VG 10 Is Hard? Roc.

[Cheddarnut]

I just got this wonderfully built Roc in a trade and carried it for about a week before i decided to re-profile it. No problem, i said to myself, it's VG10, how much trouble could it give me? Maybe I'm out of practice, but it seemed really hard. Can anyone chime in on this, I've reprofiled VG10 before and it was not this hard. Maybe the ROCwell was greater because of the model? :D

[paladin]

I don't own the Roc, but off the cuff, I'd say it was tough to reprofile because of the primary grind. It's a heckin splitting wedge. It's bte thickness goes from zero to 60 faster than a F1 car running moonshine.

[Wartstein]

Could it be that it just feels "harder" (to sharpen) to you cause you have to remove more metal due to the obtuse primary angle (sabre grind!) ?
Just by geometry:
- The bevel / secondary grind of course is always more obtuse than the primary grind (just on a true scandi it is "the same")
- So if the primary grind is rather obtuse already (like on most sabre grinds), one has to remove more metal in order to apply a secondary bevel, cause it is closer to the primary one already, then it would be on an ffg (given same blade stock, blade height and so on) - the "shoulders" of the secondary grind just go higher up on the secondary grind.

(Edit: Paladin beat me to it, he said essentially the same)

[Bloke]

Hey Jace, what abrasives are you using? I doubt it would be markedly harder than any other VG-10 Spyderco blade.

Then again, I wouldn’t have a clue. :)

[JD Spydo]

That's really curious>> because I own several VG-10 Spyders and I've yet to encounter one that is difficult to sharpen. I'm wondering if this might be a "heat treatment" issue or as one Brother said it might just be the overall design that makes it a bit tough to sharpen?

I'm putting that ROC on my "gotta have" list. I do love that design that is similar to a splitting wedge. There are a lot of things I could do with a blade like that. Please do keep us posted on how you end up liking that knife. Also let us know what cutting chores you find it good for :)

[Cheddarnut]

Hey Jace, what abrasives are you using? I doubt it would be markedly harder than any other VG-10 Spyderco blade.

Then again, I wouldn’t have a clue. :)

Im using a cheapo guided system starting with a diamond stone, not sure of the grit. Then progressively down to a guided ceramic stone. It was probably what the other gentlemen have stated about the geometry, though it didnt seem that extreme as the angle of the edge was fairly obtuse, 22 dps roughly.

[Wartstein]

Hey Jace, what abrasives are you using? I doubt it would be markedly harder than any other VG-10 Spyderco blade.
.....

That's really curious....

Alex and JD, I´d be interested what you think about my theory that I posted above:

- When a primary bevel is rather obtuse already (like it is on a sabre grind), so it is already relatively closer to the apex/secondary bevel one applies, obviously that secondary bevel/apex goes higher up on the blade / has higher up shoulders than it would be on a more acute primary bevel
- So: On a blade with more obtuse primary bevel the apex/secondary bevel will take up more surface area than the same angled apex would on a more acute primary bevel
- So: One has to sharpen away more metal concerning area and a bit also "depth"

This could feel like "harder to sharpen" since it takes longer?!

[Cheddarnut]

That's really curious>> because I own several VG-10 Spyders and I've yet to encounter one that is difficult to sharpen. I'm wondering if this might be a "heat treatment" issue or as one Brother said it might just be the overall design that makes it a bit tough to sharpen?

I'm putting that ROC on my "gotta have" list. I do love that design that is similar to a splitting wedge. There are a lot of things I could do with a blade like that. Please do keep us posted on how you end up liking that knife. Also let us know what cutting chores you find it good for :)

I'll keep you in the loop JD, its got a great personality, which is essential to me these days. Knives are like people, the interesting ones are the most valuable ones in spite of, or even because of, their quirks. Can it slice? Yep. So far thats all i've asked of it. It would probably love to meet your collection :)

[Wartstein]

I'll keep you in the loop JD, its got a great personality, which is essential to me these days. Knives are like people, the interesting ones are the most valuable ones in spite of, or even because of, their quirks. Can it slice? Yep. So far thats all i've asked of it. It would probably love to meet your collection :)

It is a really cool model, I´d somehow really like to have one too! (Just for stabbing tasks I´d grab something else.. )

[Cheddarnut]

I'll keep you in the loop JD, its got a great personality, which is essential to me these days. Knives are like people, the interesting ones are the most valuable ones in spite of, or even because of, their quirks. Can it slice? Yep. So far thats all i've asked of it. It would probably love to meet your collection :)

It is a really cool model, I´d somehow really like to have one too! (Just for stabbing tasks I´d grab something else.. )

Lol, stabbing is definitely not its strong suit! Its kind of an 'Nojimbo' :D

[Bloke]

Im using a cheapo guided system starting with a diamond stone, not sure of the grit. Then progressively down to a guided ceramic stone. It was probably what the other gentlemen have stated about the geometry, though it didnt seem that extreme as the angle of the edge was fairly obtuse, 22 dps roughly.

If your ceramic stone isn’t loaded or glazed ... plucked if I know. :confused:

[Wartstein]

It is a really cool model, I´d somehow really like to have one too! (Just for stabbing tasks I´d grab something else.. )

Lol, stabbing is definitely not its strong suit! Its kind of an 'Nojimbo' :D

:p
This made me laugh! Thanks for brightening up my start in the day! :) (It is morning where I live)

[Cheddarnut]

It is a really cool model, I´d somehow really like to have one too! (Just for stabbing tasks I´d grab something else.. )

Lol, stabbing is definitely not its strong suit! Its kind of an 'Nojimbo' :D

:p
This made me laugh! Thanks for brightening up my start in the day! :) (It is morning where I live)

You're welcome! Its quite late where i am so its bedtime for me, have a great day :)

[Wartstein]

:p
This made me laugh! Thanks for brightening up my start in the day! :) (It is morning where I live)

You're welcome! Its quite late where i am so its bedtime for me, have a great day :)

So good night too you, and also a great day... tomorrow (YOUR tomorrow )

[Bloke]

Alex and JD, I´d be interested what you think about my theory that I posted above:

Hey Gernot, I reckon your and the other’s theory is sound enough but Jace said it feels harder. That’s understandable too I think. I say that because I love true zero grind Scandinavian knives but, the drawback with zero grind Scandi’s as you know is the amount of steel you need to remove to touch them up so mine end up convex, like a pseudo micro bevel, till performance drops off. Then I put a V grind on them and the cycle starts again. :)

[Wartstein]

Alex and JD, I´d be interested what you think about my theory that I posted above:

Hey Gernot, I reckon your and the other’s theory is sound enough but Jace said it feels harder. That’s understandable too I think. I say that because I love true zero grind Scandinavian knives but, the drawback with zero grind Scandi’s as you know is the amount of steel you need to remove to touch them up so mine end up convex, like a pseudo micro bevel, till performance drops off. Then I put a V grind on them and the cycle starts again. :)

You mean like in "harder (higher rockwell...)steel", not like in "harder to sharpen" (the latter could also be due to "my" theory. not necessarily to "harder steel").

[Bloke]

I agree with your theory.

I just didn’t express myself as well as I could have. Yes, the more steel you need to remove the more difficult it is. So I s’pose the steel seems harder.

I had an UHC (ultra high carbon) Roselli hit a tiled floor on it’s belly. If it was a FFG it would have taken minutes to repair as it went it took hours with coarse diamond abrasives and felt much harder (Rockwell) than it actually is.

I think it’s 66 Rockwell and if I drop it again I’ll sharpen it with a 9” angle grinder.

[Dazen]

Thanks for bringing this model back up, it always seems to slip my mind. I would really like to see a sprint in this! Maybe 4V will benefit with the thickness behind the edge, and of course my favorite, rock patterned CF like the PPT.

[Mushroom]

Thanks for bringing this model back up, it always seems to slip my mind. I would really like to see a sprint in this! Maybe 4V will benefit with the thickness behind the edge, and of course my favorite, rock patterned CF like the PPT.

A rock patterned Roc? Sign me up twice! :cool:

[Cl1ff]

The Roc is among the better “Cleaver” style folding knife designs in my opinion.
A lot of the others just don’t make any sense and simply have a rectangular blade to be trendy.