The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

[cabfrank]

As everyone has said, that mod, which looks similar to a baby Stretch to me, is fantastic. I would absolutely want one, but I don't think it would be worth it for Spyderco to make both versions.

[Henry_P]

Just received my Salt 2 and it's my first wharncliffe blade. I really like the blade design and how light it is. It's a great slicer. I think this knife would be a great all rounder for someone who just wants one knife.

[u.w.]

Yes, great and sensible approach!! A lot like what I tried to transport when starting this thread! :)

Both practically speaking but probably also "marketing-wise". Though I´d say:

- For many hikers and outdoor folks who are into really light gear, the total corrosion resistance of LC will still be a strong selling point. For those an "ultralight" hiking Delica (which would essentially be a Salt 2 ffg with just another handle color or whatever) could be in the lineup

That's a valid point regarding the total corrosion resistance.

Wow, that’s a beautiful mod!

As far as LC200N’s edge-holding compared to other steels (S30V, VG-10, etc.), I’m pretty certain there are many variables in edge geometry and real-world use that will produce different results.

Jim

Thank You Jim!

We are in complete agreement in regards to your comment on LC200N's edge-holding.

So far, for me, it's doing fine. I took it out on a little woods trail walk today (say around 13 miles) and of course cut saplings, branches, and vines a-plenty, just keeping the trails clear (trail maint). After I washed the plant guts off the blade, it would still shave leg hair. I took a few photos of the blade before I washed it, just for reference





My camera was having a heck of a time (the lighting) trying to focus on that edge up one, so I apologize for the blurriness of it. You get the gist of it though, lots of use through woody substances. Washed it, and it shaved hair. Now, I did put my own edge on it before I went out. It's a 325 grit (DMT coarse) edge finish, at factory edge bevel angle. As I said though, so far, for me, it's doing fine.

As everyone has said, that mod, which looks similar to a baby Stretch to me, is fantastic. I would absolutely want one, but I don't think it would be worth it for Spyderco to make both versions.

Thank You cabfrank. You called it on the baby Stretch. It is the Stretch I blade shape, that inspired it. Still to date, one of, if not my most, favorite Spyderco.

I love seeing how many folks are saying they'd want one! I had that hunch, and it's pretty cool to see it progressing like this.

Just received my Salt 2 and it's my first wharncliffe blade. I really like the blade design and how light it is. It's a great slicer. I think this knife would be a great all rounder for someone who just wants one knife.

Congrats to you Henry_P!! I've heard lots of great things about wharncliffes. Enjoy your new super light Wharncliffe slicer!


u.w.

[cabfrank]

I loved the Stretch too, and regret selling mine, when I didn't know any better. I think we are in agreement that a linerless one would be a hit, just as your mod design would.

[singhpankaj62]

I really hope they come out with something, because I end up carrying the bugout a lot in shorts in the summer, but I end up missing the spydie ergos when it's pressed into more than light use get-mobdro.com

[Wartstein]

I really hope they come out with something, because I end up carrying the bugout a lot in shorts in the summer, but I end up missing the spydie ergos when it's pressed into more than light use

Well, the Salt 2 in ffg and LC 200 N is already there anyway? Weighing almost exactly the same as the bugout?

[ladybug93]

I really hope they come out with something, because I end up carrying the bugout a lot in shorts in the summer, but I end up missing the spydie ergos when it's pressed into more than light use

i carried my se h1 pac salt in my waistband every day for the four years i was living in hawaii. even in board shorts, it was never uncomfortable. any of the salt 2 or pacific salt models are good to go for that application.

[Gsg9]

I don't see why somebody couldn't bugout until now for example with a Delica in VG10 or S30V.
Was the 10 grams difference (64 grams VG10 Delica vs 54 grams LC200N Salt2) a bugging out problem?

Unless will be bugging out with the Navy SEALS on a regular basis VG10 or S30V are decently stainless.
Mini/Bugout is S30V and that wasn't a problem for Benchmade to sell loads of them.

Or the already existing "ultra-corrosion-resistant" Salt2 in H-1 at 60 grams was too heavy?

People are talking 51 grams vs 52.45 grams is "lighter than a Bugout" are you really gonna feel that 1.45 grams difference in your hands, backpacks or in your pockets?

Spyderco should take note and make a special customer exclusive run of Spyderco Bugout Salt @49.99 grams shaving an entire 4.01 grams from the regular model, with an exclusive blade shape and exclusive glow in the dark handles. Should involve somebody that won't shut up in this to speed things up.

[Wartstein]

I don't see why somebody couldn't bugout until now for example with a Delica in VG10 or S30V.
Was the 10 grams difference (64 grams VG10 Delica vs 54 grams LC200N Salt2) a bugging out problem?

Unless will be bugging out with the Navy SEALS on a regular basis VG10 or S30V are decently stainless.
Mini/Bugout is S30V and that wasn't a problem for Benchmade to sell loads of them.

Or the already existing "ultra-corrosion-resistant" Salt2 in H-1 at 60 grams was too heavy?

People are talking 51 grams vs 52.45 grams is "lighter than a Bugout" are you really gonna feel that 1.45 grams difference in your hands, backpacks or in your pockets?

Spyderco should take note and make a special customer exclusive run of Spyderco Bugout Salt @49.99 grams shaving an entire 4.01 grams from the regular model, with an exclusive blade shape and exclusive glow in the dark handles. Should involve somebody that won't shut up in this to speed things up.

No offense, but I am not entirely sure if you actually read what this thread is about?

Actually NOT if people really need a knife as supersuperlight as the bugout (practically almost no one ever does) or if "just" superlight like the Delica is enough.
Imho this forum is not narrowed down to "I like / you like", but rather a platform for discussions about all topics that people who love Spydercos and think about them and knives in general might be interested in.

And so this is about general marketing of knives, and partly even how weird and far from practicality it can be:
Cause it is true, almost no one will ever need the few grams an LC Salt 2 is lighter than a H1 model.

But it is also true, that the BM Bugout is a huge success, and almost always one of the first reasons mentioned is its light weight for the size. The "market" just likes that, for whatever reason. And most of the times in comparisons it is said, that Spyderco has no real alternative - when they actually DO have with the Salt ffg (similar dimensions, similar weight).

So, while you, I and most won´t ever really need a supersuperlight folder, there obviously is a market for it, not matter if you, I , most find practical reasons for that.
And so this discussion if or if not Spyderco potentially could just market the already existing Salt 2 more in that direction: Ultralight crowd, weight concerned hikers and so on.
Several options here:

1.) Leave the green Salt 2 exactly what it is, but advertize it more broadly, so that people don´t tend to think it is "only" for Salt and marine applications
2.) Make an almost identical, but still special version of it (different color, blade shape, whatever) and market THIS as the superlight hiking knife and alternative for the Bugout - the "crowd" for such folders is obviously there, no matter what you or I think is necessary or practical...

[u.w.]

I don't see why somebody couldn't bugout until now for example with a Delica in VG10 or S30V.
Was the 10 grams difference (64 grams VG10 Delica vs 54 grams LC200N Salt2) a bugging out problem?

Unless will be bugging out with the Navy SEALS on a regular basis VG10 or S30V are decently stainless.
Mini/Bugout is S30V and that wasn't a problem for Benchmade to sell loads of them.

Or the already existing "ultra-corrosion-resistant" Salt2 in H-1 at 60 grams was too heavy?

People are talking 51 grams vs 52.45 grams is "lighter than a Bugout" are you really gonna feel that 1.45 grams difference in your hands, backpacks or in your pockets?

Spyderco should take note and make a special customer exclusive run of Spyderco Bugout Salt @49.99 grams shaving an entire 4.01 grams from the regular model, with an exclusive blade shape and exclusive glow in the dark handles. Should involve somebody that won't shut up in this to speed things up.

Hi there GSG9 (Grenzschutzgruppe 9, Ja?),
Thanks for posting. I'm a fan of your screen name. Definitely an elite group!

I gotta side with Gernot here, in that some/most of your main points in your post - perhaps your main point -, were specifically addressed earlier/already in this same thread.

Have you read this thread? Because it comes across like you have not. If you have not, as it seems like you haven't, then I respectfully and politely ask that you do. A lot of what your post states is addressed. Like Gernot, I mean no disrespect to you in saying that.

I will further say that, I wonder, what is/was your intent of your post is?

I ask because I am not entirely sure as to how to perceive it, and I don't want to perceive it incorrectly. I absolutely think your intent here is relevant.

I would also like to say, Thank You, for writing SEALs correctly - the way you did. While it is unfortunately all to obvious that very many people could care less about that, or maybe even find it trivial, it is clear that you and I are not among them.

I wonder - do you have any affiliating with them? (Navy SEALs I mean)
Or GSG 9? ( formerly Grenzschutzgruppe 9)

I'd say, respectfully, go back and read through this post, as well as the "Spyderco Hyker" post, and you'll see that most of, if not all of, your points, or questions, have already been addressed and/or answered.

As well as, Gernot's reply to you too, of course.

Respectfully,

u.w.

[Wartstein]

.....

.....
As well as, Gernot's reply to you too, of course.

Respectfully,

u.w.

And my (Gernots)reply was focused on the marketing aspect, which was my main intention when starting this particular thread.
And I do think with the Salt 2 ffg Spyderco has an option to "compete" with the BM Bugout in the obviously existing market for ultralight folders, regardless if people really need a knife that shaves a few grams (and after all, lets be honest: A lot of things in the folder market are certainly not purely about practicality).

But I also want to point out once more:
There ARE situations (though rather rarely) when I do care about 10 grams more or less. And am happy when Spyderco offers a lighter knife.

Being a mountaineer, I can say:
There are demanding, long, maybe two day climbs where one really looks at each needed item and chooses the lightest version of it. Just because when it comes to hauling weight on the back over long vertical distances it really helps if this weight is kept low.

- Do 10 grams more or less matter then?
Mabye not really, but "many 10 grams more" just add up and so if I can have a knife that performs like a Delica, but is a bit lighter (Salt 2) I´ll take it. Not a huge thing, but hey: Choosing for example XHP over S30V or Taichung FRN pattern over Seki FRN pattern is not either, and can have even less practical implications.

- Do I even have to carry a Spyderco in such a weight shaving climbing scenario?
Probably not, since I have a small leatherman with me anyway. But I just like to and enjoy my day more when I have a Spyderco on me, and so even more so am glad if there are superlight options!! :)

- As for the question if one really "feels" "10 grams more or less in the pack":
No. Probably almost never and certainly not "directly"
But the thing with going light in the mountains is: One does not "directly" "feel" even 3 kilos / 7 pounds more in the pack.
They will just get tired and exhausted earlier, without necessarily contributing this consciously to a heavier pack, when in fact this is one of the reasons for it.
To be clear: On most occasions I don´t care carrying an a bit heavier pack and in return just stuff I enjoy having with me.
But there certainly still are situations when lowest weight possible counts.

[cycleguy]

The Salt 2 Green LC200N Wharncliffe PE I've been waiting for arrived this evening. This knife rocks! (Well, so far in hand; I'll get to carrying and using it soon). I can balance it on my index finger where I hold the knife (and possibly a slight hair back), so it doesn't have that awkward (for me) weight forward feel to it. I see the Salt 2 FRN yellow standard blade SE (what I had before) is listed at 2.1oz on the SFO website, and the Salt 2 green FRN Wharncliffe PE is listed at 1.9oz. I suspect that is the difference between hollow grind and FFG blades. It is amazingly light; and comfortable too which usually doesn't happen together - so a winning combination. My preference goes to the green FRN vs the yellow, so it is visually more enjoyable for me as well.

Earlier this year I thought I would be purchasing an Atlantic Salt LC200N when they came out; but after a trip to SFO to handle one when they were released, I knew the Salt 2 would likely be the better/special knife for me (I'm a die hard Delica guy).

So far it seems to be headed that way. A Happy Camper :D

CG

[u.w.]

Congrats on your new knife CG!

It does feel quite amazing in hand, I agree! and there is MUCH to like about it.

u.w.

[Wartstein]

..... I see the Salt 2 FRN yellow standard blade SE (what I had before) is listed at 2.1oz on the SFO website, and the Salt 2 green FRN Wharncliffe PE is listed at 1.9oz. I suspect that is the difference between hollow grind and FFG blades. ......

Congrats! :)

/ And I think the weight difference is not only due to the different blades:
While the "old" yellow H1 Salt had two solid slabs of FRN for a handle, the handle of the ffg Salt are "inside milled out" (don´t know how to say this in English) - so thinner (and by that lighter), but with some "webbing" for structural integrity

[olywa]

Just received my Salt 2 PE in LC200N and wanted to share first impressions. The blade grind and edge are perfect and uniform. It is rather astounding how such a functional knife can be packed in to less than 2 ounces. I grabbed a driver and started in on snugging up all of the screws and was surprised how far from tight they all were, just barely snug. Since the blade was centered with no play, and the action was perfect, I plan on blue loctite for everything. This is primarily because when I did snug them even a little bit it royally screwed up the action and pushed the blade off center.

I then watched Mr. Shabaz take apart one of the new Pacific Salt 2s on his Youtube channel because I wanted to get a clue on the internals without yet taking it apart. The 3 screw heads for the rear part of the frame are on the opposite side of the pivot pin and lockbar pin screw heads. Kinda surprised me that the screw heads weren't all on the same side. I was impressed with how simple the internals are and also with the internal cutouts on the FRN.

Bottom line is that this is a well put-together folder and will make a great stablemate for my new Atlantic Salt LC200N PE. The green FRN looks even better in hand than most of the pics show.

[SG89]

..... I see the Salt 2 FRN yellow standard blade SE (what I had before) is listed at 2.1oz on the SFO website, and the Salt 2 green FRN Wharncliffe PE is listed at 1.9oz. I suspect that is the difference between hollow grind and FFG blades. ......

Congrats! :)

/ And I think the weight difference is not only due to the different blades:
While the "old" yellow H1 Salt had two solid slabs of FRN for a handle, the handle of the ffg Salt are "inside milled out" (don´t know how to say this in English) - so thinner (and by that lighter), but with some "webbing" for structural integrity

You said that correctly, Wartstein. You could also use the term "skeletonized" to describe the milled out frn as well

[u.w.]

Just received my Salt 2 PE in LC200N and wanted to share first impressions. The blade grind and edge are perfect and uniform. It is rather astounding how such a functional knife can be packed in to less than 2 ounces.
.......

Bottom line is that this is a well put-together folder and will make a great stablemate for my new Atlantic Salt LC200N PE. The green FRN looks even better in hand than most of the pics show.

Congrats on your new knife!
It is rather astounding ins't it.. I totally agree on the green FRN, it does look even better in hand. I've found after carrying it for a week-ish now, it looks EVEN BETTER with a bit of wear on it.

u.w.

[cycleguy]

Now carrying mine. So light you don't notice it in your pocket. Could get better with deep carry wire clip! Blows doors on the bugout!!!

As I see it: Delica 4 UL (ultralight - any mid range well balanced steel)
Delica 4 EUL (extreme ultralight - any premium steel)

I'd like to see this in a bang up frn color and a bang up steel and call it an anniversary model or a forum knife.

CG

[Bolster]

So, while you, I and most won´t ever really need a supersuperlight folder, there obviously is a market for it, not matter if you, I , most find practical reasons for that.

I am that market. I've spent hundreds of dollars to shave a few ounces here and there, have opted for less weight rather than comfort, and finally my pack base weight is down to 12 lbs. If you argue "what's a few more ounces" with each added item, you easily end up with a 30 lb baseweight pack and doing half the miles that you could each day.

More power to the knifemakers who will market a knife to my ilk; it's much appreciated, especially 500 miles into a hike...!

[u.w.]

Now carrying mine. So light you don't notice it in your pocket. Could get better with deep carry wire clip! Blows doors on the bugout!!!

As I see it: Delica 4 UL (ultralight - any mid range well balanced steel)
Delica 4 EUL (extreme ultralight - any premium steel)

I'd like to see this in a bang up frn color and a bang up steel and call it an anniversary model or a forum knife.

CG

It's crazy how light it is isn't it?

I like how you "see it", and the direction you're going with it

So, while you, I and most won´t ever really need a supersuperlight folder, there obviously is a market for it, not matter if you, I , most find practical reasons for that.

I am that market. I've spent hundreds of dollars to shave a few ounces here and there, have opted for less weight rather than comfort, and finally my pack base weight is down to 12 lbs. If you argue "what's a few more ounces" with each added item, you easily end up with a 30 lb baseweight pack and doing half the miles that you could each day.

More power to the knifemakers who will market a knife to my ilk; it's much appreciated, especially 500 miles into a hike...!

Yes!
Seeing your photo brought a big smile to my face! I know I'm in a good place with good people when I see that.

I am that market too (cuben/DCF, 950 fp, polycro, etc...) as are a lot of other folks who carry all they'll need to survive for hundreds, or thousands, of miles of travel by foot in the wilds, on their back in a relatively small pack.
That's not to say other human powered travel isn't also in that market but, it's the foot travel that I have experience with though.
I'd imagine there's a market in some high performance arenas as well.

Yes, the grams and ounces add up surprisingly quickly. And yes, over distance and terrain, it matters - in my experience.

u.w.