The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby tonijedi » Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:24 pm

Since I have the SE H1 I would like to have the PE LC (normal blade shape, not wharnie).

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:51 pm

tonijedi wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:24 pm
Since I have the SE H1 I would like to have the PE LC (normal blade shape, not wharnie).

Makes sense! :)

So let´s continue waiting... ;)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby aicolainen » Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:03 am

I guess the salts provide spyderco with some kind of marketing dilemma. They make sense in so many ways, but it’s hard to get that through in marketing, so they have to focus their efforts where it could make the biggest impact on the non-enthusiast crowd. The enthusiasts will figure it out no matter how it’s marketed.

Another thing about non-knife people is that I’m not convinced they understand the inherent qualities of FRN, and how well it stands on its own. To many, heft equals quality. The Bugout is certainly a polarizing design among knife people. I think it’s great and more than anything, it has really paved the way for knives like the lc salt 2 and opened peoples mind toward lightweight designs.

For me linerless has become a big selling point. I don’t need liners for anything, they just add weight and more places for gunk to build up (and hide away).
The low maintenance steels that comes along in the salts is a nice bonus and a perfect match to the linerless handles.
I don’t spend much time around salt water, it happens, but not enough to drive my preference for salt knives. I do however spend much time outdoors and in humid conditions, so the corrosion proof steel provides a nice peace of mind for me. But the advantages of linerless often make me choose salts also when risk of corrosion isn’t a part of the equation.
Maybe more people would open their eyes to the versatility of salts if there where other color options and different marketing, but then again, maybe not. Spyderco’s are somewhat an acquired taste and salts even more so, so maybe Para 3lw and Delicas are the better gateway drugs?

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby aicolainen » Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:13 am

Although my knife collection don’t have any obvious holes at the moment, I’ll probably try the new lc salt 2 out of curiosity.
The OG h1 salt 2s is one of my favorites, so anything improving on that design should be worth having.
I’ll also have to make up my mind if I want to try it in another blade option, or get another regular PE and do a blade swap, because I do really prefer the yellow handle color of the H1.

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby u.w. » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:05 am

Hey Gernot/Wartstein, (and others who'd be interested too)

51 grams / 1.798 ounces (lighter than a Bugout)

Image


Image

Finally got the "Hyker" model :-) I'm pretty happy and excited about this!

u.w.

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby tonijedi » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:34 am

u.w. wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:05 am
Hey
[...]
u.w.
Congrats on the mod, I recall you're waiting for this model to be released for a long time.

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby u.w. » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:37 am

Thanks! Yes, it's bee a while now.

u.w.

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby vivi » Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:13 pm

u.w. wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:05 am
Hey Gernot/Wartstein, (and others who'd be interested too)

51 grams / 1.798 ounces (lighter than a Bugout)

Image


Image

Finally got the "Hyker" model :-) I'm pretty happy and excited about this!

u.w.
That's a very capable tool for the weight. Good job!

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby u.w. » Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:34 pm

Yes it is, and thanks! Thanks very much!

u.w.

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Wartstein » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:36 pm

u.w. wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:05 am
Hey Gernot/Wartstein, (and others who'd be interested too)

51 grams / 1.798 ounces (lighter than a Bugout)

Hey U.W,,

sorry for the late and short reaction - having computer problems currently (something with the graphics - can´t even really see what I am typing... :o )

/ Nice mod!! :)

And actually shows perfectly one of the things tried to transport when starting this thread:
That the Salt ffg LC200N models perhaps would be a good chance for Spyderco to put the marketing focus more and more explicitly on the ultralight - and hiking crowd, additionally to pointing out the "Salt"-qualities.
Perhaps the best way for them do so so would be to make a slightly differing model of the Salt 2 ffg (blade shape, like yours or wire clip insted of spoon clip ;or even just a different color and call it something like your "Hyker"!
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby u.w. » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:29 am

No worries on replying my friend.

I would say you and I are of like mind on what the Salt ffg, LC200N (or some other steel like VG-10 or S30V, etc..., if the LC200N turns out to be not such a great choice), models potentially offer to the "ultralight crowd" and others like minded, hiking, biking, paddling... kind of human powered travel over distances, long distances...

I went with the "drop point" for numerous reasons: one - I like it aesthetically, two - to me it gives up nothing in use/performance, while decreasing weight, three - maybe even makes it a little more "stabby" - though the only thing I ever find myself "stabby-ing" are plastic/cellophane/mylar type food/chips bags. I'm not saying there isn't a (potential) requirement, or need, beyond that - but so far in my life, I have not required "stabby" beyond food and chip bags. I have now opened two bags of tortilla chips with this Hyker, and it's tip works very nicely.

I noticed you titled this thread (mini)-Bugout alternative.
I'm sure you are aware that the Delica and Bugout are basically exactly the same exact length when folded/carried. The Hyker is lighter though. Even comparing blade lengths of the two Bugouts I have with this Hyker - the difference in blade length is 0.125" (1/8 inch) Or Less. With the Hyker having a 3" blade, it does meet the legality requirements in A Lot of places. I have not found myself wanting for a longer blade when carrying/using the Delica/Hyker either, for whatever that's worth. It is "just" small enough, and "just" big enough, and now light enough @ ≤ 1.8 oz / 51 grams.

Just for the sake of showing it, I'm including a few photos of the Hyker with my two Bugouts - for size comparisons. Basically the same length knife.

Hyker on top of Bugouts:

Image

Image

Bugouts on top of Hyker:

Image

Image

Side by side:

Image

Differences, and HUGE PROS for me, are that big thumb hole, the backlock, and the Hyker is lighter. Why I feel the thumb hole and backlock are a HUGE Pro/Benefit/Advantage over the thumb stud and axis lock are - operation/use in Cold & Wet conditions and/or with gloves/mittens on your hands. In my own experience/uses there is no comparison. The Hyker wins 10 out of 10 times.... and it's lighter :)

I know a lot of people called the Para 3 lightweight, the "bugout killer" or something like that; but the Para 3 lightweight is heavier than the Delica, and considerably heavier than the bugout. The Delica/Salt/Hyker is the same size as the Bugout, but the Hyker is lighter...

I don't know if there is a "best" way to present this, as "best" is subjective. I'm presenting it this way, and have even started a thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88986
(my first - not counting the fake/counterfeit ones). I haven't checked it today yet, but it hit two pages yesterday :)
In regards to the wire clip or spoon clip - I have no issues with the spoon clip that is on the knife - but - which ever is lighter between the two is what would be in keeping with the theme here. I also have no issues with the wire clip...
In an effort at keeping costs "low" as to making of it - I'd say keep everything Salt 2 ffg green handle, spoon clip, etc... just make the drop point blade for it. I know a guy who has an already made example :D if that would help

u.w.

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:48 am

u.w. wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:29 am
.....

I noticed you titled this thread (mini)-Bugout alternative.
I'm sure you are aware that the Delica and Bugout are basically exactly the same exact length when folded/carried. The Hyker is lighter though. Even comparing blade lengths of the two Bugouts I have with this Hyker - the difference in blade length is 0.125" (1/8 inch)

.....

I know a lot of people called the Para 3 lightweight, the "bugout killer" or something like that; but the Para 3 lightweight is heavier than the Delica....

Great post! :)

Can reply just briefly at the moment...

- I mentioned both Bugout and Minibugout in the title of the thread, cause in terms of actual cutting edge the Salt 2 has practically the same anount as the MINI Bugout.. most other dimensions like the "regular" Bugout

- Yes, it always puzzled me a bit that in comparisons (even in knife center vids) the Para 3 almost always takes the role as Spydercos best fitting lightweight alternarive to the Bugout.
The Para 3 LW might be many good things, but it is not light for a LINERLESS small folder (even the similarely sized LINERED Delica is a tad lighter).
Shows again what I meant: Perhaps Spyderco could market their Salt more as a general, ultralight hiking/EDC knife for folks who want something "bugout-ish" light for whatever reason. There seem to be quite a few and seems to be a market for that.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Doc Dan » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:03 am

If they were going to market the Hyker version of a Salt 2 they could use other bright colors, too: Orange, hot pink, safety yellow, day glo blue, florescent red, etc. come to mind.
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby u.w. » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:13 am

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:48 am
- I mentioned both Bugout and Minibugout in the title of the thread, cause in terms of actual cutting edge the Salt 2 has practically the same anount as the MINI Bugout.. most other dimensions like the "regular" Bugout

- Yes, it always puzzled me a bit that in comparisons (even in knife center vids) the Para 3 almost always takes the role as Spydercos best fitting lightweight alternarive to the Bugout.
The Para 3 LW might be many good things, but it is not light for a LINERLESS small folder (even the similarely sized LINERED Delica is a tad lighter).
Shows again what I meant: Perhaps Spyderco could market their Salt more as a general, ultralight hiking/EDC knife for folks who want something "bugout-ish" light for whatever reason. There seem to be quite a few and seems to be a market for that.
Yes, 100% in Agreement with you on all counts.

u.w.
Doc Dan wrote: If they were going to market the Hyker version of a Salt 2 they could use other bright colors, too: Orange, hot pink, safety yellow, day glo blue, florescent red, etc. come to mind.
YES!!! ALL wonderful suggestions! Anything that would make it stand out, or be super easy to spot if dropped, placed on the ground, leaves, brush, tall grass, shallow water, etc... Plus, I like some of those colors too

u.w.

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby cycleguy » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:53 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:19 pm
I guess I´ll start a dedicated thread about that "marketing thing" tomorrow.

I could imagine that it would open a bit of a new market for Spyderco if they made a second version of the Salt 2 ffg in LC200N, gave it perhaps a wire clip and a different handle color (like bright blue or forest green....), just called it the "ultra-hiker" or whatever and marketed it as "their" bugout-ish superlight, "under 2 oz" folder...

The Salt, just by its name alone, might still have the image in the general market to be "only" specialized for marine environments. It also gets rarely ever recommended as Spydercos bugout alternative, but very often the Para 3 LW instead, which I personally like better than the Bugout, but which always "looses" in such comparisons (for the general market!) by its "heavier" weight...

Wartstein,

I think you and the others are very much onto something here. And, as mentioned, the obvious success of the Bugout tells us something too.

Having sat with this a few days, here is my .02:

Why not introduce a Delica 4 "Ultra Light"? I'm thinking the Ultra Light and the Salt models can co-exist. The Salt versions for corrosive environments and underwater visibility; the ultra lights for the environments where corrosion resistance and visibility isn't as important. AND, why not leverage off the amazing reputation and name of the Delica. It is the G.O.A.T. for this size EDC (ok, I'm biased but despite my bias this really is true :) ).

Why? Well, this allows for steels that perform better in other areas. An example would be a khaki (flat dark earth or burnt bronze) FRN, Cru - Wear, Ultra Light! This could also extend to exclusives (a forest green FRN 204P Ultra Light) as well as sprints (Hap40 Ultra Light)!

Additionally, the concept could be extended to all the Seki models (not everyone is a fan of the Delica, but I won't hold that against them).

Again, just my .02,

CG

EDIT: Lightweights are nested liner FRN. Ultra Lights are linerless FRN.
Last edited by cycleguy on Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby cycleguy » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:01 pm

u.w. wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:05 am
Hey Gernot/Wartstein, (and others who'd be interested too)

51 grams / 1.798 ounces (lighter than a Bugout)

Image


Image

Finally got the "Hyker" model :-) I'm pretty happy and excited about this!

u.w.
I really like your mod. Kudos, excellent, awesome!!!

CG
So many knives - so little funds!!!

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby u.w. » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:22 am

cycleguy wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:53 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:19 pm
I guess I´ll start a dedicated thread about that "marketing thing" tomorrow.

I could imagine that it would open a bit of a new market for Spyderco if they made a second version of the Salt 2 ffg in LC200N, gave it perhaps a wire clip and a different handle color (like bright blue or forest green....), just called it the "ultra-hiker" or whatever and marketed it as "their" bugout-ish superlight, "under 2 oz" folder...

The Salt, just by its name alone, might still have the image in the general market to be "only" specialized for marine environments. It also gets rarely ever recommended as Spydercos bugout alternative, but very often the Para 3 LW instead, which I personally like better than the Bugout, but which always "looses" in such comparisons (for the general market!) by its "heavier" weight...

Wartstein,

I think you and the others are very much onto something here. And, as mentioned, the obvious success of the Bugout tells us something too.

Having sat with this a few days, here is my .02:

Why not introduce a Delica 4 "Ultra Light"? I'm thinking the Ultra Light and the Salt models can co-exist. The Salt versions for corrosive environments and underwater visibility; the ultra lights for the environments where corrosion resistance and visibility isn't as important. AND, why not leverage off the amazing reputation and name of the Delica. It is the G.O.A.T. for this size EDC (ok, I'm biased but despite my bias this really is true :) ).

Why? Well, this allows for steels that perform better in other areas. An example would be a khaki (flat dark earth or burnt bronze) FRN, Cru - Wear, Ultra Light! This could also extend to exclusives (a forest green FRN 204P Ultra Light) as well as sprints (Hap40 Ultra Light)!

Additionally, the concept could be extended to all the Seki models (not everyone is a fan of the Delica, but I won't hold that against them).

Again, just my .02,

CG

EDIT: Lightweights are nested liner FRN. Ultra Lights are linerless FRN.
I think it's safe to say, that we are basically all on the same page. This is more or less what I've been asking for/posting about, for years now.

u.w.

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby u.w. » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:23 am

cycleguy wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:01 pm
u.w. wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:05 am
Hey Gernot/Wartstein, (and others who'd be interested too)

51 grams / 1.798 ounces (lighter than a Bugout)

Image


Image

Finally got the "Hyker" model :-) I'm pretty happy and excited about this!

u.w.
I really like your mod. Kudos, excellent, awesome!!!

CG
Thank You Very Much!!!

u.w.

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:36 am

cycleguy wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:53 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:19 pm

Wartstein,

I think you and the others are very much onto something here. And, as mentioned, the obvious success of the Bugout tells us something too.

Having sat with this a few days, here is my .02:

Why not introduce a Delica 4 "Ultra Light"? I'm thinking the Ultra Light and the Salt models can co-exist. The Salt versions for corrosive environments and underwater visibility; the ultra lights for the environments where corrosion resistance and visibility isn't as important. AND, why not leverage off the amazing reputation and name of the Delica. It is the G.O.A.T. for this size EDC (ok, I'm biased but despite my bias this really is true :) ).

Why? Well, this allows for steels that perform better in other areas. An example would be a khaki (flat dark earth or burnt bronze) FRN, Cru - Wear, Ultra Light! This could also extend to exclusives (a forest green FRN 204P Ultra Light) as well as sprints (Hap40 Ultra Light)!

Additionally, the concept could be extended to all the Seki models (not everyone is a fan of the Delica, but I won't hold that against them).

Again, just my .02,

CG

EDIT: Lightweights are nested liner FRN. Ultra Lights are linerless FRN.

Yes, great and sensible approach!! A lot like what I tried to transport when starting this thread! :)

Both practically speaking but probably also "marketing-wise". Though I´d say:

- For many hikers and outdoor folks who are into really light gear, the total corrosion resistance of LC will still be a strong selling point. For those an "ultralight" hiking Delica (which would essentially be a Salt 2 ffg with just another handle color or whatever) could be in the lineup

- But, as you pointed out: For many others certain properties of not totally rustproof steels could be desired. Here come your examples into play ("khaki FRN, Cru - Wear, Ultra Light Delica...")
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby James Y » Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:14 pm

Wow, that’s a beautiful mod!

As far as LC200N’s edge-holding compared to other steels (S30V, VG-10, etc.), I’m pretty certain there are many variables in edge geometry and real-world use that will produce different results.

Jim


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