The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

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Spydergirl88
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Spydergirl88 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:22 pm

u.w. wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:17 pm
Spydergirl88 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Ordered a salt 2 ffg PE non-wharnie just now
Me too :)

u.w.
:) :spyder:

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Wartstein
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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:28 pm

Spydergirl88 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:22 pm
u.w. wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:17 pm
Spydergirl88 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Ordered a salt 2 ffg PE non-wharnie just now
Me too :)

u.w.
:) :spyder:

Very cool! Can´t wait of the thoughts about it from you two! :)
And I am sure if you like your Salts, the most "opposite version" of it will follow: Wharnie and SE :D (that´s what I´d get... or I guess WILL get. It´s just that my Chap FRN is jelaous already and fears for its exclusive job as my IWB running knife... :p :p )
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:44 pm

ugaarguy wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:05 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:07 pm
Well, if the goal is to hit the arbitrary "sub 2 oz." figure for marketing, then I see where you're coming from. If the market wants a non-Salt ultralight, then Spyderco could put FFG VG-10 or S30V blades into the Salt 2 handles, and use some alternative handle color like you later suggested. It's an interesting idea.

Personally, I think the Rock Jumper or Leaf Jumper getting the liner-less ultralight treatment might be better for this. That would satisfy the "edge length to handle length ratio" crowd. It's another useless metric, but a lot of the YouTubers and r/edc folks have glommed onto it. If Spyderco is going for an arbitrary weight, they might as well check off as many of the other arbitrary metrics that they can.

Agreed, Rock or Leaf Jumper in "linerless" (and LC) are almost a "must" and pretty logical for me. Many outdoor-folks and especially Climbers will want that (Climbers are often pretty obsessed with low weight gear, and actually it makes sense there). And they´ll want a bright color version, so a green Salt Rock Jumper is a logic choice I guess.

But: It is actually not the best model for the "edge to handle length ratio crowd".
Actually the only thing I don´t fully understand in that over-amazing design is the lost opportunity in that regard. In this case NOT because edge to handle ratio is a personal pet peeve of mine (I´ll admit: It generally still is a bit, though I get more "relaxed" there already :p ), but because in the Reveal, where the RockJumper was introduced, it quite literally said one goal was "to pack as much edge (or blade) into the handle as possible".
But this is not the case. There´d be quite some space for MORE blade. And knives like the Stretch 1 despite having a choil and NOT "edge all the way to the handle" do clearly better here:
Both Stretch 1 and RockJumper have a handle length of 4.43".
But the RockJumper a blade of "only" 3.08", and an edge of "only" 2.85"
The Stretch 1 on the other hand: Blade 3.5", edge 3.2".
So the Stretch 1 has a longer EDGE than the RockJumper has BLADElength. Which is a bit puzzling, since the RockJumper-blade is still over 3" , so that legal limit is exceeded anyway.

Another model that "beats" the RockJumper in that regard (despite even having a choil) would be the Caly 3.5
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Spydergirl88 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:58 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:28 pm
Spydergirl88 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:22 pm
u.w. wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:17 pm
Spydergirl88 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Ordered a salt 2 ffg PE non-wharnie just now
Me too :)

u.w.
:) :spyder:

Very cool! Can´t wait of the thoughts about it from you two! :)
And I am sure if you like your Salts, the most "opposite version" of it will follow: Wharnie and SE :D (that´s what I´d get... or I guess WILL get. It´s just that my Chap FRN is jelaous already and fears for its exclusive job as my IWB running knife... :p :p )
Ha! Check my post in the what spydie is in the mail thread

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby ugaarguy » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:49 am

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:44 pm
...

Another model that "beats" the RockJumper in that regard (despite even having a choil) would be the Caly 3.5
Great points. A Caly 3.5 Salt LC200N would be amazing.

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby R100 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:00 am

Don't forget the Centofante 3.

I have had one for about 12 years and it has seen a lot of use and some abuse. I also bought a bugout when they were first released and it has had much less use but still enough to have broken an omega spring and come open in my pocket.

The Centofante 3 only weighs 2.33 oz by my scales and has the same cutting edge as a bugout. It is a lot more solid, is a better cutter, has a totally reliable lock and has far better ergonomics.

A Salt, Delica, FRN Chaparral, Native 5 lw or PM3 lw are all superior to the bugout in my opinion but if you want the extra cutting edge in a lightweight package the Centofante 3 is hard to beat.

Some people will worry about the pinned construction but mine has zero side to side play and less lock rock than my other Seki lockbacks.

Dan

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:36 am

R100 wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:00 am
Don't forget the Centofante 3.

I have had one for about 12 years and it has seen a lot of use and some abuse. I also bought a bugout when they were first released and it has had much less use but still enough to have broken an omega spring and come open in my pocket.

The Centofante 3 only weighs 2.33 oz by my scales and has the same cutting edge as a bugout. It is a lot more solid, is a better cutter, has a totally reliable lock and has far better ergonomics.

A Salt, Delica, FRN Chaparral, Native 5 lw or PM3 lw are all superior to the bugout in my opinion but if you want the extra cutting edge in a lightweight package the Centofante 3 is hard to beat.

Some people will worry about the pinned construction but mine has zero side to side play and less lock rock than my other Seki lockbacks.


True. I regret that I sold my Centofante. At that time I thought (foolishly) that I´d exclusively want ffg, and not sabre hollow.
This has changed meanwhile. I still want ffg in a majority of my folders, but thin sabre hollow is amazing in certain tasks!!
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby R100 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:05 am

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:36 am
R100 wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:00 am
Don't forget the Centofante 3.

I have had one for about 12 years and it has seen a lot of use and some abuse. I also bought a bugout when they were first released and it has had much less use but still enough to have broken an omega spring and come open in my pocket.

The Centofante 3 only weighs 2.33 oz by my scales and has the same cutting edge as a bugout. It is a lot more solid, is a better cutter, has a totally reliable lock and has far better ergonomics.

A Salt, Delica, FRN Chaparral, Native 5 lw or PM3 lw are all superior to the bugout in my opinion but if you want the extra cutting edge in a lightweight package the Centofante 3 is hard to beat.

Some people will worry about the pinned construction but mine has zero side to side play and less lock rock than my other Seki lockbacks.


True. I regret that I sold my Centofante. At that time I thought (foolishly) that I´d exclusively want ffg, and not sabre hollow.
This has changed meanwhile. I still want ffg in a majority of my folders, but thin sabre hollow is amazing in certain tasks!!
Judging by your posts I think we have similar tastes in knives but I'm not the careful curator that you are and never get around to selling anything. My "accumulation" of Spydercos still has all the ones I ever bought so after I got through my FFG only stage I still had my hollow grinds to revisit and appreciate.


The serious hiking crowd are very gear-centric and more interested in high quality than low price. I think Spyderco does it best and there are marketing opportunities that are being missed. The lc200n Pac Salt and new Salt ffg are in my opinion the best lightweight options available. I like plenty of others but objectively they are the best models.

Dan

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby MotoBro » Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:32 am

I often carry a Para 3 with carbon fiber scales (a few grams lighter than G-10) or a Para 3 lightweight and a Bugout or Mini Bugout throughout the week. I don’t notice a huge weight difference between any of them. But the Mini Bugout is so light it’s easy to forgot it’s in your pocket. I even took it to the extreme by putting carbon fiber scales on it and losing another 2 grams of weight (41.6 grams after swap). The FRN Dragonfly 2 is 34 grams by comparison. I’m not obsessed with weight, I just really like carbon fiber and have a cheap scale so I weighed them all out of curiosity.

I know the Dragonfly isn’t really a direct competitor to the Mini Bugout but it has it beat in the weight department and offers almost the same blade length for a lower price.

I think it would be cool to see a “Lil Para” or “Mini Para” that shrinks down the Para 3 even further to a sub 3 inch blade. But then it’s basically a compression lock Delica. I have seen some Delicas modded with G-10 scales that mimic the Para 3’s ergonomics and they looked pretty cool.

I’m just not sure that anything with a SpydieHole would be marketed as a direct competitor to the Bugout. Benchmade discontinued the Griptilians with holes in them. Maybe they weren’t popular choices in the custom shop or didn’t sell very well.

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:16 am

MotoBro wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:32 am
....

I think it would be cool to see a “Lil Para” or “Mini Para” that shrinks down the Para 3 even further to a sub 3 inch blade. But then it’s basically a compression lock Delica. I have seen some Delicas modded with G-10 scales that mimic the Para 3’s ergonomics and they looked pretty cool.

I’m just not sure that anything with a SpydieHole would be marketed as a direct competitor to the Bugout. Benchmade discontinued the Griptilians with holes in them. Maybe they weren’t popular choices in the custom shop or didn’t sell very well.

I don´t think one would have to shrink a Para 3 to make it the size of a Delica?!

They are pretty much of the same size already:
Closed length 109mm vs 108mm, blade 74mm vs 73 mm, edge both 65 mm.
The Para 3 LW and the Delica are even of about the same weight (the Para 3 LW just a tad "heavier")
Sure, the Para 3 is thicker and taller, which has pros and cons.

So a "Lil Para 3" would be more like a comp. lock Chaparral or sized like a Lil Native?!

That being said: I like the idea generally! :)

I think that knives SMALLER than Para 3, Native, Delica really profit from having a finger choil.
And on knives LARGER than Para 3, Native, Delica a choil is nice to have too sometimes.
But the particular Para 3... size range is where I like finger choils the least (without being able to give a logical reason: The Sage is an exception here for me. Again, don´t ask me why, I could not tell :o )
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:23 am

I think "super light weigh" of a knife CAN be fascinating without having a practical use for super light weight by any means..

Just like a certain blade finish, or a technical innovation in a knife that is cool and ingenious but not "needed" or not even really perceivable.
I think holding a superlight knife in hand that still functions perfectly well can offer the same kind of fascination (just on the opposite side of the scale!) like a very hefty knife can - of a heft, that is not "needed" either practically speaking.

You know, as I´ve said before: It´s cool "just because Spyderco "can""... ;)

Just a thought, not saying that this is the case with ME: I even prefer my "heavier" knives generally (so Endura over Pac Salt) when it comes to feel.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby ladybug93 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:28 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:23 am
Just like a certain blade finish, or a technical innovation in a knife that is cool and ingenious but not "needed" or not even really perceivable.
I think holding a superlight knife in hand that still functions perfectly well can offer the same kind of fascination (just on the opposite side of the scale!) like a very hefty knife can - of a heft, that is not "needed" either practically speaking.
when i got my pacific salt in the mail, i had mostly been carrying an esee zancudo as my edc. it's a much smaller knife, but it's heavier than the pacific salt. i was blown away by how great the pacific salt is and how light it was for such a large blade. combine that with the corrosion resistance, and it's no wonder why i fell in love with the model and continued buying more spyderco knives. i do like beefy knives too, but i really love the pac salt in se h1.

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Spydergirl88 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:36 pm

Carried the salt 2 today, kept forgetting it was im my pocket its so light. Love the ffg and didn't miss the liners

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby cabfrank » Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:35 pm

Well, that was quick. Any blade play?

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Spydergirl88 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:40 pm

It's about like all the other delicas ive ever had

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby cabfrank » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:47 pm

That sounds good to me.

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:11 am

Spydergirl88 wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:40 pm
It's about like all the other delicas ive ever had

Nice to see you have one already (looked at your pic in the "...is in your pocket..." thread)
And also nice that there are no blade play issues in yours (like some PAC Salts seemingly have)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:18 am

ladybug93 wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:28 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:23 am
Just like a certain blade finish, or a technical innovation in a knife that is cool and ingenious but not "needed" or not even really perceivable.
I think holding a superlight knife in hand that still functions perfectly well can offer the same kind of fascination (just on the opposite side of the scale!) like a very hefty knife can - of a heft, that is not "needed" either practically speaking.
when i got my pacific salt in the mail, i had mostly been carrying an esee zancudo as my edc. it's a much smaller knife, but it's heavier than the pacific salt. i was blown away by how great the pacific salt is and how light it was for such a large blade. combine that with the corrosion resistance, and it's no wonder why i fell in love with the model and continued buying more spyderco knives. i do like beefy knives too, but i really love the pac salt in se h1.

I do so too. It was mostly Vivi (but also others) who motivated me to get a Pac Salt (1, there was no 2 at that time).
As soon as I had carried and used for just 2 or 3 days I almost could not believe that I did not purchase one earlier.

As said, just when it comes to feel in hand, balance, and such things (that don´t matter at all purely practically speaking) I still prefer my more handle heavy Enduras over the Pac Salt.

But a knife as light but still sturdy and fully functional like the Pac Salt is (and I am sure also the Salt 2 ffg of which this thread is about is just "another kind of cool" - and actually sometimes nice to have, concerning the lighter weight and I am sure also easier maintenance and of course enhanced (or even total) rustproofness.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby tonijedi » Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:48 pm

Don't really know how I'll be able to get one of these new Salt 2 but I've just ordered a dark green rit dye for when the time comes :D

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Re: The upcoming Salt 2 ffg: Spydercos (Mini-) Bugout alternative and more? Perfect ultralight hiking knife?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:02 pm

tonijedi wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:48 pm
Don't really know how I'll be able to get one of these new Salt 2 but I've just ordered a dark green rit dye for when the time comes :D

Patience, my friend :)
They are already listed in our European stores, right, just not in stock yet...

Which version(s) will you get?
For me it will be certainly SE, and I actually planned on the wharnie. But now I am somehow flip flopping between that one and the drop point (or whatever the other shape might be called).

Anyway, it is actually THE small knife I want to own (given that the Chap FRN is a smaller-than-small knife for me ;) )
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40


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