The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

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Wartstein
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#121

Post by Wartstein »

u.w. wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:09 pm
cycleguy wrote:
Bolster wrote:
Wartstein wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:49 am
So, while you, I and most won´t ever really need a supersuperlight folder, there obviously is a market for it, not matter if you, I , most find practical reasons for that....
I am that market. I've spent hundreds of dollars to shave a few ounces here and there, have opted for less weight rather than comfort, and finally my pack base weight is down to 12 lbs. If you argue "what's a few more ounces" with each added item, you easily end up with a 30 lb baseweight pack and doing half the miles that you could each day.
....
....
I am that market too (cuben/DCF, 950 fp, polycro, etc...) as are a lot of other folks who carry all they'll need to survive for hundreds, or thousands, of miles of travel by foot in the wilds, on their back in a relatively small pack.
That's not to say other human powered travel isn't also in that market but, it's the foot travel that I have experience with though.
I'd imagine there's a market in some high performance arenas as well.

Yes, the grams and ounces add up surprisingly quickly. And yes, over distance and terrain, it matters - in my experience.
..

My post above was probably misleading.
Actually I am kind of in that market too!

What I meant above is, that practically speaking most that want the superlightest folder still will not really feel a few grams more (it it remains just this!) in most situations. Even not I when I am mountaineering.

BUT: As I laid out before and you two here: Of course when going for a climb or multi day hike in the mountains, like most experienced "mountain guys" I consider the weight of each item I bring, since, yes, a few grams more here and there add up surprisingly quick. And in my experience a lighter pack is perhaps even more important when one covers a lot of steep, vertical distance than in the "flat lands".

So:
- There will still be many relaxed, casual mountain hikes where I go light, but still bring the Spydie enjoy the most that day, even if it s a bit heavier
- But there will also be many, where I´d always take the Salt ffg: Just because light weight matters, and if I can have a real and fully functional great Spydie that is lighter than all others, of course I´ll take it!

Said it before, and I´ve seen it often: People with heavier packs in the mountains just tire out earlier, and many won´t even realize that the heavier load they carry is one reason for it
(This btw. is also true for heavy mountain boots: Where I live, pratically none of the experienced, "real" local mountain folks wears those anymore, as long as there is no snow and no crampons needed. We all wear light trail running shoes in the mountains. Wearing those it just takes longer till your feet get tired (and they are friendlier to the joints too than the stiff boots). But tourists, who wear those heavy boots, get tired and won´t even know that the heavy weight on their feet they have to lift with each step contributes a lot to this. They just think this is the way it is and don´t think about that lighter weight might help (though, without wanting to be offensive, I have to say: Unexperienced people perhaps still should wear higher, heavier boots in the mountains, cause their tendons and reflexes are not adapted to low, light shoes and so they´d easily twist their ankles))
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#122

Post by Martijn »

Finally got mine today, and it’s a hit, I’m hooked so far!

First of all, the weight. It’s really lightweight but still sturdy and feels like a solid built knife unlike the knife that were comparing it with (that one feels cheap in my opinion).

Second, it’s thin. Like really thin. The serrations make it next to slicy also super aggressive. So also versatile, just like I hoped it to be.

And the last thing I can say right now is that it’s finished quite good. I have experienced Seki knives as the least perfect finished of all. Not bad at all but also not the best. This is an exception, it has perfect centering, the action is super smooth and the bevel is more than okay (the top is a bit wonky but an easy fix, nothing major).

I’m happy with it, going to test it hard the upcoming days and see how I like it then. For now it’s great!

Image
Chaparral CTS-XHP | Lil’ Native SE S30V | Native 5 LW REX45 | Salt 2 SE LC200N
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#123

Post by Wartstein »

Martijn wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:14 pm
Finally got mine today, and it’s a hit, I’m hooked so far!

First of all, the weight. It’s really lightweight but still sturdy and feels like a solid built knife unlike the knife that were comparing it with (that one feels cheap in my opinion).

Second, it’s thin. Like really thin. The serrations make it next to slicy also super aggressive. So also versatile, just like I hoped it to be.

And the last thing I can say right now is that it’s finished quite good. I have experienced Seki knives as the least perfect finished of all. Not bad at all but also not the best. This is an exception, it has perfect centering, the action is super smooth and the bevel is more than okay (the top is a bit wonky but an easy fix, nothing major).

I’m happy with it, going to test it hard the upcoming days and see how I like it then. For now it’s great!

Great you like yours too! :)

I was (actually still AM...) so happy with mine when it arrived, that I actually started a thread just to thank Sal for making this knife a reality... :) ( viewtopic.php?p=1508743)
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#124

Post by Martijn »

Ah yes great! Forgot to mention that I have zero blade play or lock rock, how hard I try it's super solid. Quite lucky with that I think.
Chaparral CTS-XHP | Lil’ Native SE S30V | Native 5 LW REX45 | Salt 2 SE LC200N
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#125

Post by cabfrank »

Good to hear. I was going to ask.
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#126

Post by u.w. »

Martijn wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:14 pm
Finally got mine today, and it’s a hit, I’m hooked so far! ...

Image

Congrats Martijn! I hope it meets all your expectations, and serves you well in all your endeavors, for a long time to come.
Don't forget to check the handle screws.

u.w.
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#127

Post by Martijn »

Thank you very much, I think I will. But one thing is itching me. I really really like your “hyker” mod and maybe want to try that. But don’t have the nerves yet. Maybe in the future. I have a lot of woodworking experience, but none with steel so I’ll probably try it first with some cheap supermarket knives.

About the screws, they weren’t that loose as I expected. The lockbar one was a little loose, the rest not. Very happy with it and the quality!
Chaparral CTS-XHP | Lil’ Native SE S30V | Native 5 LW REX45 | Salt 2 SE LC200N
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#128

Post by Wartstein »

This knife is so great for what it is... so I´d like to come back to why I started this thread originally:
It would be almost a shame if mountaineers, ultra light hikers and the like missed out on this perfect model, just cause it is too much associated with "Salt" and "maritime enviroment"...

Honestly, I (mountaineer and sometimes a bit of an "ultralight" guy"), when casually looking for a knife like this, probably WOULD have overlooked the great Salt 2 ffg, if I would not happen to be that much into Spyderco.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#129

Post by vivi »

Wartstein wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:58 am
This knife is so great for what it is... so I´d like to come back to why I started this thread originally:
It would be almost a shame if mountaineers, ultra light hikers and the like missed out on this perfect model, just cause it is too much associated with "Salt" and "maritime enviroment"...

Honestly, I (mountaineer and sometimes a bit of an "ultralight" guy"), when casually looking for a knife like this, probably WOULD have overlooked the great Salt 2 ffg, if I would not happen to be that much into Spyderco.
If Spyderco were to re-market the LC200N Salt 2 & Pacific Salt as ultralight backpacking knives, what do you guys think they should do different? New descriptions? A new color to go with the new marketing? An exclusive combo edge run to be sold at outdoors chains like REI or Cabelas?

I've felt the same way about salts for a long time, but I have to admit I have not spent much time thinking of a solution.
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#130

Post by Wartstein »

vivi wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:09 am
Wartstein wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:58 am
...
If Spyderco were to re-market the LC200N Salt 2 & Pacific Salt as ultralight backpacking knives, what do you guys think they should do different? New descriptions? A new color to go with the new marketing? An exclusive combo edge run to be sold at outdoors chains like REI or Cabelas?

I've felt the same way about salts for a long time, but I have to admit I have not spent much time thinking of a solution.

The easiest would be just a different handle color...

Or, leave them as they are, but market and describe them more broadly and more "aggressively" as also great UL/hiking... knives additionally to their "salty" properties (which come also in handy in hiking and the like anyway)

As said in my original post: The Salt - same weight as the BM Bugout - actually has a lot that the Bugout does not... (totally rustproof, safer, better outdoor suited lock, great SE version....) - but I think many customers just ever think of it as an actual alternative in the niche where the latter is widely recognized, but only as a knife for the oceans...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#131

Post by Wartstein »

Did not want to start a whole new thread for that minor detail, but can anyone confirm:

Looking at the drop point and the wharnie Salt 2 ffg, it seems like the wharnie has the smaller, and the drop point the larger diameter opening hole.
This would (and looks like) also make a difference concerning the steepness of the thumb ramp (steeper on the drop point), and mean, that the ergos of the wharnie should be almost 100 % like on a Delica, while a bit less so on the drop point.

Anyone who has both and can confirm?
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#132

Post by Sahib7 »

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:09 am
Anyone who has both and can confirm?
I was asking myself the same question.
I’ve neither but I found this video https://youtu.be/0fIZiJonA10 - and you are right.

That’s why I’ve just ordered a Wharncliffe Salt 2 (and a Yojimbo 2 - as it looks just so **** cool) as my first Spydercos :bug-red-white :-)
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#133

Post by Michael Janich »

Traditionally, the Round Holes on the Salt 1 and Salt 2 have been larger than the Delica 4-- 0.55 inches/14mm instead of .051 inches/13mm. That was to make the Salts easier to open with wet hands or gloves.

Stay safe,

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#134

Post by sal »

Hi Sahib,

Welcome to our forum.

sal
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#135

Post by cjk »

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:09 am
Did not want to start a whole new thread for that minor detail, but can anyone confirm:

Looking at the drop point and the wharnie Salt 2 ffg, it seems like the wharnie has the smaller, and the drop point the larger diameter opening hole.
This would (and looks like) also make a difference concerning the steepness of the thumb ramp (steeper on the drop point), and mean, that the ergos of the wharnie should be almost 100 % like on a Delica, while a bit less so on the drop point.

Anyone who has both and can confirm?
I have both. The hole on the wharncliffe green Salt 2 is 1mm smaller than the drop point green Salt 2 (13mm vs 14mm).
The green Salt 2 wharncliffe blade is the same as a Delica wharncliffe.

Edit: I just realized I'm answering a question over a year old.
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#136

Post by akapennypincher »

Lightweight, and Hunting do not mix in my world. If I am hunting want skinner with beefy blade to to big job if necessary.

My joke is Swiss Army Knife does many things poorly. I am not going to take a tree down with mini saw.
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#137

Post by benben »

vivi wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:37 pm
I'd rather carry another half ounce and bring a Pacific Salt.
This!!
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#138

Post by Wartstein »

Mushroom wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:32 pm
Now that you mention it, it probably the best Spyderco alternative to a Bugout. You bring up some really good points.

I had kind of dedicated my Para 3 LW as my backpacking knife but thinking about it now, I think I need a FFG Salt 2 to fill that role. ;)

Hey Nick,

happened to dig up this old thread I started once and came across your above post...

Would be interested if you then actually gave the FFG Salt 2 a try or at least a further thought?
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#139

Post by elena86 »

u.w. wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:05 am
Hey Gernot/Wartstein, (and others who'd be interested too)

51 grams / 1.798 ounces (lighter than a Bugout)

Image


Image

Finally got the "Hyker" model :-) I'm pretty happy and excited about this!

u.w.

I can't see your pics. I was interested in your mod. Here's mine.

Image
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

#140

Post by aicolainen »

Wartstein wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:58 am
This knife is so great for what it is... so I´d like to come back to why I started this thread originally:
It would be almost a shame if mountaineers, ultra light hikers and the like missed out on this perfect model, just cause it is too much associated with "Salt" and "maritime enviroment"...

Honestly, I (mountaineer and sometimes a bit of an "ultralight" guy"), when casually looking for a knife like this, probably WOULD have overlooked the great Salt 2 ffg, if I would not happen to be that much into Spyderco.
I had forgotten about this thread, it was a good one!
Still seems like I managed to miss out on the last couple of pages, so thanks for bumping it :)

Regarding the OG question; Salt 2 FFG vs BM Bugout for UL, I'm no longer sure if marketing will change diddly-squat.
In the years since this thread was started I've probably watched a hundred+ YT videos on backpacking/UL and read a similar amount of blog posts, articles and forum posts on the topic, and it's my impression the Salt 2 and BM Bugout has about the same market penetration in this segment; almost zero.

Knife guys and backpackers have some overlap (as we see in this thread), but the overwhelming majority of backpackers seem to have very little interest in knives.
Even less as we move into UL territory. While most backpackers understand and appreciate the utility of a knife, they don't have the interest and insight to realize what separates either of these two knives from the competition and why it might make a difference to them. If they have even heard about Spyderco or Benchmade at all.
The most common knife among true UL backpackers seem to be the Victorinox Classic SD and many of them will say they've never needed it or used it, and can barely justify it as a "nice to have" item.

While I personally can only consider myself to have been in the enthusiast segment for the last 5 years or so, it's still quite difficult to remember how I used to asses my knife needs and decide on acquisitions before that time.
One thing I do remember, and which seem to be a common way of thinking, is that multi-tools made more sense to me than dedicated folding knives. While often heavier than a dedicated folding (or fixed) blade, that fact was probably overshadowed by how they projected efficiency in way of packing more tools in a similarly sized package.
I also remember that I didn't know of any other knives or brands than what I was exposed to from my regular suppliers of hunting-, climbing- and generic outdoor gear, so even IF I would've had an epiphany back then and realized I could need a dedicated folding knife, it would likely have ended up being something like a Petzl Spatha or Gerber (UL) LST.
And as far as steel was concerned, I knew about exactly two qualities; stainless and not stainless, so whether the tang was stamped 420HC or LC200N wouldn't have made a dent in my assessment.
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