Why are so many people concerned with perfect blade centering?

[ChrisinHove]

If a knife manufacturer can’t or won’t get something right that you can see, maybe it increases the odds of them ignoring something important that you can’t see.

Slightly off centre doesn’t bother me, particularly if there is pressure one side from a lock mechanism. Poor quality/ price ratio bothers me rather more.

[Evil D]

If you bought a car and all the door and panel gaps were uneven would you be ok with that?

With the average knife being around $150+ these days, the more expensive they get the more unforgiving I get of details like this.

[Xformer]

If you bought a car and all the door and panel gaps were uneven would you be ok with that?

With the average knife being around $150+ these days, the more expensive they get the more unforgiving I get of details like this.

This.

Knives are dangerous. If a manufacturer can't get the centering right, why should I trust the lock, the overall solidity and such ?

[Wartstein]

If a knife manufacturer can’t or won’t get something right that you can see, maybe it increases the odds of them ignoring something important that you can’t see.
....

If you bought a car and all the door and panel gaps were uneven would you be ok with that?

With the average knife being around $150+ these days, the more expensive they get the more unforgiving I get of details like this.

If you bought a car and all the door and panel gaps were uneven would you be ok with that?

With the average knife being around $150+ these days, the more expensive they get the more unforgiving I get of details like this.

...
Knives are dangerous. If a manufacturer can't get the centering right, why should I trust the lock, the overall solidity and such ?

Well, because a slightly off centered blade in my experience is not like panel gaps on a car and not an indicator / predictor at all that something else functionally important could be wrong too. All my slightly off centered Spydies perform exactly as well as the perfectly centered ones, and that over years and years

Again, I get the aesthetic value of a perfectly centered blade, but slightly off centered is functionally speaking not a "flaw" at all - at least with all Spydies I had.
Functionally speaking a slightly off centered blade is even less irrelevant as if a clip is mounted a fraction of a millimeter more up or down the handle.
And: The slightly off centered blade can´t be perceived both on pocket (well, cause the knife is in the pocket) and also not in use (cause then the knife is open)

So for me it is a bit like "artifically" or even slightly "petty" (not meant offensive!) looking for a flaw that ain´t one functionally speaking.
And putting WAY too much emphasize on perfect centering as a quality feature than it actually should be (while overlooking much more important features)

[Evil D]

It's just an aesthetic that I like. It really doesn't need more justification than that. It's the same to me as why the next guy likes FRN over G10. I care a little less on less expensive linerless knives but like I said, as price goes up my expectations go up and that's literally how it should be. That's why people buy a Mercedes instead of a Honda, and the things people might overlook on the Honda absolutely will not fly on the Mercedes. If I wanted uncentered blades and uneven grinds I'd go with a less expensive brand.

[skeeg11]

Don't wanna derail the thread so I won't mention lock rock.

[Wartstein]

Don't wanna derail the thread so I won't mention lock rock.

You mean like in that lock rock is more of a feature that defines quality than off centered blades?

[Wartstein]

It's just an aesthetic that I like. It really doesn't need more justification than that. It's the same to me as why the next guy likes FRN over G10. I care a little less on less expensive linerless knives but like I said, as price goes up my expectations go up and that's literally how it should be. That's why people buy a Mercedes instead of a Honda, and the things people might overlook on the Honda absolutely will not fly on the Mercedes. If I wanted uncentered blades and uneven grinds I'd go with a less expensive brand.

Hi David,

no, of course it does not need more justification than that and I totally respect when people care for the pure aesthetics of their knives, in whatever features they might see those! (I do so too of course to some degree, just happen not to care for blade centering in that regard) :)

It just sometimes puzzles me to what degree and how widespread a slightly off centered blade is seen as one main criteria for quality. I think many would not notice that and would not care at all, if they´d not have "learned" mainly from the internet that a slightly off centered blade allegedly shows inferior quality. I mean, they would not even notice it (and again, neither in pocket nor in use it CAN even be noticed) - because it just does not affect anything relevant really!
One actually has to put the knife in a certain position and look closely to even see it

While most people will notice the differences between Honda and Mercedes.
Or an uneven grind, which is at least a small functional flaw, since for unexperienced people it might make sharpening harder

But hey, all fine! This is not about right or wrong, I just don´t "feel" myself why an off centered blade can be bothering, and so I wanted to ask. :)

[pantagana23]

Comparison.

I'm going to pay 100-200-300 dollars for a knife, and if there is a possibility of misalignments, and on another model/producer/factory isn't (especially if the price on the model with consistently better finish is lower, let alone much lower), I would be pretty frustrated.

[Evil D]

It's just an aesthetic that I like. It really doesn't need more justification than that. It's the same to me as why the next guy likes FRN over G10. I care a little less on less expensive linerless knives but like I said, as price goes up my expectations go up and that's literally how it should be. That's why people buy a Mercedes instead of a Honda, and the things people might overlook on the Honda absolutely will not fly on the Mercedes. If I wanted uncentered blades and uneven grinds I'd go with a less expensive brand.

Hi David,

no, of course it does not need more justification than that and I totally respect when people care for the pure aesthetics of their knives, in whatever features they might see those! (I do so too of course to some degree, just happen not to care for blade centering in that regard) :)

It just sometimes puzzles me to what degree and how widespread a slightly off centered blade is seen as one main criteria for quality. I think many would not notice that and would not care at all, if they´d not have "learned" mainly from the internet that a slightly off centered blade allegedly shows inferior quality. I mean, they would not even notice it (and again, neither in pocket nor in use it CAN even be noticed) - because it just does not affect anything relevant really!
One actually has to put the knife in a certain position and look closely to even see it

While most people will notice the differences between Honda and Mercedes.
Or an uneven grind, which is at least a small functional flaw, since for unexperienced people it might make sharpening harder

But hey, all fine! This is not about right or wrong, I just don´t "feel" myself why an off centered blade can be bothering, and so I wanted to ask. :)

I think the vast majority of people don't notice it. You have to remember that internet forum knife people are still a small part of the knife buying world as a whole. There are knife users and there are knife aficionados, and I think most of what you see are complaints by the AFI's. Really though with how we obsess over everything else like steels and edges, can you blame people for obsessing over other details?


Another thing to consider is the collector perspective. To a guy like me who uses his knives as a tool, it may not matter so much that a blade is off centered since it's going to get beat up with use anyway. To a collector though, aesthetics are everything and the more perfect a knife is the better it is for a collection and the more it will potentially be worth someday.

I think even besides collectors there's another large group of people who are into buying/selling/trading and again the more perfect a knife is, the more it'll be wanted by the next guy.


Have you ever heard of "placed olives"? If not look up the difference between thrown and placed olives. That's how picky people are about details. It's in our DNA. It's how we choose a mate. We are hard wired to seek out and spot differences and irregularities.

[Wartstein]

Comparison.

I'm going to pay 100-200-300 dollars for a knife, and if there is a possibility of misalignments, and on another model/producer/factory isn't (especially if the price on the model with consistently better finish is lower, let alone much lower), I would be pretty frustrated.

Of course geometrically speaking a slightly off centered blade is "misaligned", since it is not totally parallel to the insides of the scales.
But if seen a bit broader: WHY is this "misaligned"?? Who decided that absolute symmetry of a blade inside the scales (again, as long as there is no functional implication at all) is "better " finish, let alone higher quality?!

Sure, the point is that it is that way cause a majority of people see it like that and perhaps because "symmetry" often times is what human beings want or see as "perfect". And I admit that this is a strong point.

Still, why it came to the point that something functionally totally irrelevant, not to be seen and perceived in pocket and use, something one really has to look for in a certain position became a such highly rated feature is a bit of miracle to me...

[Notsurewhy]

Comparison.

I'm going to pay 100-200-300 dollars for a knife, and if there is a possibility of misalignments, and on another model/producer/factory isn't (especially if the price on the model with consistently better finish is lower, let alone much lower), I would be pretty frustrated.

Of course geometrically speaking a slightly off centered blade is "misaligned", since it is not totally parallel to the insides of the scales.
But if seen a bit broader: WHY is this "misaligned"?? Who decided that absolute symmetry of a blade inside the scales (again, as long as there is no functional implication at all) is "better " finish, let alone higher quality?!

Sure, the point is that it is that way cause a majority of people see it like that and perhaps because "symmetry" often times is what human beings want or see as "perfect". And I admit that this is a strong point.

Still, why it came to the point that something functionally totally irrelevant, not to be seen and perceived in pocket and use, something one really has to look for in a certain position became a such highly rated feature is a bit of miracle to me...

If it's designed that way, and they are all of center, that's fine but weird. But no one designs knives that way to my knowledge.

So if the knife wasn't designed that way, it means their manufacturing tolerances and/or QC failed. Neither is good. If they failed in this simple, very noticable detail, where have they failed where it matters and I might not be able to see, like the lock or the heat treatment?

If I got into a car to take a test drive and the steering wheel was 30 degrees off center with the wheels straight, I'm not buying the car. It wouldn't affect function, the wheel is round after all, but I'm not trusting someone who can't be bothered to screw on a wheel straight with my brakes or engine.

My blades don't have to be perfect, dead center, but if they aren't close, they aren't trying and I'm not buying.

[pantagana23]

Comparison.

I'm going to pay 100-200-300 dollars for a knife, and if there is a possibility of misalignments, and on another model/producer/factory isn't (especially if the price on the model with consistently better finish is lower, let alone much lower), I would be pretty frustrated.

Of course geometrically speaking a slightly off centered blade is "misaligned", since it is not totally parallel to the insides of the scales.
But if seen a bit broader: WHY is this "misaligned"?? Who decided that absolute symmetry of a blade inside the scales (again, as long as there is no functional implication at all) is "better " finish, let alone higher quality?!

Sure, the point is that it is that way cause a majority of people see it like that and perhaps because "symmetry" often times is what human beings want or see as "perfect". And I admit that this is a strong point.

Still, why it came to the point that something functionally totally irrelevant, not to be seen and perceived in pocket and use, something one really has to look for in a certain position became a such highly rated feature is a bit of miracle to me...

I narrowed my view to blade centering here only, but there are a number of things that can be viewed as faulty.

As an engineer I have a professional deformation to analyze everything, and I look why the imperfections are there (I would just lose my mind if I didn't go to the end of explanation :D).
It is always visible from where the problem originates, so when I see that I have a squeaky opening because the blade is not on 90 degrees with the lock, or the holes for the blade pivot are not drilled in the intended location but 1 milimeter up or down (causing the famous misalignment with the lock), or the pivot tolerance is too big so you cannot have the proper blade, it just makes me sad.

[Wartstein]

I narrowed my view to blade centering here only, but there are a number of things that can be viewed as faulty.

As an engineer I have a professional deformation to analyze everything, and I look why the imperfections are there (I would just lose my mind if I didn't go to the end of explanation :D).
It is always visible from where the problem originates, so when I see that I have a squeaky opening because the blade is not on 90 degrees with the lock, or the holes for the blade pivot are not drilled in the intended location but 1 milimeter up or down (causing the famous misalignment with the lock), or the pivot tolerance is too big so you cannot have the proper blade, it just makes me sad.

100% agreed! But this is the kind of off cenering that actually DOES have practical implications on functionality and or longetivity...

But I mean the "obsession" (again, not meant offensive!) about the tip of an Endura that is s tad to the left or right, and people make this a major point concerning quality and (personal) value of the knife..

[pantagana23]

100% agreed! But this is the kind of off cenering that actually DOES have practical implications on functionality and or longetivity...

But I mean the "obsession" (again, not meant offensive!) about the tip of an Endura that is s tad to the left or right, and people make this a major point concerning quality and (personal) value of the knife..

Let me give you my last example.
Delica GITD will not drop shut if the screw is not loose. If I tighten it, blade will move a bit off center. So I tightened it. But it came loose again.
Now let's go in depth:
The pivot is a few tenths of a milimeter short, unlike Native which is a 100th of a milimeter precise. The pivot is offset not by 90 degrees from the handle, but maybe 89-89.5, causing the blade to move off center when you tighten.
The pivot screw unscrews itself after a few openings because the dent in the circle of the liners is bigger than on the pivot (have a picture somewhere). If you tighten it loosely so the blade is centered and it drops shut, it will unscrew again even with blue Loctite.

My solution - tighten so the Loctite works. Will not drop shut, but I don't care.
I paid 140 dollars for this knife.

[Wartstein]

Good points, but imho a folder is not designed to have a 100% centered blade, but to have a blade that fits perfectly between the scales without touching those, and as long as it achieves this it does not matter if it is slightly to left or right.
A "30 degree off center steering wheel" is something different: ALWAYS perceivable in use or while just sitting in the car plus really A LOT "off".
One would probably not even notice a steering wheel that is as minor "off" as a slightly uncentered blade. The latter can only be perceived due to the very close reference points the two scales give (and not when the knife is open or in pocket).
So actually it is much like as if the clip screw holes are drilled a fraction of a mm more up or down on the handle. No one would notice, cause there are no such reference points.

[M Sea]

I'm not thrilled if it's not centered, but as long as it's not rubbing on the liner/scale, I can live with it. I've been able to tinker with most to get them centered, but I have a few that are slightly off. No biggie in my book.

I am with you on this, not a huge deal as long as it’s not rubbing.

[Bloke]

Has anyone here ever bought any production knife from any manufacturer that was 100% perfect? Or anything else for that matter, gun, boots, etc. etc. that was 100% perfect?

I know I haven’t. The closest I’ve got to perfect in a knife is a S110V PM2. Even that (when I throw my toolmaker’s eye into focus) I can fault.

If the blade isn’t central maybe the heat treat, lock and fixtures are dodgy too doesn’t make too much sense to this little bloke. It’s like saying a guns trigger has a little creep or something so maybe the thing hasn’t been headspaced and the barrel’s likely bent.

I’m tipping that the good people at Spyderco do their level best to centralise all blades. That said how long should someone assembling the knife spend to get it the blade dead centre? How much extra are you prepared to pay to have your knife tuned to perfection out of the box?

How many times have you other tinkerers like myself centralised a blade, got it dead right, torqued screws, flicked it open, closed it and found it moved?

I reckon if you expect perfection from production anything your barking up the wrong tree.

Anyhow, just my $AU0.02c worth. :rolleyes:

[DutchBlades]

It heightens the general sense of quality and fit and finish.
Besides that, there are some knives where the blade will rub against the inside of the liner/frame when off-centered too far.
This will cause scuff marks or scratches on the blade, and that is no bueno.

[Cambertree]

Don't wanna derail the thread so I won't mention lock rock.

Oh man, yeah, best you don’t mention that, ‘cos that’ll really get me going! :D :D

Regarding blade centring, I guess there’s two issues at play.

One - is it because the blade’s warped or ground off centre? I agree that’s unacceptable on a high quality knife.

Two - Is it because of screw tension or slightly bent liners, or both? That can easily be fixed with a little tweaking.

The second issue is what I mostly see in Spydies which are slightly off centre in the blade channel when closed. It’s pretty easy to fix.

I’d rather a blade be centred than not, and I used to worry about very slight off centre blades more than I do now.

But at the end of the day, unless it’s getting pretty bad, I don’t worry about it enough to tinker with it, anymore.

If I’m fitting custom scales or dismantling a knife for cleaning, I’ll take the time to centre the blade on reassembly.

I just checked the knives in my pocket which I was using at work today - the SE Pac Salt 2 and the K390 Dragonfly, which I put in my pocket through force of habit, although I meant to grab the ZDP189 DF2 this morning. They’re both pretty good regarding centring but they’re still a fraction of a mil off if I examine them hard enough. But I wouldn’t have been able to tell you what they were like if I hadn’t looked just now.

I guess priorities can change over time ...

But I’m not really much of a collector. They’re going to get scuffed up, and worn, and need some readjustment over time, and I’m ok with that.

Thick blade grinds on the other hand... :D :p