Why are so many people concerned with perfect blade centering?

[Kevinim82]

A lot of heat on this thread.

A simple answer:
The focus on an aesthetic that is not functional derails our true goal here on the forum; ergonomics of tools.

Plastic deforms when cooled. It could be centered when made and then warp ever so slightly. Occasionally it is the metal that warps.

A knife owner enters a contract with Wabi-sabi or loses focus on what is really important about the tool. Wabi-sabi is the philosophy of use and a respect/reverence for the marks of use/repair. Knife use gives the knife its story.

Focusing on an aesthetic like symmetry when asymmetry is equally functional is more a reflection on the person than it is the knife.

We are buying tools gentleman, give them a story/life. Or… do what I do, and just keep the knives in the sock drawer. Socks don’t care about symmetry.

[Evil D]

A lot of heat on this thread.

A simple answer:
The focus on an aesthetic that is not functional derails our true goal here on the forum; ergonomics of tools.

Plastic deforms when cooled. It could be centered when made and then warp ever so slightly. Occasionally it is the metal that warps.

A knife owner enters a contract with Wabi-sabi or loses focus on what is really important about the tool. Wabi-sabi is the philosophy of use and a respect/reverence for the marks of use/repair. Knife use gives the knife its story.

Focusing on an aesthetic like symmetry when asymmetry is equally functional is more a reflection on the person than it is the knife.

We are buying tools gentleman, give them a story/life. Or… do what I do, and just keep the knives in the sock drawer. Socks don’t care about symmetry.

I guess collectors are just SOL then?

Trucks are tools. Are you ok buying a new truck with the bed already scratched up? It adds character right? Gonna get scratched up anyway right?

Send me all your brand new knives so I can break them in for ya. I won't even charge you anything

[JSumm]

Oh God, it's alive AGAIN!!

Don’t worry, Rick! It’ll be over soon.

How long does it normally last?

[TkoK83Spy]

Oh God, it's alive AGAIN!!

Don’t worry, Rick! It’ll be over soon.

How long does it normally last?

Hahaha! It's the gift that keeps on giving! I've unsubscribed twice throughout this...but always get lured back in when I see it at the top

[Kevinim82]

Because symmetry is beautiful.

I completely disagree with this statement. There are many studies of the psychology of symmetry.

With inorganic objects symmetry is desirable, but it is truly not attainable.

But with organic things this is different. Put a mirror to your face vertically and you’ll see what I mean. The human body is not perfectly symmetrical, if it was you would look like a robot. With organic life perfect symmetry is uncomfortable. Perfect symmetry in a human face psychologically is not something to be trusted.

[Manixguy@1994]

Wow ! I have been missing soooooo much ! A lot fun stuff ! Made my day . MG2

[Kevinim82]

A lot of heat on this thread.

A simple answer:
The focus on an aesthetic that is not functional derails our true goal here on the forum; ergonomics of tools.

Plastic deforms when cooled. It could be centered when made and then warp ever so slightly. Occasionally it is the metal that warps.

A knife owner enters a contract with Wabi-sabi or loses focus on what is really important about the tool. Wabi-sabi is the philosophy of use and a respect/reverence for the marks of use/repair. Knife use gives the knife its story.

Focusing on an aesthetic like symmetry when asymmetry is equally functional is more a reflection on the person than it is the knife.

We are buying tools gentleman, give them a story/life. Or… do what I do, and just keep the knives in the sock drawer. Socks don’t care about symmetry.

I guess collectors are just SOL then?

Trucks are tools. Are you ok buying a new truck with the bed already scratched up? It adds character right? Gonna get scratched up anyway right?

Send me all your brand new knives so I can break them in for ya. I won't even charge you anything

Hahahahhahah! David well said. I would enjoy this thread more if I had a beer with you while discussing.

I like your tile analogy from page 2 or 3, and like Vivi, i’d be more concerned/upset with the cracked tile.

To answer you seriously; collectors have dealers, and dealers allow returns on knives that have no sign of use. Collectors ARE sol when they buy exclusives that sell out, and they make returns.

Sadly I buy used vehicle, so the truck analogy is lost on me a little. If I did buy a new vehicle, I’d talk the dealer down on the price for a scratched up bed. The key here I think we can both agree on is tolerances. A scratched bed in a truck is not to tolerance. In a 200-300 dollar knife, off centering is also not to tolerance.

As a Spyderco user, I think the emphasis on blade centering and many other aspects focused on by YouTube experts are out of focus with all the awesome stuff we have going for us as users.

I get a lot of enjoyment in running all my knives through abrasives myself. Though you are a master of wabi-sabi and to have Kris serration coming from you, I’d pay more for them. When you get sick of your SE Caribbean, I’d buy it from you for more than you paid for it.

If I didn’t fear counterfeit knives, I’d buy everyone’s users on eBay (but that’s me.)

Recently I have eyed Arizona custom knife shop and I see some used knives at very good prices on this site (it might be my new go to shop.)

[kobold]

Because symmetry is beautiful.

I completely disagree with this statement. There are many studies of the psychology of symmetry.

With inorganic objects symmetry is desirable, but it is truly not attainable.

But with organic things this is different. Put a mirror to your face vertically and you’ll see what I mean. The human body is not perfectly symmetrical, if it was you would look like a robot. With organic life perfect symmetry is uncomfortable. Perfect symmetry in a human face psychologically is not something to be trusted.

To each his own. I will enjoy my centered folders and you can be happy with off-center ones..
Will you complain when they start catching on the inside of the scales?

[Kevinim82]

I'm surprised that this thread keeps on churning. People must be really sensitive to centering or deeply concerned that others do not share their view on centering. It should not surprise me have watched people over the last 50+ years.

I'm impressed that it hasn't devolved into a bloodbath yet.

This is the first I’ve read through this thread. I come here for the debate.

The goal for me; the philosophy found in this question.

[Kevinim82]

Because symmetry is beautiful.

I completely disagree with this statement. There are many studies of the psychology of symmetry.

With inorganic objects symmetry is desirable, but it is truly not attainable.

But with organic things this is different. Put a mirror to your face vertically and you’ll see what I mean. The human body is not perfectly symmetrical, if it was you would look like a robot. With organic life perfect symmetry is uncomfortable. Perfect symmetry in a human face psychologically is not something to be trusted.

To each his own. I will enjoy my centered folders and you can be happy with off-center ones..
Will you complain when they start catching on the inside of the scales?

If the knife started catching and it posed a risk to me slicing my hand while opening or closing the blade, I would try to fix it myself and probably learn more by destroying the knife in the process.

[Kevinim82]

My theory is that lots of knife people have anxiety issues and use knife collecting to cope. When they notice a small flaw on a knife, the object no longer soothes them because it triggers anxiety. I have experienced it myself but it usually wears off after owning and actually using a knife for a bit. For mid tech or custom safe queens, whose whole point is to never be used, maybe people never get over small flaws on them because they never use them. What bothers me about people who complain about slightly off centered blade on production knives is they seem to be confusing the purpose of production and custom knives.

This is a very interesting point. Thank you for addressing anxieties!

[Evil D]

Sadly I buy used vehicle, so the truck analogy is lost on me a little. If I did buy a new vehicle, I’d talk the dealer down on the price for a scratched up bed. The key here I think we can both agree on is tolerances. A scratched bed in a truck is not to tolerance. In a 200-300 dollar knife, off centering is also not to tolerance.

Used vehicles are a great analogy, and the closest they relate to this topic is with Spyderco Seconds. You go into buying a used truck knowing it's been used, most importantly knowing it has flaws. You buy a Second knowing up front that it has flaws. If I can't adjust blade centering and dial it in (and to be fair in most cases I've been able to), then that's a flaw in my eyes and it should be a second and I shouldn't be paying full price.

[James Y]

My preference for good blade centering and other things has nothing to do with anxiety for me, personally. It’s more about my innate desire as a primate for things to be fair for me. If other people have “perfect” ones, then if I pay the same amount for the same model of new knife, I want mine to be “perfect,” too (in my eyes; I’m well aware that there is no such thing as literal perfection in anything man-made).

My DLC Para 3 that I ordered from DLT came with later lockup than I would have preferred, just past 50%, whereas I had requested early lockup; however, it doesn’t give me any anxiety. I’m keeping it, carrying it, and enjoying using it.

Jim

[ABX2011]

Blade should be centered but sometimes it doesn't bother me at all. Like with the Dragonfly 2 Wharnie in my pocket right now. I don't think I'd enjoy the knife more if the blade were centered.
The more expensive the knife, the more I care. It's also a sign of quality and affects resale value.

[Wartstein]

Sadly I buy used vehicle, so the truck analogy is lost on me a little. If I did buy a new vehicle, I’d talk the dealer down on the price for a scratched up bed. The key here I think we can both agree on is tolerances. A scratched bed in a truck is not to tolerance. In a 200-300 dollar knife, off centering is also not to tolerance.

Used vehicles are a great analogy, and the closest they relate to this topic is with Spyderco Seconds. You go into buying a used truck knowing it's been used, most importantly knowing it has flaws. You buy a Second knowing up front that it has flaws. If I can't adjust blade centering and dial it in (and to be fair in most cases I've been able to), then that's a flaw in my eyes and it should be a second and I shouldn't be paying full price.

Just to avoid another discussion on this (generally, not meant towards you, David) I have to repeat: It is perfectly fine, if people like absolute perfect centering, and I have all understanding and respect for that...

But let me share the pic of the Manix and the Endura once more: Solely concerning blade centering (NOT actual signs of use):

Imho in no way the Endura is a "used truck", but the Manix a "new truck"

- If you tell people that of two identical items (trucks..) one is used (and perhaps scratched up or whatever), the other one brand new, almost anyone will see that in our world the first one is worth more.

- But that the tiny deviation from the perfect center of the Endura tip should be a flaw, is something one would have to tell and educate many people on firstly. NOT all people (!!) some will just don´t like that cause they like perfect symmetry., But others would certainly naturally not see any flaw in this. Imho this is a quality criteria that to some part is not totally "natural", but got "created" (not deliberately, but still), and many people only check, take notice and see it as a flaw cause they "learned" it should be (again: A bit like they "learned" that S30V is boring,though they would be perfectly fine with that steel if they never "heard" it "should" be boring)

[Kevinim82]

Sadly I buy used vehicle, so the truck analogy is lost on me a little. If I did buy a new vehicle, I’d talk the dealer down on the price for a scratched up bed. The key here I think we can both agree on is tolerances. A scratched bed in a truck is not to tolerance. In a 200-300 dollar knife, off centering is also not to tolerance.

Used vehicles are a great analogy, and the closest they relate to this topic is with Spyderco Seconds. You go into buying a used truck knowing it's been used, most importantly knowing it has flaws. You buy a Second knowing up front that it has flaws. If I can't adjust blade centering and dial it in (and to be fair in most cases I've been able to), then that's a flaw in my eyes and it should be a second and I shouldn't be paying full price.

Used vehicle and Spyderco seconds sale is a nice analogy.

Start of rant:
For a knife that cost 200-300 dollars, I will agree with you the tolerances should be high.

The 100+ dollar FRN Seki/Golden I would rather the tolerance be lower and the knife more affordable. I take the FRN Seki/Golden on the boat because it’s me that’ll quickly dispatch a large fish or cut rope off a prop, not any of my other boating friends. I’ve had a large catfish just flop around in back of the boat put its fin through my hand. Today, I don’t even think I’d be mad if my knife fell overboard, I’d just call myself a name and give my wife a nice excuse to buy another knife. The salt series in my mind have paid for themselves. When you need a tool, you need it.

I will speak for myself because I have truth serum in hand. I personally had a little sticker shock when I bought my first Spyderco, maybe on up to my 10th Spyderco. I’ve ruined a few stripping screws or modding to some degree.

Prior to Covid I was learning Blacksmithing at a shop in Cleveland, but they closed and haven’t opened back up. I am not zero grinding bevels or anything, but the more I read and tinker the more I appreciate the complexity of a folding knife. I must say, draft out a folding knife and hammer sheet metal by hand… then you will know, what you are asking of Spyderco at times on these threads is miracles!

I find it so weird that in my lifetime, I have such access to knowledge and access to tools, but I know that my grandfather who had less access to knowledge and less access to tools, he knew how to properly maintain and take care of his tools. I can summarize that from his maintenance and care he also used them. I have his bayonet from the Korean War on my night stand. It’s razor sharp, and it’s been used. I hope I can say that about all my knives when my family sees them beaming in the sock drawer and me dead.

We have a disease in 2022. The disease I am talking about is soft, spoiled, and lazy. I would challenge even the collectors among us to use these wonderful tools. Sal Glesser et al have made tools without compromise in function. Spyderco’s roots are in function not in archive properties.
End rant.

[Kevinim82]

Imho this is a quality criteria that to some part is not totally "natural", but got "created" (not deliberately, but still), and many people only check, take notice and see it as a flaw cause they "learned" it should be (again: A bit like they "learned" that S30V is boring,though they would be perfectly fine with that steel if they never "heard" it "should" be boring)

The “quality criteria” you hint at is call consumerism. It’s definitely not a natural thing, but it preys on our dopamine response. Companies have figured out a way to keep us buying, quality criteria is just another lure of continuing buying.

As Shawn Houston has said, the average guy only needs about 5 knives, after this, knives are just a hobby.

[Evil D]

Sadly I buy used vehicle, so the truck analogy is lost on me a little. If I did buy a new vehicle, I’d talk the dealer down on the price for a scratched up bed. The key here I think we can both agree on is tolerances. A scratched bed in a truck is not to tolerance. In a 200-300 dollar knife, off centering is also not to tolerance.

Used vehicles are a great analogy, and the closest they relate to this topic is with Spyderco Seconds. You go into buying a used truck knowing it's been used, most importantly knowing it has flaws. You buy a Second knowing up front that it has flaws. If I can't adjust blade centering and dial it in (and to be fair in most cases I've been able to), then that's a flaw in my eyes and it should be a second and I shouldn't be paying full price.

Just to avoid another discussion on this (generally, not meant towards you, David) I have to repeat: It is perfectly fine, if people like absolute perfect centering, and I have all understanding and respect for that...

But let me share the pic of the Manix and the Endura once more: Solely concerning blade centering (NOT actual signs of use):

Imho in no way the Endura is a "used truck", but the Manix a "new truck"

- If you tell people that of two identical items (trucks..) one is used (and perhaps scratched up or whatever), the other one brand new, almost anyone will see that in our world the first one is worth more.

- But that the tiny deviation from the perfect center of the Endura tip should be a flaw, is something one would have to tell and educate many people on firstly. NOT all people (!!) some will just don´t like that cause they like perfect symmetry., But others would certainly naturally not see any flaw in this. Imho this is a quality criteria that to some part is not totally "natural", but got "created" (not deliberately, but still), and many people only check, take notice and see it as a flaw cause they "learned" it should be (again: A bit like they "learned" that S30V is boring,though they would be perfectly fine with that steel if they never "heard" it "should" be boring)

I think maybe part of your issue with all this is the part about you seeing it as such a small detail that non knife people wouldn't see it.


We are not non knife people


This argument may not make a difference to my wife. It may not make a difference to a guy spending $10 for his knife at a flea market. It absolutely matters to me spending $200.

Somewhere out there is a guy who isn't "educated" and if he never sees it and never cares then his life will be simpler for it. I do see it, I'm well aware of it and I will not fault myself for being aware of it and disliking it. There was a time when all of us were probably much more satisfied by much lower end steels but we learn and we grow and our expectations grow too. My understanding of what makes an excellent knife has grown leaps and bounds and part of that is expecting high levels of fit and finish. And yes I know the difference between production and custom and I don't see this as unreasonable in even the slightest miniscule way.

And for the record I don't think anyone here is directing their responses at you specifically (I mean, beyond quotes for just random discussion). I know you brought this demon spawn into this world but at this point it has grown beyond your control and we don't blame you for it

[Bloke]

[Kevinim82]

I just discovered this demon spawn of a post today, and I will say, this one can have all my kindling to keep its fire going!

https://youtu.be/eFTLKWw542g