I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
advan
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:50 pm

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby advan » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:17 am

First issue I see is using boiling water. I know you are trying to melt the loctite a bit but you are actually expanding both the screw and what it is screwed into. You want to heat just the tube to expand it and not the screw. Another thing that helps is putting your torx bit in the screw, twist counter-clockwise a bit as you whack the top with a hammer. The impact helps break loose stubborn screws. It is the same idea as a hand held spring assisted impact driver. Now, if only I could find smaller impact rated torx bits for mine(my kit at work only goes down to t30). Good luck! -Chad

User avatar
anycal
Member
Posts: 1705
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:40 pm
Location: California

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby anycal » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:18 am

Bummer. Most of my :spyder: are from Golden, and I pretty much disassemble all of my knives. Even most recently, Siren, CF Chief, and z-wear Shaman. And although I had some stubborn screws in the past, including the ones from the days of the red loctite, I haven't had the misfortune of stripping a screw. Never had to boil or heat to remove any of them. I did snap heads and stripped threads on clip screws, but not pivot or body. I use Wiha drivers with the fat handles, and after all these miles, they look as good as when they were new.

w3tnz wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:36 am
Without seeing the screw threads / residual loctite hard to say what’s too much, but if they are using the correct kind (blue or equivalent) then it shouldn’t be too much issue even if there is some excess.
You should consider investing in a quality torx bit set, that would solve most if not all of your troubles and if you really need to apply some heat try a soldering iron directly on the screw.
I agree with this. Yes, too much would create a mess, but there is only so much of that stuff which will fit between the threads. And as long it doesn't bind too strongly, it shouldn't be an issue.
Peter

User avatar
kennethsime
Member
Posts: 1901
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:28 pm
Location: California

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby kennethsime » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:27 am

One tip I haven't seen posted yet is to hit the screw head with a soldering gun.

I had a Para 3 I got cheap that I purchased with the intention of putting some custom scales on. I started to strip the pivot screw pretty much immediately. I used boiling water, the solder gun, and finally bought some higher-end drivers Wera drivers. Then I seated the driver real good and smacked it a few times with a rubber mallet, which finally broke the loctite. Phew.

I'm not sure which step was the most crucial, but I think the smacking finally did it.
Lost to the Ages: C90GRE Stretch 1 ZDP-189 British Racing Green | C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open | C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V

Currently Rotating: C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green | C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green | C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta
C41BORE5 Native 5 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange | C223BORE Para 3 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange
C101GY2 Manix 2 Lightweight Maxamet Gray | C28GFG Dragonfly K390 Swap Foliage Green
MT27 Mule Team 27 Micro-Melt PD#1 Ranger Green | C36GPGR Military 204p Dark Green
C229MZW Shaman Z-Wear Brown Canvas Micarta

User avatar
JRinFL
Member
Posts: 1933
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Unfashionable West End of the Galaxy

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby JRinFL » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:28 am

My Siren had the same white thread locker, but I was able to get it open with no difficulty. Either the person assembling yours was overly generous with the thread locker or your bits don't fit well enough. Based on Sal's earlier posts, the white thread locker should be roughly equivalent to the common blue locker.
I have not needed to loosen a screw on my Rex45 Chief, but I guess I can later today to see if I have the same issue. One more data point, I guess?
Not every choiless knife needs a choil, not every knife with a choil needs it removed. Not every big knife needs a Lil' companion. Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes. Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date.

User avatar
steelcity16
Member
Posts: 4670
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:34 am

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby steelcity16 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:33 am

What kind of bits are you using? That looks like a Security Torx bit (hole in the middle), which will be weaker due to the hole. I'd recommend either PB Swiss, Wera, or Wiha bits in the standard Torx pattern.

I've also recommended this bitholder from PB Swiss a few times, but this thing is seriously amazing for knife disassembly. It allows you to really apply a great deal of downward pressure while turning the screw. If you have high quality hardened bits in this thing, you shouldn't have issues stripping screws due to Loctite. I haven't come across a Spyderco screw I couldn't turn with this combo, and I adjust all of the screws, especially the pivot, on all of my knives as soon as I get them.

Also, I'll echo the tips others in here have stated about a sharp downward blow with a hammer or even a hand impact, or heating the screw with the tip of a soldering iron. Though these measures should rarely be needed if you use the bitholder I mentioned and really good bits.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DZ ... UTF8&psc=1

cheaper from here but you pay for shipping

https://www.shop.pbtools.us/SwissGrip-S ... 10-30M.htm

Image
Last edited by steelcity16 on Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
:spyder: CRU-CARTA THEM ALL! :spyder:

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 23051
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby Evil D » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:35 am

Oh you can put a LOT of thread locker on small screws.


Image
How you carry yourself is just as important as what you carry.
~David

User avatar
M Sea
Member
Posts: 1149
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:20 am
Location: Margaritaville

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby M Sea » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:41 am

Evil D wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:35 am
Oh you can put a LOT of thread locker on small screws.


Image
😯

TomAiello
Member
Posts: 5314
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 pm
Location: Twin Falls, ID

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby TomAiello » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:46 am

I had a Manix where I ended up dremeling a 'flathead' cut into a screw to get it out. I had to replace the screw, of course, but it worked.

I think that Spyderco would rather the average end user _not_ take the knives apart. Which means for 'us guys' who do that kind of thing, it's kind of on us to figure out. I understand why Spyderco, as a company, would discourage user disassembly.

Vaugith
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:37 am

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby Vaugith » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:57 am

+1 for the soldering iron method. My Zwear had no thread locker. Pivot screw backs itself out over time. Trying to let it break in more before I apply some blue myself.

User avatar
steelcity16
Member
Posts: 4670
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:34 am

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby steelcity16 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:00 am

advan wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:17 am
Now, if only I could find smaller impact rated torx bits for mine(my kit at work only goes down to t30). Good luck! -Chad

You shouldn't really need impact rated Torx bits for knives, even if using a hand impact or (gasp) battery impact. Impact bits are more for maximum torque applications like driving long decking screws where a standard hardened bit may actually shear due to the high torque. High quality standard Torx bits from Wera, Wiha, PB Swiss, etc should be just fine for anything you are doing on a knife.

FYI, I do have this impact set from Wera however that goes down to T10. I personally haven't found a need for an impact bit smaller than T10.

Image
:spyder: CRU-CARTA THEM ALL! :spyder:

Spydergirl88
Member
Posts: 8255
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:42 pm

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby Spydergirl88 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:01 am

I've spent many an evening trying to remove factory loctite from spydies screws...the mallet trick really works for breaking them loose. I don't even use heat anymore. Ive "warped" 2 wiha t6 bits, the end is still straight but the "neck" is twisted. Works fine. So far my wiha t8 and higher bits have not twisted. The only screw ive stripped was on a pm2 on the dreaded red loctite days. If they cater to those of us wanting less loctite then they upset those of us wanting their screws to not fall out in pocket. I am def team no loctite/less loctite

Spyderman91
Member
Posts: 339
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:51 pm

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby Spyderman91 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:05 am

It's funny to me...

Personally before Spyderco I NEVER disassembled my knives, or even thought about it.

I would wash, and dry with a towel but I never felt the "need" to disassemble for maintenance.
However, once I discovered the wonderful world of "aftermarket" accessories it was game over.
Disassembling my PM2 was simple enough, instead of boiling I used a hair dryer against the screws to
break the loctite. It worked fairly well, although, I did have issues getting the lanyard tube out but eventually succeeded. However, I will say I've nearly stripped my pivot by dialing in the action to my liking.

What type of drivers are you using, after my experience with the PM2 I upgraded to WIHA. They are solid and won't leave you hanging. As for white loctite.... not too sure if there was a recent change all my models from Golden seemed to have had blue loctite. My most recent Golden model the Z Wear Shaman felt like it had "no loctite" because I was able to adjust the pivot no issues right out the box. I have not disassembled it yet at this time, but I do remember struggling pretty hard with my s30v Shaman.
Even with the hair dryer technique the screws would not budge until I got the WIHA.

With all that said, occasional disassembly without the need for specialized tools for upkeep is definitely a plus. But I don't think Spyderco necessarily intended users to disassemble and reassemble as frequently as we do. If you really want a knife that you can breakdown over, and over again... I would recommend you look for the "Flaming horse" brand, or the one that rhymes with "Credenza"

Spyderman91
Member
Posts: 339
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:51 pm

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby Spyderman91 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:14 am

VooDooChild wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:16 am
Except the seki spydies have no loctite and the screws loosen and then some person finally has a screw fall out and writes a review about the knife "breaking" even though its because they didnt maintain their knife.

Too much is also a pain though.
When I bought my Matriarch 2 I was impressed with the action because it felt nice, smooth and drop
shutty... Then one day I realized the reason why it had great action was because it was really loose (go figure). I ended up taking the pivot screws out and applied some blue loctite, I dialed in the action and now it's perfect.

Spyderman91
Member
Posts: 339
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:51 pm

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby Spyderman91 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:21 am

Evil D wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:37 am
I haven't even tried to take apart my Shaman..makes me nervous to try. The last US made knives I've bought were all Native 5's and they've come apart fine. I wonder if this is just an individual getting a little over excited during assembly?

My Caribbeans were absolutely caked with white colored thread locker. One of the pivot screws is permanently attached to the pivot. I consider myself to be well above average in being able to get knives apart without stripping screws and overcoming thread locker (just based on all the threads seeing how often people struggle with it while I rarely do) so when I encounter one that's hard to get apart it had to be really bad.
I say if you don't really "need to" then it's better left alone, as the old saying goes:

"If it ain't broke don't fix it". I will say when I broke down my shaman and reassembled I had it "PERFECT" to my liking in terms of action and no bladeplay... but then I bought some aftermarket scales and redid my work... Although the installation was a success, I had to sacrifice some action for the sake of no blade play. Comp locks can take some time to tune in because small increments will have some big effects on the functionality of the knife. If you're happy with the knife as is... I'd say leave it because once you open up Pandora's box... you already know.

Trav64
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:22 am

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby Trav64 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:25 am

vivi wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:02 am
Way too much loctite.

WAY too much.

I've disassembled four US made Spydercos recently. Siren, Chief rex45 and two Manix XL's. All had screws slathered in white loctite.

The Siren had tons of white loctite on all the screws. I had to boil water to soak it to get it to release. It was the most difficulty I've ever had taking apart a knife.

The S30V Manix XL had so much loc-tite it broke my torx bit, completely warping the head. Stripped a pivot screw in the process of trying to take it apart. It was honestly so bad trying to take it apart the first time I thought about selling it for that reason alone. Again I had to boil a pot of water to make the screws even consider the idea of rotating.

Image

Tonight I tried to disassemble my Chief. I couldn't. Not with the tools I have. I managed to get the blade out, but I couldn't remove the stop pin by wrapping rubber around it and pulling it with needle nose pliers. Had to give up with that. Couldn't remove the steel backspacer because the rear body screw stripped as soon as I tried to do anything with it. This was after soaking it in boiling water before even attempting anything, based on my experiences with other US models.

Image

This is starting to become a problem for me. I don't like the idea of breaking my tools trying to take apart my pocket knives. Never seem to have this issue to japanese models. My Police 3 is so easy to service I can take it apart in my sleep.
If you have a soldering iron, you can use it to heat up the screw a bit and that will loosen up the thread locker. Just start with low heat and work your way up, hope this helps.

User avatar
vivi
Member
Posts: 8868
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby vivi » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:19 am

Trav64 wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:25 am
vivi wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:02 am
Way too much loctite.

WAY too much.

I've disassembled four US made Spydercos recently. Siren, Chief rex45 and two Manix XL's. All had screws slathered in white loctite.

The Siren had tons of white loctite on all the screws. I had to boil water to soak it to get it to release. It was the most difficulty I've ever had taking apart a knife.

The S30V Manix XL had so much loc-tite it broke my torx bit, completely warping the head. Stripped a pivot screw in the process of trying to take it apart. It was honestly so bad trying to take it apart the first time I thought about selling it for that reason alone. Again I had to boil a pot of water to make the screws even consider the idea of rotating.

Image

Tonight I tried to disassemble my Chief. I couldn't. Not with the tools I have. I managed to get the blade out, but I couldn't remove the stop pin by wrapping rubber around it and pulling it with needle nose pliers. Had to give up with that. Couldn't remove the steel backspacer because the rear body screw stripped as soon as I tried to do anything with it. This was after soaking it in boiling water before even attempting anything, based on my experiences with other US models.

Image

This is starting to become a problem for me. I don't like the idea of breaking my tools trying to take apart my pocket knives. Never seem to have this issue to japanese models. My Police 3 is so easy to service I can take it apart in my sleep.
If you have a soldering iron, you can use it to heat up the screw a bit and that will loosen up the thread locker. Just start with low heat and work your way up, hope this helps.
I'm going to have to buy one just for this purpose.

Image

When they're using such big gobs of white loc-tite its spilling out on to the scales it makes me wonder what's going on. You don't need to use that much, ever.
Join us at the Spyderco Swap!

Current favorite: S30V DLC Military

User avatar
vivi
Member
Posts: 8868
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby vivi » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:22 am

JRinFL wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:28 am
My Siren had the same white thread locker, but I was able to get it open with no difficulty. Either the person assembling yours was overly generous with the thread locker or your bits don't fit well enough. Based on Sal's earlier posts, the white thread locker should be roughly equivalent to the common blue locker.
I have not needed to loosen a screw on my Rex45 Chief, but I guess I can later today to see if I have the same issue. One more data point, I guess?
I use blue loctite to retain pivot screws that loosen by themselves. The white is a completely different level of hold. Not comparable at all.
Join us at the Spyderco Swap!

Current favorite: S30V DLC Military

User avatar
vivi
Member
Posts: 8868
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby vivi » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:23 am

Evil D wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:35 am
Oh you can put a LOT of thread locker on small screws.


Image
This is how all my US spydies look and its not enjoyable to deal with to say the least.
Join us at the Spyderco Swap!

Current favorite: S30V DLC Military

User avatar
vivi
Member
Posts: 8868
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby vivi » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:27 am

JohnDoe99 wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:49 am
Why are you taking them apart? There is a warranty process in place.

I prefer Spyderco keep doing what they are doing, like securing the product at the factory so I don't have to. The idea that we need to disassemble them later on and tinker with them is part of the overall, weird obsession over what are no more than pocket tools, similar to the steel bs. If we could kill that obsession, maybe the massive price inflation would come back down.
Routine pivot cleaning, scale swaps, scale dying, scale modding, blade swaps, etc. There's tons of reasons someone might want to take it apart. If I don't disassemble my non-salts I have no way to clean the liners etc. of rust. I like to take care of my tools.

What they're doing does not help end users. It'd be like coating the gas tank cap in super glue on your new car so you have to risk breaking something to fill it with gas the first time.

I've disassembled over 400 pocket knives and I've had an easier time taking apart Leathermans that weren't exactly meant to be taken apart.
Last edited by vivi on Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Join us at the Spyderco Swap!

Current favorite: S30V DLC Military

User avatar
JRinFL
Member
Posts: 1933
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Unfashionable West End of the Galaxy

Re: I'm having an issue with US made Spydies

Postby JRinFL » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:30 am

vivi wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:22 am
JRinFL wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:28 am
My Siren had the same white thread locker, but I was able to get it open with no difficulty. Either the person assembling yours was overly generous with the thread locker or your bits don't fit well enough. Based on Sal's earlier posts, the white thread locker should be roughly equivalent to the common blue locker.
I have not needed to loosen a screw on my Rex45 Chief, but I guess I can later today to see if I have the same issue. One more data point, I guess?
I use blue loctite to retain pivot screws that loosen by themselves. The white is a completely different level of hold. Not comparable at all.

In my experience, the white locker has released like blue does for me. I wonder if they switched suppliers and got something that is much more tenacious? I hope it is not a return to red level hold!
Not every choiless knife needs a choil, not every knife with a choil needs it removed. Not every big knife needs a Lil' companion. Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes. Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date.


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: FK, Gtscotty, Higher, Majestic-12 [Bot], Mushroom, p_atrick, Thunderpants, TomAiello and 36 guests