Try this at home. New sharpening method.

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Naperville
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Re: Try this at home. New sharpening method.

Postby Naperville » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:27 pm

VooDooChild wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:15 pm
Im interested, but right now I think whoever sharpened it just put a much better edge on it than the factory edge.
No, that is not what happened here. From my Cedric & Ada NOTES (yes, I take notes) we have:

* Old Sharpening Method Test
*^* NEW SHARPENING METHOD TEST

Steel(Sharpening method) Cissal cuts - Knife

* CPM REX 121(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX - 13dg 3000 grit edge), 1300+ - Creely Blades
* CPM Rex 121(600 grit and Tormek Strop), 1180 to 1200 cuts - Creely Blades, Mako
* Maxamet(KME 17 deg mirror finish, (Mirror finish is 1500 grit, plus polish)), 1075 - Spyderco Mule
* Maxamet(17 deg mirror polish), 1050 - Spyderco
*^* CPM M4(Approx 20deg, 250gr on one side, 6,000gr on the other side), 1050 - Spyderco Paramilitary 2
* CPM 15V (?), 1050 cuts - Andrew Biryukov(sp) fixed blade
* Z Max(KME, 17 deg edge, mirror polished), 1000 cuts - Rob Erickson Knifeworks, SPT
* K390(KME 17 deg mirror polished, (Mirror finish is 1500 grit, plus polish)), 940 - Spyderco Mule
* CPM REX 121(UNLEASHED - 17dg 600 grit Lansky Edge), 925 to 950 - Creely Blades
*^* M390(?deg, 250gr on one side, 6,000gr on the other side), 900 - Benchmade (Model ?)
* PM A11(Approx 63Rc, 17deg KME Edge, (Mirror finish is 1500 grit, plus polish)), 875 - Spyderco Mule ("Is close to CPM 10V")
* ZDP189(KME 17deg mirror polished edge), 840 - Spyderco Delica
* M390(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXXX, 13deg/12deg per side), 550/810 - Steel Will
* Maxamet(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge toothy), 810 - Spyderco Manix 2
* CPM S90V(KME 17 deg mirror polished edge, 59+ RC, (Mirror finish is 1500 grit, plus polish)), 700 - Spyderco Mule
* S125V (17deg Factory Edge), 650 - Andre Barykov
* CPM M4(UNLEASHED - 15deg edge, 600 grit KME toothy/coarse edge), 700 - Spyderco Mantra
* Vanax Superclean(1.55% Nitrogen/3.50% Vanadium Steel)(17deg KME Mirror Polished Edge), 680 - Shannon Labs Knife 60HRC
* S110V(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX, Coarse Edge, 600 grit, 13deg), 680 - Spyderco Paramilitary 2
* Vanadis 4E (63-64HRC, 17deg KME edge), 675 - Bradford Guardian 4
* S110V(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX, Mirror Polished Edge, "micron" 13deg), 650 - Spyderco Paramilitary 2
* M4(KME 17 deg mirror finish, (Mirror finish is 1500 grit, plus polish)), 620 - Spyderco Mule
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Re: Try this at home. New sharpening method.

Postby The Meat man » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:33 pm

VooDooChild wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:15 pm
Im interested, but right now I think whoever sharpened it just put a much better edge on it than the factory edge.
I think there might be something in this. Pete didn't sharpen that knife. Perhaps it was a better sharpening job than he usually does. After all, I don't think I've ever seen Pete test his edges by any other method than slicing a held sheet of copy paper, which is not a particularly refined test and allows for a lot of variation.
Not saying that that's all there is to it, but it might be one factor.
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Re: Try this at home. New sharpening method.

Postby u.w. » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:14 pm

Naperville wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:27 pm
VooDooChild wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:15 pm
Im interested, but right now I think whoever sharpened it just put a much better edge on it than the factory edge.
No, that is not what happened here. From my Cedric & Ada NOTES (yes, I take notes) we have:


*^* NEW SHARPENING METHOD TEST

Steel(Sharpening method) Cissal cuts - Knife

*^* CPM M4(Approx 20deg, 250gr on one side, 6,000gr on the other side), 1050 - Spyderco Paramilitary 2


*^* M390(?deg, 250gr on one side, 6,000gr on the other side), 900 - Benchmade (Model ?)

In the video(s) where Pete uses these "new sharpening method", sharpened knives, cutting the Sisal rope, I thought he was using a Spyderco Military? Not a PM2.

I saw where he said the guy that sharpened them "estimates they are about 20° per side", so an "estimated" 40° edge right?

with only seeing one test of these particular knives, it's hard to say VooDoo Child isn't right though, IMO.

u.w.

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Naperville
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Re: Try this at home. New sharpening method.

Postby Naperville » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:01 am

u.w. wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:14 pm
In the video(s) where Pete uses these "new sharpening method", sharpened knives, cutting the Sisal rope, I thought he was using a Spyderco Military? Not a PM2.

I saw where he said the guy that sharpened them "estimates they are about 20° per side", so an "estimated" 40° edge right?

with only seeing one test of these particular knives, it's hard to say VooDoo Child isn't right though, IMO.

u.w.
You could be right about the knife being a Military! It was large, and I bet it was a Military.

I'll have to go back and watch the entire video again to see what I can learn. I like to keep accurate notes.

VooDooChild wrote, "Im interested, but right now I think whoever sharpened it just put a much better edge on it than the factory edge." While the edge may be better than factory (of course), there is far more going on here and the edge would have to yield results almost 100% better than Pete's other edges.

I cannot testify to Pete's knife sharpening abilities, but he has been sharpening knives for quite a long time. He has to be pretty good at it by now. 100% better is quite a leap.

That is why I asked @Larrin to get involved and to use a machine to test this all out. Larrins or Spyderco's BESS testing systems may be the only way to find out what the facts are.
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Re: Try this at home. New sharpening method.

Postby Matus » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:33 am

I would be cool if Outpost 76 (again, don't know his real name) did a similar test. Pete uses sisal rope, O76 uses cardboard - different materials and different (relative) results and their testing shows.
... I like weird :spyder: ...

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Re: Try this at home. New sharpening method.

Postby The Meat man » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:45 am

Matus wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:33 am
I would be cool if Outpost 76 (again, don't know his real name) did a similar test. Pete uses sisal rope, O76 uses cardboard - different materials and different (relative) results and their testing shows.
Gerald.
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"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

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Re: Try this at home. New sharpening method.

Postby Matus » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:31 am

The Meat man wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:45 am
Matus wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:33 am
I would be cool if Outpost 76 (again, don't know his real name) did a similar test. Pete uses sisal rope, O76 uses cardboard - different materials and different (relative) results and their testing shows.
Gerald.
Thanks!
... I like weird :spyder: ...

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Re: Try this at home. New sharpening method.

Postby soc_monki » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:36 am

Pete may also not get through all the fatigued steel at the apex, and these 2 knives are into clean steel. That can account for some increase in retention. I remember watching an outpost video on the benchmade super Freek (m4) and spyderco manix 2 (m4) and it took 16 sharpenings to get to good steel and have consistent results with the Freek. Once he did get to good steel, it cut for a long time! But that was one heavily overheated edge!

Still, as Sal says, they do a "polished coarse" edge from factory. I try to mirror that by using a dmt extra coarse or a coarse stone, then refine a little bit with the spyderco medium stone. Very sharp, very bitey, and it seems to last a while for me. Still experimenting, but so far that's the edge that seems to do it for me. Once I've touched up the knife enough times to where the coarseness is gone I hit it on the coarse stones again and rinse and repeat.

I just don't like the way a highly polished edge seems to not bite into certain materials. All good, just different!
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Re: Try this at home. New sharpening method.

Postby u.w. » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:57 am

Naperville wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:01 am
You could be right about the knife being a Military! It was large, and I bet it was a Military.

I'll have to go back and watch the entire video again to see what I can learn. I like to keep accurate notes.

VooDooChild wrote, "Im interested, but right now I think whoever sharpened it just put a much better edge on it than the factory edge." While the edge may be better than factory (of course), there is far more going on here and the edge would have to yield results almost 100% better than Pete's other edges.

I cannot testify to Pete's knife sharpening abilities, but he has been sharpening knives for quite a long time. He has to be pretty good at it by now. 100% better is quite a leap.

That is why I asked @Larrin to get involved and to use a machine to test this all out. Larrins or Spyderco's BESS testing systems may be the only way to find out what the facts are.
Not that it's necessarily worth continuing on about but, if you are indeed keeping "accurate notes" as you say,

Yes, it was/is a Military - not a PM2.
Testing was cutting Sisal rope.
It seems like you are implying that Pete is who sharpened those knives. Pete is not the person who sharpened those knives.
Pete did say the guy who he got the knives from and who sharpened them, "estimates they are about 20° per side".

You seem to imply that what Pete did & presented was not "facts". I respectfully disagree.

As per Pete & the videos, Pete did in fact receive two knives from someone who sharpened them in the way shown.
He did in fact do his Sisal Rope cut test with those two knives.
He did in fact get the results he got, and did in fact share that data.

Doing BESS or CATRA edge testing would, in fact, also provide data.

u.w.

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Re: Try this at home. New sharpening method.

Postby ladybug93 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:42 am

i wonder how this would work with a spyderedge knife. i usually just use my brown rods on my pac salt, but maybe i'll do the burr removal on the back side of the chisel grind with the white stones and see how that goes. probably won't make much of a difference though.

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Re: Try this at home. New sharpening method.

Postby Matus » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:18 am

Well, apropos factory edge - I am yet to see an edge retention tests that delivers better results as after a full sharpening. Factory edges are (not talking specifically about Spyderco here) between just ok and terrible. Usually super coarse - just as they came out from the grinder at whatever grit that was (grinding marks are super easy to see, so hardly past 400) and probably just power-stropped with whatever stuff to get the burr off. The edge is the super aggressive and definitely cuts, but just does not last quite as long as properly sharpened one.

I would also not put too much weight into an assumption that Pete does not know how to sharpen a blade ... Of course only relative conclusions can be drawn, but those have, IMO, a pretty firm basis.
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Re: Try this at home. New sharpening method.

Postby kobold » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:49 am

u.w. wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:17 am

As to the these sharpening videos, they are interesting. I wonder also, how much, if at all, does the grind direction come in to play? Which he mentions in the video.

u.w.

I guess the dotted lines in the screencap mark the direction (at 6000 grit)?
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