantasy- I hope that you don’t feel this will ever happen to you because that’s not a healthy mindset to have when out and about (in my opinion.)

I’ve spent time in some pretty bad parts of big cities and never needed more than an observant and confident mindset to keep myself safe.

Edit: I also work with people suffering some pretty intense mental health crises. My hospital does not issue us weapons, just psychological training and some meds, and I’ve never wished I had a knife on me in those situations either. That’s with forced proximity mind you, small rooms and confirmed violent people.
Last edited by MFlovejp on Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby tbdoc4kids » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:49 pm

Pepper spray and run. If you are in good shape, you can still run your opponent to exhaustion unless they have a gun or bow.

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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby Naperville » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:58 pm

I've dabbled in 6 different edged weapon martial arts, have a large DVD collection of the arts that I've studied and review tape all of the time. How much is it on my mind? All the time. Morning, Noon, Night and even in my Dreams

That is the thing with using knives. You have to practice, and use them all of the time, for you to be able to deploy them under pressure. I am not saying that you cannot do it, I've done it, but it is not the same thing as taking up knitting, you must live it. It is going to be messy.

OK, now what is the largest folder or fixed blade that you can legally carry? Carry that knife. You can use a 1/2 inch knife blade, but I'm willing to bet the law allows for 2.5 inch to 3 inch, so use that, IF that is what the law allows.

Under pressure, Fixed is better than a Folder, but folders do work too.

To start off, I suggest you look at videos on YouTube of knife fights, self defense, etc. You should get training, but in a pinch, practicing what you see in a video is close enough and better than nothing at all. When you have time, you should seek out martial arts training with a knife at an escrima, arnis or kalis school. Buy and collect DVDs of the methods of training. Then practice.

If you intend to thrust, you need a point on the knife.

There may be 12 or more different strikes with a knife that are possible. A horizontal slash and thrust, left-to-right, and right-to-left. Upward and downward strikes. And finally an "X" pattern, the diagonals. You need to defend and attack on these lines.

I suggest looking at the Spyderco Yojimbo, Yojumbo, Native, or Native Chief in the legal carry size.

I'm 60+ and I'm not running, so I plan on it getting very messy.
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby jdw » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:07 pm

koenigsegg wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:33 pm
Only way a knife can win is intimidation

Or complete surprise.

tbdoc4kids wrote: Pepper spray and run. If you are in good shape, you can still run your opponent to exhaustion unless they have a gun or bow.
This. Unless you have legitimate training in knife fighting then run like hell. You are better off locating the nearest large, blunt object than defending yourself with a knife.
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby Menipo » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:10 pm

I'll add another reason to convince you to NEVER CARRY A KNIFE FOR SELF DEFENSE even if you have training to do so: the legal side.

If you carry a knife and it is used by you or the attacker to cause harm to the other, your lawyer is going to have a hard time (and you other even worse). For the police and for the judge there was a fight, the other was not armed and you were. And someone got dead or wounded with YOUR knife.

The attacker could say, for instance, that he approached you to ask you for some coins and you took out the knife and suddenly attacked him without saying a word. He had to defend himself and he had to stab you with your own knife ... He was not carrying a lethal weapon. You were.
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby ZrowsN1s » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:14 pm

I love my fellow forumites, but just once I'd like to see a thread on knives for self defense that wasn't plastered with some variation of "You should just run". It's not helpful advise in regards to, if I have to use a knife in self defense what is a good knife. Avoiding the situation is ANY rational persons plan A, so what's plan B?

While you could use a tiny knife like a ladybug, manbug or dragonfly, they can be force multipliers, inflict pain, superficial wounds, and can help you in a fight, it's not ideal at all. I would have to have no other option.

Aside from strongly recommending some training and practice, even video training from Emerson combat systems, Michael Janich's MBC/CBC, or Shivworks. If you want to use a knife for self defense I would recommend a dedicated self defense knife. Spyderco makes many of them, that are suited to different styles and skill levels. You will need to do some research and reflection to decide what works best for you, should you choose a knife as your weapon of last resort.

Not an exhaustive list but some to consider:
Delica or Endura, there are training knives available for these which is a big bonus.

Matriarch, a waved knife that gives fast deployment, and a blade shape that even an untrained person could do damage with blindly flailing about.

Karahawk Karambit, finger ring for extra retention, hawkbill/claw shape blade thats function is easily understood.

Yojimbo, optimized for deep cutting.

P'Kal, made for the reverse edge in grip with wave opener.

There are more out there, little temperance, and others. You might end up having to go with something like the Karahawk over blade length restrictions in L.A..

I'm going to again strongly recommend training, you can absolutely make a situation worse by bringing a weapon into the equation when you don't know how to use it. But then again, I can't imagine being attacked with deadly force and having your back against the wall with no way to defend yourself and no way to escape getting any worse. In that situation I'd rather have a weapon training or not.
Last edited by ZrowsN1s on Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Naperville
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby Naperville » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:16 pm

For those who carry knives and may end up using them in self defense, I suggest the following organizations for self defense insurance:

USCCA,
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/attorn ... e=Illinois

CCW Safe,
https://ccwsafe.com/

US Law Shield,
https://www.uslawshield.com/
I support the 2nd Amendment Organizations of GOA, NRA, FPC, SAF, and "Knife Rights" and you should too!
Support https://tunnel2towers.org

Spydergirl88
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby Spydergirl88 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:22 pm

Another thing to keep in mind is that homeless people often wear multiple layers of clothing even in the summer... A knife will get caught up in that. It's not worth it to engage. Run away.

James Y
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Re: Small Folders Okay Gor Self Defense?

Postby James Y » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:23 pm

tbdoc4kids wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:49 pm
Pepper spray and run. If you are in good shape, you can still run your opponent to exhaustion unless they have a gun or bow.

Running is always good advice, but much better is awareness and avoidance altogether. If you’re out walking and you notice an individual (or 2 or more people) up ahead (or behind you) that give you a bad feeling, don’t continue on towards them, but go the opposite way, before you get too close to them. If you get a gut feeling, don’t ignore it for fear of looking like a fool. MANY crime victims have stated after the fact: “I had a bad feeling about it but figured I was being paranoid and ignored my gut instinct. Now I wish I’d listened to that little voice that was telling me to get away from that situation.”

Also, someone who is aware and confident is less likely to become a target in the first place. But ignorantly or knowingly walking headlong into a dicey but still avoidable situation is not confidence, it’s stupidity (sorry, there’s no other word for it).

Another thing about running (and many people overlook this fact): There is no guarantee you can outrun an attacker. I don’t know about homeless people, but (for example), there are many young, athletic gang members who can run much faster than most people, even many fit people, especially if their target is middle-aged or older. Many regularly outrun and outclimb cops. If you have more than one pursuer, the odds of making a clean escape on foot are not good, unless you got a very good head start on them and they decide not to bother. Just because somebody is a criminal doesn’t mean they’re out of shape.

Jim
Last edited by James Y on Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.


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