Spyderco "Hyker"

[ladybug93]

Nice job with the reprofiling of the blade silhouette. It looks very smooth.

I've heard various takes on LC200N's edge retention vs. VG-10, some saying equivalent, some saying one or the other takes the lead. I'd be curious to see some testing. Maybe there's data out there I'm not aware of. VG-10 tends to get a bad rap.

I posted my initial impressions some time ago with a LC200N Mule and felt it was about VG-10 or a bit better with edge holding based on a cardboard project I had worked on. I was pummeled by the momentum of the LC200N lovers for saying such. Maybe I'm not so crazy after all!!! :D

CG

i like lc, and initially praised it pretty highly. i made comments about it being equal to s30v. after some more experience, i have to admit it's not as good as s30v. it does sharpen easier though and i still like it. at this point, i think i'm happier with se h1 instead though. i need to test it on a thinner pe knife though. my only experiences are with the pe native salt and se sheepsfoot caribbean. if they do these in all black, i may pick up a pe.

Why are you happier with SE H1? I am curious because I do not have any LC200N at present and my only H1 se is a Dragonfly Salt. It does do pretty well at edge retention, but I have not had to sharpen it much yet.

there are a few reasons:
1. i'm more familiar with it. i've been carrying a se h1 pac salt for years now and i'm used to it and love it.
2. my pe lc200n knife is a native salt, which is not as slicey compared to other knives i enjoy carrying. the edge retention seems to be less than s30v, but not by too much. i've also found it very easy to touch up quickly on the sharpmaker.
3. my se lc200n knife is a sheepsfoot caribbean. it's a great knife, but my first cut with it was some plastic straps that rolled some of the teeth a little. nothing serious, but it was not what i expected at all. i even sent it to spyderco to make sure it wasn't defective (because i never had issues with my native salt) and they said it was fine and sent it back to me resharpened. it's not a big deal, but it's pretty disheartening to get a new $180 knife and have the first cut roll the edge even a little bit. to be fair, it may have been the way i cut the strap, but i still think it shouldn't have happened. i've had no rolls or deformation since, but i still don't trust the blade not to roll as much as i trust the pac salt.
4. i tested my se pac salt on the same straps and had zero issues at all. everyone knows h1 is super tough and is especially good with serrations.
5. i know a lot of people want ffg salt knives, but i need my salt knives to be durable and strong. there is something really comforting about that thick spine all the way to the tip that you get with a hollow grind. i don't prefer the hollow grind for all of my knives, but for the salt, which i kind of see as a good beater knife i don't have to worry about, i prefer it.

so, there is nothing wrong with lc200n at all. like i said, i'd like to test it out on a knife with thinner stock than my native salt and in plain edge. if they come out with a df2 salt in lc200n that is blacked out, i'm sure i will carry it all the time. and i still carry my caribbean a lot (i am right now, actually). i just prefer the simplicity and durability of my pac salt more when it comes to carrying a knife i don't want to worry about.

[ladybug93]

i like lc, and initially praised it pretty highly. i made comments about it being equal to s30v. after some more experience, i have to admit it's not as good as s30v. it does sharpen easier though and i still like it. at this point, i think i'm happier with se h1 instead though. i need to test it on a thinner pe knife though. my only experiences are with the pe native salt and se sheepsfoot caribbean. if they do these in all black, i may pick up a pe.

I saw a video, some time ago now, where Pete (of Cedric & Ada youtube) posted one of his rope cut test with his Spydie Chef, which has a LC200N blade. As I recall, he reported more or less what your initial comments were. That being it was right around S30V.
What I can say so far is, for my "edc" use, it seem just fine. From my re-shaping and then hand sanding off all the scratches on the spine until there were zero scratch marks and it was oh-so-smooth... It was noticeably easier/faster to do that on this LC200N blade, than it has been on the numerous VG-10 blades I've done in the past... Also, on the belt sander - very few orange "sparks".
I'll re-state though, that in my "edc" use across a few days now - it's doing just fine, and I have no complaints what so ever with it.

if i'm being honest with you (and myself), i'm perfectly fine with far lesser steels for my edc tasks and even for outdoor survival. my first serious edc was a sog in aus8 and i literally carried it every day for the better part of a decade because it was my only knife. i still carry knives with aus8 (esee zancudo, cold steel tuff lite), d2 (esee zancudo and avispa, and crkt ceo), and 8cr13mov (resilience). i also carry swiss army knives with me into the woods and trust them to be ready to go for survival. as long as the blade is sharp when you start, any of these steels should get you through at least most of what you need them to get you through. if not, you probably need a specialized tool for whatever you're doing. i'd probably even be perfectly happy with pe h1, but i prefer the spyderedge, so i don't have any pe h1.

all that is to say, i can't imagine that lc200n wouldn't be good enough for anyone using a knife as a knife over a reasonable amount of time. and if you need to sharpen it, it will be really easy to do so. most people (probably none, really) actually need the edge retention of these "premium" steels. that doesn't mean that they aren't fun to play with though, so i'm not trying to knock any of them.

[u.w.]

Personally I really like both VG10 and S30V, and in my use (though that is a lot outdoors in wet/moist/sweaty conditions) and environment they are both rustproof enough.

But if we´re talking about marketing the Salt 2 ffg or at least a special version of it as a near perfect hiking- and ultralight folder: The total corrosion-resistance would be probably a strong marketing argument for many customers of this crowd (and for many actually pretty nice to have...)

I think rustproofness is what many hikers and outdoor folks want to have (and what puts the Salt ahead of the Bugout).
Just the strong focus on marine / salt environments might make them overlook the Salt as a more general option.

We are in complete agreement in regards to VG-10, and S30V - rustproof enough.

Your point on total corrosion- resistance is a valid point, and puts it ahead of the Bugout, as you say, too.


Ladybug93,
I'd be leery of the steel too, if that had happened to me. Very understandable.

That said, and in keeping up with the thread and keeping folks up to date on this knife & steel.

I went for a little woods trail walk today ( about 13 miles ) and did trail maintenance as I went along. So, I cut a pretty decent amount (many, many dozens) of branches, saplings, and vines. Of course the blade got covered in plant guts, as you would expect. Before I washed it, when I got home, I took a few photos of the blade, just to show the use. My camera was having a heck of a time focusing on the "edge up" photo due to the lighting, and shine off the blade - so that one is a bit blurry - but you get the gist.





After I washed it with hand soap and water, it shaved hair (leg).

I did put my own edge on it (free hand) before I went out. It's a 325 grit (DMT coarse) finish, and it was poppin' hairs when I finished it.

So far, in my use - I don't have any complaints with the LC200N steel.


I will also say, as I said over in Gernot's/Wartstein's thread on the Salt 2 - Bugout alternative - Perfect hiking knife, that I Love seeing how this is progressing, AND how many people are saying they want one / they'd get one. I had that hunch, and it is really cool seeing this progress like it is.

His thread is at 6 pages! now I think, and this one is now on 3 pages! :D

u.w.

[Blnd]

A ZDP189 DF2 was my backpacking knife for years. 1000’s of miles. I guess I missed the memo on needing a rust proof steel. I finally chipped it (then lost it a for a while) so my current carry is a VG10 DF2.

Both show the wear of full time EDC and not-treated-nicely backpacking.

[u.w.]

A ZDP189 DF2 was my backpacking knife for years. 1000’s of miles. I guess I missed the memo on needing a rust proof steel. I finally chipped it (then lost it a for a while) so my current carry is a VG10 DF2.

Both show the wear of full time EDC and not-treated-nicely backpacking.

Hahahahahaha,

memo? LOL!!!

Hi Blnd, and congrats on all your trail miles. Thank you for your post.
I'm always happy to meet another long distance hiker. When on trail, I go by willin', how about you? I've hiked a few miles myself. I wonder if our paths haven't crossed at some point on trail? It's a relatively small community.

As to the DF2... Yep, I've got the ZDP-189 one, and VG-10 one too, among others. I tried it on trail, and while I'll be the first to say it was adequate, I did not prefer it - which I mentioned earlier in either this thread, or in Gernot's thread. For me, I prefer the slightly longer blade, and handle, of a Delica/Salt 2 sized knife. Just my personal preference though, of course.
Yep, my orange handled VG-10 Delica, that I modded into a "Hyker", has got thousands of trail miles on it, and it shows it too. I tried ZDP-189, and it corroded just a bit much for my liking, on trail. So, it doesn't go on hikes. When I say "hikes", I assume we are both meaning weeks or months, not day or days.

I imagine also, we we both know that there is a "right way" for each of us and, there are of course "wrong ways" too - one kind of defines the other.

As to the "memo" on needing a rust proof steel, lol... Of course you know there isn't any such "memo", as do I, and every one else.
It did get a laugh out of me though, so I thank you for that my friend.

I don't believe anyone said there was a "need" of a rust proof steel. Go back and check, maybe I missed it...

What was said was, a stainless steel. What else was said was, that a rust proof steel would likely be a marketing angle - which I think is valid, though I'm not the one who said it. No one said it was a requirement, or need, though.
What was said also was, that BOTH VG-10, and/or S30V were, in our own thousands of miles of trails and experience, rust proof, or stainless, enough for us.

It seems we are all in agreement on that too, which is good :) I'll take the validation of many thousands of trail miles, and outdoors time anytime.

I'd love to talk with you about trails you've done, trails you plan on doing, hiking, what you pack/gear/clothing, etc... I post on WB under the same name too.

Happy trails,

u.w. / willin'

[Doc Dan]

Truthfully, I really like the "Hyker" folder design you have come up with and I would buy it. However, if I were hiking these days I would prefer a light weight fixed blade, I think. Of course, that is what I was used to taking with me when I went hiking and camping. I think that might impact my thinking on the subject. But, I've been out a month at a time, building shelters, skinning game, opening cans, digging trenches, and all sorts of stuff with only my fixed blade knife with a 4 inch blade of 425M. The way I always looked at it was that if I were out and the fecal matter hit the rotary oscillator then I would need a knife badly that was strong and tough.

[Blnd]

A ZDP189 DF2 was my backpacking knife for years. 1000’s of miles. I guess I missed the memo on needing a rust proof steel. I finally chipped it (then lost it a for a while) so my current carry is a VG10 DF2.

Both show the wear of full time EDC and not-treated-nicely backpacking.

Hahahahahaha,

memo? LOL!!!

Hi Blnd, and congrats on all your trail miles. Thank you for your post.
I'm always happy to meet another long distance hiker. When on trail, I go by willin', how about you? I've hiked a few miles myself. I wonder if our paths haven't crossed at some point on trail? It's a relatively small community.

As to the DF2... Yep, I've got the ZDP-189 one, and VG-10 one too, among others. I tried it on trail, and while I'll be the first to say it was adequate, I did not prefer it - which I mentioned earlier in either this thread, or in Gernot's thread. For me, I prefer the slightly longer blade, and handle, of a Delica/Salt 2 sized knife. Just my personal preference though, of course.
Yep, my orange handled VG-10 Delica, that I modded into a "Hyker", has got thousands of trail miles on it, and it shows it too. I tried ZDP-189, and it corroded just a bit much for my liking, on trail. So, it doesn't go on hikes. When I say "hikes", I assume we are both meaning weeks or months, not day or days.

I imagine also, we we both know that there is a "right way" for each of us and, there are of course "wrong ways" too - one kind of defines the other.

As to the "memo" on needing a rust proof steel, lol... Of course you know there isn't any such "memo", as do I, and every one else.
It did get a laugh out of me though, so I thank you for that my friend.

I don't believe anyone said there was a "need" of a rust proof steel. Go back and check, maybe I missed it...

What was said was, a stainless steel. What else was said was, that a rust proof steel would likely be a marketing angle - which I think is valid, though I'm not the one who said it. No one said it was a requirement, or need, though.
What was said also was, that BOTH VG-10, and/or S30V were, in our own thousands of miles of trails and experience, rust proof, or stainless, enough for us.

It seems we are all in agreement on that too, which is good :) I'll take the validation of many thousands of trail miles, and outdoors time anytime.

I'd love to talk with you about trails you've done, trails you plan on doing, hiking, what you pack/gear/clothing, etc... I post on WB under the same name too.

Happy trails,

u.w. / willin'

Hey willin’.

I’m a section hiker at best. I included weekend/overnights and day loops in that total as well since that is what I prefer to do with my limited schedule. I only rack up miles because I’m consistent.

I was being facetious with my rust proof memo requirement. I like the size and weight of the DF2 because it’s effectively zero while still filling the hand. I would touch up the edge with a little sandpaper and not worry about the rest of the knife.

[bearrowland]

I think rustproofness is what many hikers and outdoor folks want to have (and what puts the Salt ahead of the Bugout).
Just the strong focus on marine / salt environments might make them overlook the Salt as a more general option.

I'll definitely agree with this. If the knife is a dedicated hiking knife, it can spend a considerable amount of time wet and dirty. Rustproof is almost as important as sharp for me. Durable ranks right up there too. :)

[u.w.]

Truthfully, I really like the "Hyker" folder design you have come up with and I would buy it. However, if I were hiking these days I would prefer a light weight fixed blade, I think. Of course, that is what I was used to taking with me when I went hiking and camping. I think that might impact my thinking on the subject. But, I've been out a month at a time, building shelters, skinning game, opening cans, digging trenches, and all sorts of stuff with only my fixed blade knife with a 4 inch blade of 425M. The way I always looked at it was that if I were out and the fecal matter hit the rotary oscillator then I would need a knife badly that was strong and tough.

Hi DocDan,
Thank you, and that's good to hear (you really like the Hyker and would buy it).
I gotta agree with ya,
For all the things you described doing in the woods hiking and camping, i.e. building shelters, skinning game, opening cans, digging trenches, etc... that a fixed blade would be the better choice.

Hey willin’.

I’m a section hiker at best. I included weekend/overnights and day loops in that total as well since that is what I prefer to do with my limited schedule. I only rack up miles because I’m consistent.

I was being facetious with my rust proof memo requirement. I like the size and weight of the DF2 because it’s effectively zero while still filling the hand. I would touch up the edge with a little sandpaper and not worry about the rest of the knife.

Hey Blnd,
Thanks for the reply. You're a hiker and that's awesome! in my opinion. You get what you can, and I'm betting love your time outside doing, just like all the rest of us do too. I am happy that we share those things in common.
You facetiousness worked, I definitely laughed.
I like the DF2 also, it's a great knife. I have several in fact. If that's what works best for you, and you love it, then it's definitely the right thing for you and you should definitely rock it. That's your "right way", and I would never question or disrespect it. To the contrary, I agree with you, and totally support you in it.
Keep getting out and getting those hikes in, and happy trails my friend,

I think rustproofness is what many hikers and outdoor folks want to have (and what puts the Salt ahead of the Bugout).
Just the strong focus on marine / salt environments might make them overlook the Salt as a more general option.

I'll definitely agree with this. If the knife is a dedicated hiking knife, it can spend a considerable amount of time wet and dirty. Rustproof is almost as important as sharp for me. Durable ranks right up there too. :)

I am happy to say that, I think we're all in agreement on this :)

u.w.

[sal]

Hi U.W.

Looks good and I'm glad that you're using it. I carry a Pacific 2 in LC quite a bit and use the **** out of it. I sharpen regularly so it's always sharp. Just takes a few seconds on a Sharpmaker and the steel responds well to it. I'm in Hawaii so the corrosion resistance is a nice feature. Edge retention has been fine.

sal.

[Woodpuppy]

Teleworking from Hawaii? Nice office :D

[ladybug93]

i really hope to see a leafjumper/rockjumper salt. i think it would be pretty much the perfect set of knives for this application.

[u.w.]

Hi U.W.

Looks good and I'm glad that you're using it. I carry a Pacific 2 in LC quite a bit and use the **** out of it. I sharpen regularly so it's always sharp. Just takes a few seconds on a Sharpmaker and the steel responds well to it. I'm in Hawaii so the corrosion resistance is a nice feature. Edge retention has been fine.

sal.

Hi Sal,

Thank you, and yes I am using, and enjoying, this knife quite a bit :)

I hope you're having a nice, and relaxing time while in Hawaii. I'm a fan of it, and the surrounding areas.
I spent basically all of my formative years out that way, a bit further west, on a tiny island called Yap. So many fond memories...
As I understand, it has become quite a dive destination due to it being a popular spot for the the Giant Oceanic Manta Rays (Mobula birostris) to congregate. Of course, back when I was living there, I don't know if many, or any, knew about the Manta Rays.

The Pacific 2 is a great knife. I've got a few via the job I used to have. I'd say it's an Excellent knife for Hawaii.

Seems like we have the "sharpen it regularly" thing in common.
Though I've not yet owned a Sharpmaker, I plan on getting one at some point. It just seems like too good & practical of an idea and tool, to not get and use. A nod, and thanks, to this forum & it's members for "opening my eyes" to that.
Not only do I sharpen or maintain my knives regularly, I also do most of the folks I work with knives too, lol. In fact, just today at work I sharpened the knives of two of the folks I work with, and another guy said he's "going to let me" sharpen his tomorrow.
It's always a treat to see their reaction when the get their knife back too.
A good sharp knife is always a pleasure to use (in my opinion).

I've been using what I have to sharpen this knife, that being hand held diamond stones.
I agree both with, the steel responds well to it, and edge retention has been fine.

As you saw the photos & and read of, I put it through some pretty decent use this past Tuesday, and it still shaved a patch of my leg hair after all that.

If you've read this thread, and the one Wartstein started: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88925 that is tied in with this one, I wonder what you thoughts are?
There seems to be a genuine and consistent like/approval/want & practical use or need, of or for this knife.

I'm happy to send this knife, or it's blade, somewhere if that might help see this thing come to fruition and perhaps find a spot in Spyderco's line-up.

u.w.

[Bolster]

Well done. I love a lightweight modded knife...!

[u.w.]

Well done. I love a lightweight modded knife...!

Thank you Bolster! Love your photo of tarp/bivy/pack in the other post!
I've been carrying and using it (the "Hyker") exclusively since I got it, and so far - I'm liking it quite a bit.

One of the things I like about this mod/design, is that it IS LIGHTER than the bugout; yet (for me), it gives up nothing in function. I'd even go so far as to say (for me) the back lock, and big ole' thumb hole provide MORE function.

u.w.

[sal]

Great thread, BTW, thanx to all contributing.

Gail and I came here in November for a vacay. We usually go back and forth several times in the winter. But the hassle with quarantine coming back was too much so we're still here. Working remote. We learned to dive on the Big island. Diving and Sailing was why we pushed so hard for a salt water material that can CUT. We saw a market for people like us. Looks like you too.

No active Covid cases in Kauai.

On the blade shape; I like it, but the basic customer base for us doesn't take too kindly to the shape, as indicated by the original Stretch blade.

Glad it's working for you.

sal

[JRinFL]

Teleworking from Hawaii? Nice office :D

Kīlauea volcano is actually Sal's secret lair. Shhh... :spyder:

[ladybug93]

i keep coming back to this thread... i think a leafjumper salt might actually make the best "hyker" model. i can't wait to see what final design looks like.