The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

[SpyderGrill]

....
I guess if enough people ask for Spyderco at REI then they will carry it? But I suspect this is also why the bugout is so popular.

The Bugout is a bit weird but perhaps also ingenious marketing-wise:

It will certainly be a really good knife for general, not TOO hard EDC, but would probably one of my last knife-choices for an actual bugout -situation (howsoever one might define one), especially as my only knife. Reasons would be quite similar why I would not want it as a hiking knife in the remote outdoors...

Still, I could imagine for many people who are not really deeper into knives and just don´t really think about them (which is 100% fine of course!) the "Bugout" might have an appeal just by its name AND its superlight weight (and it is certainly strongly marketed as being ultra light): Like, that it is cool to carry something around that weighs almost nothing but still is a great tool for "bugout situations" - so with THIS model one "is prepared for everything" a bit like those paracord bracelets, perhaps including a compass, worn by people who never use paracord or a compass (again, no disrespect, just interesting to me! Enjoying something for the only reason that one finds it to be cool is perfectly fine).

Im a lanyard/fob guy on knives. Lets me pull them out of pocket easier. I made a few for my knives, then the kids wanted all the zippers on their school back pack zippers done, then I made a Bracelot, then had to make them one.

I wear mine all the time, but the only one time it "saved the day". I was using my pressure washer on a job and the pull start string broke. I untied my bracelot (about 9 foot of cord) and used that to fix it. Still in there today and working great.

If I was a Hiker in the mountains I would have one or some cordage in my pack

[Wartstein]

.

.....

Still, I could imagine for many people who are not really deeper into knives and just don´t really think about them (which is 100% fine of course!) the "Bugout" might have an appeal just by its name AND its superlight weight (and it is certainly strongly marketed as being ultra light): Like, that it is cool to carry something around that weighs almost nothing but still is a great tool for "bugout situations" - so with THIS model one "is prepared for everything" a bit like those paracord bracelets, perhaps including a compass, worn by people who never use paracord or a compass (again, no disrespect, just interesting to me! Enjoying something for the only reason that one finds it to be cool is perfectly fine).

Im a lanyard/fob guy on knives. Lets me pull them out of pocket easier. I made a few for my knives, then the kids wanted all the zippers on their school back pack zippers done, then I made a Bracelot, then had to make them one.

I wear mine all the time, but the only one time it "saved the day". I was using my pressure washer on a job and the pull start string broke. I untied my bracelot (about 9 foot of cord) and used that to fix it. Still in there today and working great.

If I was a Hiker in the mountains I would have one or some cordage in my pack

I hope I did not come across as if I wanted to make fun of folks who like to wear a paracord -bracelet! (But I think I made clear already in my previous post that this is not what I intended!)
I think if one just likes the looks, feel or "cool factor" of such a bracelet (even it has the additional compass) this is more than enough reason to wear one, of course.
And if, like in your case, on top if it a paracord bracelet saves the day just once in a lifetim, that´s already more than most "normal just jewellery" - bracelets ever do! :)

/ I just tried to find some analogy to the BM Bugout marketing-wise: I guess not to few people just like to carry something of which they think it would be "the ultralightest on the market" and still "a "bugout"-knife, ready for the apocalypse" (which, while certainly being a very good EDC knife, the Bugout is really not). Even if they in reality they have no need for both (superlight weight / presumed "bugout"-tool)-. But just like the cool factor, "ring to it" or whatever.
And that is perfectly fine too of course! :) But I think the new Salt 2 ffg could jump a bit on that bandwagon too, just marketing-wise.

[SpyderGrill]

No not at all, I was just making a point the paracord "saved my life that day" lol

I didnt have to go to the hardware store for a new pull string

[cycleguy]

I purchased 2 bugouts and a Salt 2 SE from REI online (all with the annual/semi annual discount coupon :D ).

I just visited their website before making this post and see the Salt 2 SE is no longer available there.

I have sold all three of these knifes and will be purchasing the Salt 2 Wharncliffe PE LC200N. :)

My issues with the bugout are: 1) feel in the hand when gripping it very firmly (which becomes a hot spot due to its slenderness), 2) the thumb stud (my preference is the Spyderhole).

I like the balance of the Delica over that of the Salt 2, but I'm well over a decade with Delicas so the tip heavy Salt 2 will always be something I have to get used to.

I get the ultralight thing in theory, but in reality how big is the market where 4/10ths oz in a knife makes a difference? But I do know that sometimes marketing does make a difference and maybe there is opportunity for that here.

With age I have shaved weight in most all my outdoor gear ... for now, the 2.3 oz Delica works fine for me.

CG

[Wartstein]

.....

I get the ultralight thing in theory, but in reality how big is the market where 4/10ths oz in a knife makes a difference? But I do know that sometimes marketing does make a difference and maybe there is opportunity for that here.

With age I have shaved weight in most all my outdoor gear ... for now, the 2.3 oz Delica works fine for me.

CG

Totally right. 4 / 10 of an oz does NOT make a difference almost always for almost all people (perhaps a bit in superthin /light shorts pockets?), and it IS mostly a marketing thing. But not too unimportant there! You will very rarely read reviews of the bugout without its under 2 oz weight being pointed out. And often times added that Spyderco does have nothing as light (most times the Para 3 LW gets taken as Spydercos bugout alternative. Never the lighter Salt as far as I know.

/ Yes, the Delica gets often overlooked as an lightweight option even on this forum (perhaps because people know it has liners and think it must be "heavier" thus?)
While in fact, according to the Spyderco site, it beats both the Para 3 LW and the Native 5 LW a bit concerning light weight.
And is a slimmer carry than both with a better performing blade (for me at least, fact is it has a thinner blade)

[Xformer]

I get the ultralight thing in theory, but in reality how big is the market where 4/10ths oz in a knife makes a difference? But I do know that sometimes marketing does make a difference and maybe there is opportunity for that here.

I don't know about the 4/10ths oz thing, but the Bugout clearly proved that the market for lightweight knives is there. The knife took the industry by storm. We don't have solid numbers on the Para 3 LW, but I'm sure it's a very good seller too.

It's a solid trend in my opinion, one that revolve around practicality. It's not something like a framelock, that is more a cosmetic fad than anything.

[Wartstein]

I don't know about the 4/10ths oz thing, but the Bugout clearly proved that the market for lightweight knives is there. The knife took the industry by storm. We don't have solid numbers on the Para 3 LW, but I'm sure it's a very good seller too.

It's a solid trend in my opinion, one that revolve around practicality. It's not something like a framelock, that is more a cosmetic fad than anything.

For me the ultralight thing has another aspect too:

- Regardless if I need a under-two-ounce Salt 2 or not (and practically speaking I do not) I find it technically interesting and great that (or to be correct if, since no one here handled one yet) Spyderco can make a really solid backlock knife with such a low weight. You know, just that they can is cool... :)
A bit like it is cool that they did an (almost) linerless comp. lock in the Para 3. Just because.

- And that they show by that, that liners / heavier weight knives actually rarely are a necessety. Just nicer for some in many cases (me included, I like to carry my linered, "heavier" Endura more than my un-linered lighter pack Salt. I also prefer the balance and feel in hand of the (linered) Endura).

[Monty]

I think we've had this discussion before and the difference between "lightweight" and "ultralight" hikers came up. For a time I carried a Ladybug, now I carry a tin can opener that doubles as a blade for opening foil packages. I'm hiking, fast. Not bush crafting or camping. It's fun to carry your favorite knife but when you start carrying extra stuff all those grams add up.

I get that in your special scenario!

But there are a lot off "middle ground" scenarios, especially in mountaineering, where one wants to or has to go light but still wants to or has to carry a "real" folder, but as light as possible. I would not want to have to rely on a tin can opener for example in an emergency in some remote area.
It is such applications where the Salt 2 could really shine!

There are middle grounds, but I don't consider those middle grounds ultralight hiking. Ultralight hiking is it's own sport, just like climbing isn't bouldering, cross country isn't marathon running, etc. Before I got into ultralight I packed anywhere from 30#-120#. I'm now a little under 8# skin out, three seasons, my goal is covering ground quickly. Grams add up up, ounces add up, pounds add up. To do that you sacrifice a lot of comfort and sometimes some safety, that said I see few potential outcomes where a lack of a knife puts me at risk on a trail. Some people will carry extra weight to feel "safe", a handgun or a phone is a good example. A knife might be the same for others.

[Buddafucco]

BladeOps Salt 2
PE... https://bladeops.com/spyderco-green-sal ... oot-blade/
SE... https://bladeops.com/spyderco-green-sal ... dge-blade/

[Wartstein]

There are middle grounds, but I don't consider those middle grounds ultralight hiking. Ultralight hiking is it's own sport, just like climbing isn't bouldering, cross country isn't marathon running, etc. Before I got into ultralight I packed anywhere from 30#-120#. I'm now a little under 8# skin out, three seasons, my goal is covering ground quickly. Grams add up up, ounces add up, pounds add up. To do that you sacrifice a lot of comfort and sometimes some safety, that said I see few potential outcomes where a lack of a knife puts me at risk on a trail. Some people will carry extra weight to feel "safe", a handgun or a phone is a good example. A knife might be the same for others.

I understand!

I sometimes perhaps touch the very outskirts of ultralight-hiking (two days outings in the mountains with just my Salomon advanced Skin 12 liter runnning vest), but not really more than that.
Compared to many other mountaineers or hikers I even do go very light most times I guess - cause speed and being nimble and light is also safety in a way.
But right, I don´t do this in every aspect by far, and I don´t make "as light as possible" one of the main goals (though I see the appeal in it)

And also right: One of the main reasons I most times bring a Spyderco is that I just enjoy having it with me, the safety it might add in very specific situations is more a nice bonus.

So let´s put it this way:
For folks who:
1.) Want to carry a load as light as possible at least in many aspects but
2.) Just enjoy bringing a small, but still "full sized" Spydie:
The Salt 2 ffg is certainly one of the best choices out there! :)

[vivi]

I think we've had this discussion before and the difference between "lightweight" and "ultralight" hikers came up. For a time I carried a Ladybug, now I carry a tin can opener that doubles as a blade for opening foil packages. I'm hiking, fast. Not bush crafting or camping. It's fun to carry your favorite knife but when you start carrying extra stuff all those grams add up.

I get that in your special scenario!

But there are a lot off "middle ground" scenarios, especially in mountaineering, where one wants to or has to go light but still wants to or has to carry a "real" folder, but as light as possible. I would not want to have to rely on a tin can opener for example in an emergency in some remote area.
It is such applications where the Salt 2 could really shine!

There are middle grounds, but I don't consider those middle grounds ultralight hiking. Ultralight hiking is it's own sport, just like climbing isn't bouldering, cross country isn't marathon running, etc. Before I got into ultralight I packed anywhere from 30#-120#. I'm now a little under 8# skin out, three seasons, my goal is covering ground quickly. Grams add up up, ounces add up, pounds add up. To do that you sacrifice a lot of comfort and sometimes some safety, that said I see few potential outcomes where a lack of a knife puts me at risk on a trail. Some people will carry extra weight to feel "safe", a handgun or a phone is a good example. A knife might be the same for others.

I do UL bicycle trips where I do 100+ mile days back to back. I pack in a similar weight range. Around 8lbs spring to fall, 9-10 in winter. Not 100% the same as UL hiking but a lot of similar principles involved.

I could definitely get by with no knife or something like a Vic Classic on these trips.

[Wartstein]

BladeOps Salt 2
PE... https://bladeops.com/spyderco-green-sal ... oot-blade/
SE... https://bladeops.com/spyderco-green-sal ... dge-blade/

Now this actually touches a bit my point on "marketing:

Here is what the bladeops-site says about the Salt 2: "This Spyderco Salt 2 folder combines the highly refined ergonomics of the best-selling Delica 4 platform with ultra-corrosion-resistant materials making it an ideal knife for working around water...."

And here about the Bugout: "The Bugout is the latest installment to the Benchmade Blue Class Line and another notch in the belt for their ultra-lightweight models. Even though the profile is ultra-thin, its abilities remain pronounced with its premium stainless steel blade

If I were not really into knives, I´d take certainly the Salt 2 IF I were looking specifically for a "water knife"
BUT: I´d probably overlook its broader capabilities as a "bugout-ish", similarly light and presumably even stronger outdoor/hiking/EDC folders.
Or might even think I pay more for whatever attributes I don´t even need or which might even be a disadvantages when not wanting a specialized "water knife". No hint in the text of the very light weight or slim profile of the Salt, while the bugout advertizes that both explicitly

I know, these are just two descriptions on one random store-page.
And it is great that Spyderco has a perfect "water-knife"!!
I just think marketing it more broadly, perhaps in a slightly different version (different color or whatever) might open the market more towards the "bugout lightweight general EDC crowd")

But of course Spyderco knows what they are doing. Just a thought

[vivi]

I've said for years that marketing salts as marine specific knives sells short how perfect they are everywhere else.

[Sharp Guy]

Being that I don't currently have anything with LC200N (that I remember) I think I'm going to order one of the green handled Salt 2s in plain edge. I really don't need anything that rust proof (I do have a Salt 1 SE). Maybe we'll find it useful in the kitchen IDK

[JMM]

I'm super excited about these, SE & FFG, be still my heart... now if we can get a single Manix model in SE FFG... :D

I will getting a SE & PE as soon as they are available, and I *REALLY* hope we see an SE & PE version in K390 come someday!

[SG89]

Ordered a salt 2 ffg PE non-wharnie just now

[ugaarguy]

- Many people rave about the extremely light weight of the BM Bugout at around 1.9 oz / "under 2 ounces".
- With the Salt 2 ffg Spyderco now has a model with practically the same dimensions (less cutting edge of course), for practically the same, under-2-ounces weight (also around 1.9 oz) and they could market it as that:
THEIR ultralight general use folder. I think, regardless if one really needs that (and most DON`T, practically speaking) the "UNDER 2 ounce"-thing and being "like the bugout" in weight is something that would be intriguing to many customers, if more marketed in that way.

Well, if the goal is to hit the arbitrary "sub 2 oz." figure for marketing, then I see where you're coming from. If the market wants a non-Salt ultralight, then Spyderco could put FFG VG-10 or S30V blades into the Salt 2 handles, and use some alternative handle color like you later suggested. It's an interesting idea.

Personally, I think the Rock Jumper or Leaf Jumper getting the liner-less ultralight treatment might be better for this. That would satisfy the "edge length to handle length ratio" crowd. It's another useless metric, but a lot of the YouTubers and r/edc folks have glommed onto it. If Spyderco is going for an arbitrary weight, they might as well check off as many of the other arbitrary metrics that they can.

[cabfrank]

I've said for years that marketing salts as marine specific knives sells short how perfect they are everywhere else.

This is really true, for me. I am nearly always carrying a Salt, never on the water, and only a few times a year at the beach.

[u.w.]

My issues with the bugout are: 1) feel in the hand when gripping it very firmly (which becomes a hot spot due to its slenderness), 2) the thumb stud (my preference is the Spyderhole).

I get the ultralight thing in theory, but in reality how big is the market where 4/10ths oz in a knife makes a difference? But I do know that sometimes marketing does make a difference and maybe there is opportunity for that here.

With age I have shaved weight in most all my outdoor gear ... for now, the 2.3 oz Delica works fine for me.

CG

I'm with you - I prefer the Spyder hole. It's not that I have any issues per se with the bugout, but I do not prefer axis locks or thumb studs. Especially with COLD fingers and hands, or Gloves.

As to the "ultralight thing". 0.4 ounces, I doubt most would notice the difference, carrying it. The 2.3 oz Delica over the 1.9 oz Salt 2. So the Delica (which I agree works fine) is just about 25% heavier than the Salt 2. Or the Salt 2 about 20% lighter than the Delica. Right?
So, as a long distance hiker, you bet I'd love to shave 20% - 25% (or more if I could of course)weight off of everything I carry.

It's not necessarily that it's 0.4 oz, it's that it's right at 25% - or 20% - depending on which way you look at it...
So if my "base weight" is say... 9-ish lbs, and I take 1.8 - 2 lbs off that, by simply swapping one item for another and not giving up any function or ability.... Of course I'm going to do that. Or 4 - 5 lbs off a 20 lb pack...
I'm curious to see what it weighs after I make it the "Hyker" model, by making it a drop point, like the UKPK drop point... I've been posting about it for years, and am excited to finally see.

I too have "shaved weight" in what I carry over the years, and I hope to continue to where, and as the opportunities present themselves.

u.w.

[u.w.]

Ordered a salt 2 ffg PE non-wharnie just now

Me too :)

u.w.