Sal, may I ask: Any (even just remote) chance of an FRN Chief?

[kobold]

I suspect silt and sand damaged the FRN? I had to disassemble and clean the Salt Native more than once.

I would actually like to buy sets of very thin PB washers and install them in all my FRN folders.

If you do add washers, please post your experiences. I have been thinking about doing the same on my N5 Salt.

I just took apart and tried to transplant the washers from my G10 Native into the Salt Native.
I measured their dimensions: outer diameter 10.93 mm and inner diameter 4.95 mm.

But.
The distance between the bushing pivot 'shoulders' in the Salt Native is 3,75 mm while the same is 3.25 mm in the G10 Native. So because the inner diameter of the washer in the G10 is sized to go in between the scales and the pivot shoulder, and because the blade thickness is 3.2 mm, it never makes contact with the blade.

So the correct washer size for the Native 5 LW models should be at least 0.25 mm thick with a 6.5 mm inner diameter and 10.9 mm outer diameter.

I will look for PB washers and will do a mod.

Pictures:

The washer from the G10 Native fits perfectly in the FRN mold:

But the bushing pivot is oversized to introduce an airgap between the scales and the blade.
In practice though, in time, material fatigue leads to deformation and the blade and the scales will start touching, resulting in rough action.

[Wartstein]

Sal, any thoughts yet about a Chief in FRN that you´d like to share?

[Wartstein]

Now that it seems to be pretty clear that the Shaman will come out in an FRN version, I wonder even more so if there are any such plans for the Chief too? - And finally perhaps the whole "Native family" will be available in G10 AND FRN in the end - ?
(I am sure there are not too few who´d also like to see an FRN Lil Native, and Native 5 and Shaman do/will come out in both handle materials anyway!)

[Wartstein]

Sal, since you seem to kindly answer a lot of questions lately and obviously quite some people are interested in in an FRN Chief, I allow myself to bump this thread once more... :)

[Matus]

I don’t find the G10 chief too heavy for its size, but I would very much appreciate a less blocky handle. However FRN version would most certainly require at least partial liners what would add weight and also cost, so I am not sure whether the final result would be much cheaper or lighter than the G10 version.

[Wartstein]

I don’t find the G10 chief too heavy for its size, but I would very much appreciate a less blocky handle. However FRN version would most certainly require at least partial liners what would add weight and also cost, so I am not sure whether the final result would be much cheaper or lighter than the G10 version.

FRN would not require any liners, it is just as strong as G10 (see Pac Salt).
And FRN is usually more ergonomic/chamfered than G10

[Matus]

FRN would not require any liners, it is just as strong as G10 (see Pac Salt).
And FRN is usually more ergonomic/chamfered than G10

I would not see it as a question of strength (yes, FRN is indeed strong enough), but mechanical robustness/stability. Already on a Para 3 - a much shorter handle than the Chief - the one notices the give the FRN has. On a handle about 1 inch longer - that would give most likely a very flimsy feel.

I would rather see Spyderco developing processes to allow for decent chamfering / 3D shaping with other materials than FRN and highly prized limited carbon models.

[Wartstein]

FRN would not require any liners, it is just as strong as G10 (see Pac Salt).
And FRN is usually more ergonomic/chamfered than G10

I would not see it as a question of strength (yes, FRN is indeed strong enough), but mechanical robustness/stability. Already on a Para 3 - a much shorter handle than the Chief - the one notices the give the FRN has. On a handle about 1 inch longer - that would give most likely a very flimsy feel.

I would rather see Spyderco developing processes to allow for decent chamfering / 3D shaping with other materials than FRN and highly prized limited carbon models.

The Chief handle is not really longer than the handle on my Pac Salt 1 (don't have the "2" yet):
Not a "flimsy feel" at all. Every bit as robust/stable as linerless G10 in the same thickness - did you ever handle a Pac Salt 1?
Perhaps the Golden FRN on the Para 3 is more "flimsy", though I don't think so
Golden FRCP (Manix) is really robust and rigid in any case.

And I think chamfered FRN is a really good thing. Strong and rigid, as said, plus as soon as the molds are there cheaper (and for me even better in any aspect) than G10...

[Nate]

I don’t find the G10 chief too heavy for its size, but I would very much appreciate a less blocky handle...

Same here. Not sure I’d be interested in an frn Chief (and I’m an frn fan,) but I got to handle a Shaman yesterday and man I’d love to see some contouring like that on the Chief. I plan to do some sanding on the scales to knock down the edges a bit, but the screw placement really limits how aggressive you can get with it.

[Matus]

The Chief handle is not really longer than the handle on my Pac Salt 1 (don't have the "2" yet):
Not a "flimsy feel" at all. Every bit as robust/stable as linerless G10 in the same thickness - did you ever handle a Pac Salt 1?
Perhaps the Golden FRN on the Para 3 is more "flimsy", though I don't think so
Golden FRCP (Manix) is really robust and rigid in any case.

And I think chamfered FRN is a really good thing. Strong and rigid, as said, plus as soon as the molds are there cheaper (and for me even better in any aspect) than G10...

I absolutely agree that the chamfering that FRN offers without added cost is a great thing. Para 3 is a great example. Manix - sadly - is not (and a huge disappointment to me as everything else would be near perfect for me). At the same time Manix (just got my hands on one today for the first time) has a much stiffer handle than Para 3 LW - what is most likely related to the closed back design of the Manix.

I may be making this up (maybe it is because of the less stiff design of the Para 3 LW handle), the Para 3 feels less plasticky than Manix.

[Wartstein]

The Chief handle is not really longer than the handle on my Pac Salt 1 (don't have the "2" yet):
Not a "flimsy feel" at all. Every bit as robust/stable as linerless G10 in the same thickness - did you ever handle a Pac Salt 1?
Perhaps the Golden FRN on the Para 3 is more "flimsy", though I don't think so
Golden FRCP (Manix) is really robust and rigid in any case.

And I think chamfered FRN is a really good thing. Strong and rigid, as said, plus as soon as the molds are there cheaper (and for me even better in any aspect) than G10...

I absolutely agree that the chamfering that FRN offers without added cost is a great thing. Para 3 is a great example. Manix - sadly - is not (and a huge disappointment to me as everything else would be near perfect for me). At the same time Manix (just got my hands on one today for the first time) has a much stiffer handle than Para 3 LW - what is most likely related to the closed back design of the Manix.

I may be making this up (maybe it is because of the less stiff design of the Para 3 LW handle), the Para 3 feels less plasticky than Manix.

Now I think I see why we feel differently about the rigidness of linerless FRN! :)

Differently to you I actually have very little experience with OPEN back linerless FRN knives (just could handle a Para 3 LW, never owned one), but a lot with closed back linerless FRN / FRCP (Pac Salt, Salt 2, Native 5 FRN, Manix 2 LW...)

Now keep in mind: An FRN Chief WOULD have a closed back and by that be certainly as rigid as a Pac Salt 1 and also as rigid as the linerless G10 Chief... man, I´d really like to have an FRN Chief or at least know if there is any chance that we´ll see one eventually! :)

[Wartstein]

I don’t find the G10 chief too heavy for its size, but I would very much appreciate a less blocky handle. .....

Just quickly concerning the probable weight difference between a Chief G10 and a Chief FRN:
If I extrapolate from the Native 5 weight difference between G10 and FRN to the chief, this would be the results (of course I can´t say if it would be exactly like that concerning the Chief in "real life", but it should be close):

Native 5 G10 3.0 oz / 85 gram
Native 5 FRN 2.5oz / 71 gram

This would mean for the Chief:

- Chief G10 3.9oz / 111 gram
- "Chief FRN" 3.2 oz / 92 gram

Significant? Probably not, in most scenarios.
But still: An FRN Chief would have about Endura weight (actually a tad lighter), while the G10 Chief weighs about as much as a PM2 (actually a tad more). For me noticable in lighter pants or shorts.

Combined with the comfortable of the probably chamfered FRN the lower weight would certainly be nice to have.

[JRinFL]

I’m still in favor of an FRN Chief & a Salt version.

[ugaarguy]

I’m still in favor of an FRN Chief & a Salt version.

Count me in as well.

[Kels73]

I've come to really like Spyderco's FRN over the past few years, so I'd be down for this.

[Wartstein]

I’m still in favor of an FRN Chief & a Salt version.

Why not combine "FRN" and "Salt" - ?

[JRinFL]

I’m still in favor of an FRN Chief & a Salt version.

Why not combine "FRN" and "Salt" - ?

Because some want a LW but not a Salt version. :) However, I did make an assumption that all Salts were FRN, but the Caribbean proves otherwise.

[Enactive]

I’m still in favor of an FRN Chief & a Salt version.

Why not combine "FRN" and "Salt" - ?

Because some want a LW but not a Salt version. :) However, I did make an assumption that all Salts were FRN, but the Caribbean proves otherwise.

The Siren is G10 and the SpydieChef and Tusk are Ti-framed.

Indeed most are FRN. 5, of my 7 too.

[Wartstein]

I’m still in favor of an FRN Chief & a Salt version.

Why not combine "FRN" and "Salt" - ?

Because some want a LW but not a Salt version. :) However, I did make an assumption that all Salts were FRN, but the Caribbean proves otherwise.

I see and you're right! :)
Though I figure those who want a Salt- but not FRN version are perhaps as many?

[samdasnake]

I much prefer FRN to G10, and I’d love to see an FRN version of the Chief.