Do we do people disservice?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Matus
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#21

Post by Matus »

I have been asked to advice friends or family members about kitchen knives on many occasions, pocket knives not so much. But I would not sent an unsuspecting and inexperienced person to some super steel. Something like a Delica in VG10 or similar would most likely be the recommendation for a general EDC knife.
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#22

Post by Bill1170 »

I agree that a forgiving blade steel knife is best for knife newbs. It should be stainless, reasonable to sharpen, and decently tough.

One young friend never sharpened his work folder and kept losing/replacing it with new cheap ones. I stopped him losing them by gifting a Stretch and impressing him with the knowledge that this was a $100 knife. He still has it four years later, doesn’t pry with the tip, and carries it constantly. He was able to establish a new mindset and that made all the difference. Occasionally I sharpen it for him. He’s careful with it because he’s a good man who appreciates quality tools.
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#23

Post by Doc Dan »

I actually have come to like H1 for recommending to those who do not care or do not know anything about knives and only want to use a pull through sharpener or something at home. In plain edge it holds an edge like AUS-8, which is a lot better than 420J or 420HC or 1.4110. It is super easy to sharpen and it will never, ever rust on them. I mean, they can toss such a knife in a tool box and forget it. When time to sharpen, it is simple and easy. BD1 or BD1N are my second choices as they are super easy to sharpen, but not as easy as H1 plain edge.

I have had a number of women whose kitchen knives also are so dull they would not cut melted butter. They will use a pull through sharpener but never something like a Sharpmaker or even a guided system, especially not those. The same is true for many men and pocket knives. So, H1 can be sharpened on the bottom of a mug.

There is a reason pull through sharpeners are so popular. Stores will have a whole section devoted to them, sometimes more. Sporting goods stores market them from all of the major sharpener makers, and the branded sharpeners like Winchester, Browning, etc. At Walmart and other big retailers, not on the sporting goods section, but the kitchen section as well, has a lot of space devoted to these sharpeners. Why? They are simple and easy to use.

So, I have been rethinking.
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RustyIron
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#24

Post by RustyIron »

Doc Dan wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:59 am
Any thoughts? Do we do a disservice to others with recommending knives that are beyond the ability or desire of others to sharpen? Would it be better to recommend something easier and then if they are interested they can move up?

I had all my thoughts typed out, but the act of typing made me reflect upon my position, and I ended up deleting everything and starting over. Thank you for helping me achieve clarity.

=-=-=-=-=-=

For a newby, it doesn't matter if we guide them toward a Spyderco Viele Phoenix, a Spyderco Grasshopper, or one of those tacticool knives straight from the slave labor camp in the People's Republic of China. If our friend doesn't have a sharpening plan, then any of the knives will soon be equal--only suitable for spreading warm butter on a saltine cracker.

The BEST advice we can give a new knife enthusiast is to help them devise a plan to sharpen whatever knife they choose. As knife geeks, we all have our preferred methods and tools. But what can we honestly recommend that is affordable, easy to use, and will put a good edge on just about any knife? THE SHARPMAKER!

The ninja, the chef, the gardener, the construction worker, and the executive assistant all carry different knives, but the one thing they have in common is the need to put a good edge on their knife. And THAT is the lesson we need to teach newbies.

I'm thinking specifically of my niece's boyfriend. He carries a Brand X knife that's perfectly fine. He likes it, which is more important than anything else. It doesn't have a great edge--or more precisely, it doesn't have an edge I'd be happy with. Maybe for his birthday or Christmas, Santa will bring him a Sharpmaker.

Anyway, that's my new position. There are a LOT of cool knives out there, but a Sharpmaker will allow them to bond with whatever they choose, so they can enjoy it for many years to come.
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#25

Post by skeeg11 »

Sound advise. I've always been of a similar mindset. I discourage people who have tried a knife of mine and ask about buying a good (expensive) knife not to do so if I think they are a relative newby. Rather, I suggest that they instead take that money and invest in good sharpening equipment and learn how to use it first. Nobody takes my advise................well, maybe a couple.
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#26

Post by Josh Crutchley »

Thinking back to when I first joined the forum I asked about which "high-end steels" to get first. Everyone encouraged me to try one of the easier to sharpen steels before jumping to S110v or Maxamet. I took the advice and bought a Cru-wear Manix 2 that is an awesome knife for beginner or seasoned user. I eventually bought the S110v Manix and hate to sharpen it. If I would have got the S110v first it may have pushed me away from high end steels luckily I was already a full blown steel junkie.
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#27

Post by Joshua J. »

Spyderco needs to start making Disposable Blade Folders.
OLFA has fantastic steel in blades that cost pennies a piece and they have been the industrial standard box cutters for probably half a century now.
Any other attempts at producing an industrial box cutter that I have seen have been direct imitations.

At this point you either have to be willing to say that the original design was as close to practically perfect as a tool can get, or it's a tool design that is ripe for innovation.
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#28

Post by curlyhairedboy »

I generally meet any knife recommendation questions with a question in return - what are you trying to cut?

That usually leads to a more productive discussion where I can tailor any recommendations to their needs. And they usually come to me for sharpening anyway....
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#29

Post by Pickmansmodel82 »

Being the “knife guy” in my family/friends group I get asked a fair amount. I’ve suggested VG-10 delicas several times. But other times it’s more I know they carry some kind of knife that needs some tlc and sharpening. I honestly think that does more for people. Show them my routine, with a healthy dose of “I’m a mildly obsessive knife guy, so here’s a simpler way to do it with pretty good results”
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#30

Post by Mr Blonde »

I also usually recommend something in VG-10, unless he/she has their heart set on a particular design that comes in a different steel. I always mention sharpening kits, but in the end I'm usually the one that does all the sharpening. Sometimes the knife comes back in a really rough shape. And in those cases I'm very happy to have recommended VG10.;)
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#31

Post by S-3 ranch »

Yes most definitely it’s a disservice why buy a beginner a expensive nearly impossible knife to sharpen? Spyderco offers the Byrd line , great beginners knives, cheap and very effective and easy to figure out how the basic system works and gives them practice sharpening
A expensive top line knife is hard enough for 90% of none steel nerds to sharpen, it’s a cruel joke and waste of time & money :confused:
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#32

Post by Chleiti »

I definitely wish I'd started learning to sharpen earlier. I finally got a Sharpmaker this spring after a couple years of buying nicer knives- I do have a couple beat up old Gerbers that are good for practicing but I'm still too nervous to work on my Spydercos for now, I'm afraid I'm going to mess up the blades.
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#33

Post by marty_bill_ »

Personally it's not as much about the steel as it is the sharpening. Murry Carter has videos where he sharpens and shaves with a butter knife and a spoon! Learning to sharpen i think has to come from the individual. There's plenty on YT to learn from. Shawn and Michael are the 2 I've learned the most from.
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#34

Post by ykspydiefan »

Helping people to meet their needs is good. Helping them get in over their heads is not so good. That's my opinion on most things. When it comes to sharpening I have emailed History Channel, pitching, The Great American Sharpening Show. I would like to see a program where contestants are given a sharpening system, and an object to sharpen and then battle it out. Test on various mediums and winner takes all. Forged in Fire is fun to watch in a way, but the popularity of PM Steel has obsoleted the forge for me.

I do not think it is too bold to say that every house in the world has a knife in it. I would think the sharpening show would be interesting to more people than just me. But, there are a lot of dull knives out there, so I may be wrong.

When friends ask me to suggest a folder I point them to the Tenacious. Good ergos, easy to sharpen, feels expensive until you figure out what an expensive knife really is.
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#35

Post by T.J. »

If a non knife person wants a knife, I recommend a SAK. Super useful and super easy to sharpen. When they’re ready to advance, I’d turn them onto a Spyderco.
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#36

Post by yablanowitz »

Since most of the people I interact with daily should require adult supervision to be within 10 feet of a sharp object, I simply don't suggest knives.
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#37

Post by SG89 »

yablanowitz wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:03 pm
Since most of the people I interact with daily should require adult supervision to be within 10 feet of a sharp object, I simply don't suggest knives.
Exactly.
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#38

Post by ChrisinHove »

yablanowitz wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:03 pm
Since most of the people I interact with daily should require adult supervision to be within 10 feet of a sharp object, I simply don't suggest knives.
Hah! Quite so!
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#39

Post by aicolainen »

It's not my impression that a lot of people ask for advice anyhow, and I don't think that improves the outcome either.

I've been that average (knife) person for most of my life, and while it's true that affordable knives with poor edge retention is easier to sharpen in most cases, I think the real disservice is to steer people toward these knives.
Unfortunately we live in a world of disposable goods, and I believe that's part of the reason why sharpening is a skill in decline. If there's not a lot invested in a certain object, the threshold to replace it rather than maintain it is rather low among the average consumer these days.
If an average person looking for a new knife is lucky enough to know someone on this forum, and smart enough to ask for advice - please guide this person toward a price point and quality that would feel like a bit of an investment for this person. This in itself would increase the motivation to care for and maintain the knife, and I think motivation is the real key here. It could very well be a steel that is fairly easy to sharpen, but it shouldn't be cheap and it shouldn't feel cheap. That's the advice I would have wanted from one of you, cause eventually that's what led me down the path to explore sharpening.
For an average person the biggest quality indicators is initial sharpness and how long it stays sharp, so in addition to making the actual purchase hurt a little, I think fairly good edge retention is better for the outcome (if we want more knife nerds) than absolute ease of sharpening.
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Re: Do we do people disservice?

#40

Post by Evil D »

I had another thought on this thread that's basically the opposite. Do we sometimes sell people short by trying to hold them back from higher end steels?

An example, my best friend is a sort of guinea pig for me. I've given him a couple knives specifically to see how the knife holds up. He's the kind of guy who's definitely a knife user but not at all a knife junkie, he has no idea about what steel he's using or why it would be better than the next, he just knows if it works for his needs or not. In that way he's a great source for a 100% unbiased opinion because he's not at all influenced by the internet hype that all steels get. At the same time I've also been cautious about what I give him, because for one I'll be fixing the edge damage so I'm a little hesitant to hand him something in Maxamet, but I guess if I'm honest there's a weird little egotistical part of me that feels like he isn't ready or isn't worthy of the higher end stuff and that feels kinda crappy to admit. I sorta feel like I've had this very long journey cutting my teeth and figuring out all these steels and learning what works and the idea of letting a "newbie" just jump right into some K390/Maxamet feels like he's cheating. That make sense or am I just crazy?
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