Why are so many people concerned with perfect blade centering?

[Slash]

Maybe because they spent over $200 for single knife???

I´ll give it one last try, since I find it almost a bit sad how people almost deliberately seem to misunderstand what´s the point here:

That (highlighted) question actually is a bit weird in the context of this thread: Sounds like as if the purpose here would be to tell people "you are mad to care for perfect centering" or even "I am annoyed by your preference for perfect centering and want you to stop that".
When in fact is has been made clear several times and literally, that their is full respect and understanding for those who care for that level of symmetry.
The highligthed question is not even logical: If one asked: "Why do so many people want a red car", he is not concerned with the PEOPLE who want a red car and has no issues with them wanting a red car, but is only interested in their reasoning.

/ Look at the pic below: Two (for me) perfect knives. The Manix is perfectly centered, the Endura is not.

Now I´d ask everyone to be honest with themselves:

- Imagine, no one would ever have mentioned that extremely perfect centering is a thing. It would just not exist as a "quality criteria" (again: We are talking about functionally still perfect here. No rubbing on the inside of the scales or the like)

- How many of you would even notice a point that is off centered by a fraction of a millimeter like on the Endura in the pic?
- How many would even check if the centering is perfect?
- How many would see it as a "flaw" and reduced quality?

I am sure some still WOULD, no doubt!
But I am convinced: A large part of folks has just "heard" and "learned" that this "should" be an relevant issue

Really, this is no critique and not meant to offend anyone.
It is, among other aspects, just an example for how far we came away from just appreciating a perfect (cutting) tool, but are concerned with tiny details one has to deliberately look for or even to be told that they ARE an issue at all. And have nothing to do with the knife as a TOOL.

And, to be clear: This is 100% true for me too, of course!!! Just in other areas, where others might not be as concerned as I am with tiny details.

Don't put a question in the title and NOT expect others to give you their reasons and opinions and try to dismiss them and think your correct.

Enjoy your off-centered knives and I'll enjoy my centered ones. Some of which were off-centered from factory, adjusted(by me) to perfecty centered and some of those that got adjusted were sold. Now you're gonna ask. Did I "adjust" it for my satisfaction or for the "new" owners...just cause I care that much about someone else's opinions and wanted to give them the satisfaction of owning an expensive "PERFECT" tool they can add to THEIR collection.

This is a "cursed" thread somehow... perhaps just should get deleted.
Or is it just the internet and people like to vent and let steam off.
Or are just used to everything being a personal "attack" and argument.

With all due respect, Sir: You seem to not really reply to my actual post. Parade read that one again. (and several posts of mine before):

- I LITERALLY said that I fully get, understand and respect when people like perfect centering
- I made clear that a lot of people of course and naturally will value perfect symmetry, and that this is perfectly fine and understandable, and, as said, just natural. Just as I made clear that I myself care for details on knives that others might not even see too.
- I never dismissed any opinion.
- I never said that I´d be correct, this clearly is not even about who´s "correct and who´s not"
- All I am saying is... well, you could have read that actually before your replied - that I think:
The "perfect blade centering thing" is to a part a quality criteria, that some (SOME!) people would not see as such, if they would not have heard that it should be an issue (in my case: It never occurred to me for years to even look if a blade tip was off centered for a fraction of a mm, like on the pic of the Endura above, before I heard that this even is something to look for)
- And I discussed this just as an interesting example for how the way we (we!) are looking on "perfect tools" has shifted and now includes things that have nothing to do anymore with if a knife that is perfect as such - as a cutting tool. But nowadays a very slight asymmetry, that can only be seen when the knife is not ready for use anyway (so closed), and when deliberately looking from a certain perspective on it, is a thing. Again: THIS IS FINE of course. Just interesting.

So: No need to get mad. It was perfectly obvious all the time that I am absolutely fine with and happy when people enjoy 100% centered blades.
(And of course: When I sell folders, I either make perfectly clear (with pics) that and how much a blade is off centered (if this is the case), or center it before selling the knife and check if this is a permanent adjustment (for it is easy to temporarely center a blade just for a pic).

Who's mad??? You're just wrong in the aspect that you just DON'T understand knife aficionados. I know sal does as he even touched on it in some yt video I watched several years back.
We can agree on one thing though. That's KILL this thread. OP just DOESN'T get it nor accepts OTHER people's opinions as it is. After over 2-3 years I think I remember why I stop coming and posting here...

FYI, If you don't strive for "PERFECTION" in your life, then you're just left with something that is less than perfect.

Would you ALSO accept a concrete slab that's NOT level or close to level as it should be? How bout some exterior wall framing that's kinda close to plumb....
Pretty sure we could go on and on about what's right and wrong. NOTHING wrong with a knife that has a "centered" blade. But, NOBODY appreciates spending THEIR $ for one that's NOT regardless of cost. ESPECIALLY if that knife was a few hundred dollar bills though.

[nerdlock]

I've hesitated posting on here since this complaint has been going on since time immemorial, and both sides do make compelling arguments. I think discourse in here is helpful in a way, to help Spyderco see what can be done to improve the chief complaint of users in this thread, and that is to improve blade centering.

I don't think at all that this is an immature or selfish request, as many have pointed out, if other knife brands out there with cheaper price points can make blade centering a consistent quality with their products, how much more Spyderco with all the technology they have at their disposal.

One major request I have with regards to the topic at hand, and this is not the first time I have said something about this nor maybe the last time, is for CQI of the Para3 LW with regards to its one washer construction, which I believe is the root cause of its chronic off-centeredness. I am up to 8 Para3 LWs now (this is an old pic from last year) and all of them have over time developed a severe case of off-centering.





I do believe that Spyderco is listening to their customers as long as requests are valid, and I believe a CQI of the Para3 LW is one of them. I'm spending about an average of 140$ not including shipping to my side of the world for each of my Para3 LWs and for the price, I firmly believe that it should come centered, or at least not develop severe off-centering over time, which unfortunately might be probably caused by the pivot area construction.

[Slash]

I've hesitated posting on here since this complaint has been going on since time immemorial, and both sides do make compelling arguments. I think discourse in here is helpful in a way, to help Spyderco see what can be done to improve the chief complaint of users in this thread, and that is to improve blade centering.

I don't think at all that this is an immature or selfish request, as many have pointed out, if other knife brands out there with cheaper price points can make blade centering a consistent quality with their products, how much more Spyderco with all the technology they have at their disposal.

One major request I have with regards to the topic at hand, and this is not the first time I have said something about this nor maybe the last time, is for CQI of the Para3 LW with regards to its one washer construction, which I believe is the root cause of its chronic off-centeredness. I am up to 8 Para3 LWs now (this is an old pic from last year) and all of them have over time developed a severe case of off-centering.





I do believe that Spyderco is listening to their customers as long as requests are valid, and I believe a CQI of the Para3 LW is one of them. I'm spending about an average of 140$ not including shipping to my side of the world for each of my Para3 LWs and for the price, I firmly believe that it should come centered, or at least not develop severe off-centering over time, which unfortunately might be probably caused by the pivot area construction.

Wish I could help and give some type of input on how to rectify those. Unfortunately I don't think I have ever edc a para 3 lw. Thus, wouldn't know the root cause of what might be causing them to do that with wear if they came centered from the factory. I would start with basic stuff. But, I think and DON'T recommend at all unless have some knowledge would be disassemble and reassemble of blade parts, etc.
That's if and I'm pretty sure you probably already tried to tighten the pivot screws??? Maybe, just maybe if you flip the pivot(if possible depending on design being concentric?) could realign the blade and/or move/replace washers??? GL and hope any input helps. Just trying to use some logic and common sense as I know it.

[kobold]

I've hesitated posting on here since this complaint has been going on since time immemorial, and both sides do make compelling arguments. I think discourse in here is helpful in a way, to help Spyderco see what can be done to improve the chief complaint of users in this thread, and that is to improve blade centering.

I don't think at all that this is an immature or selfish request, as many have pointed out, if other knife brands out there with cheaper price points can make blade centering a consistent quality with their products, how much more Spyderco with all the technology they have at their disposal.

One major request I have with regards to the topic at hand, and this is not the first time I have said something about this nor maybe the last time, is for CQI of the Para3 LW with regards to its one washer construction, which I believe is the root cause of its chronic off-centeredness. I am up to 8 Para3 LWs now (this is an old pic from last year) and all of them have over time developed a severe case of off-centering.





I do believe that Spyderco is listening to their customers as long as requests are valid, and I believe a CQI of the Para3 LW is one of them. I'm spending about an average of 140$ not including shipping to my side of the world for each of my Para3 LWs and for the price, I firmly believe that it should come centered, or at least not develop severe off-centering over time, which unfortunately might be probably caused by the pivot area construction.

Another case of asymmetry firing back. And while we are at it, all LW/FRN models should have PB washers (two!) IMO.

[Wartstein]

...

....

....
- I LITERALLY said that I fully get, understand and respect when people like perfect centering
- I made clear that a lot of people of course and naturally will value perfect symmetry, and that this is perfectly fine and understandable, and, as said, just natural. Just as I made clear that I myself care for details on knives that others might not even see too.
- I never dismissed any opinion.
- I never said that I´d be correct, this clearly is not even about who´s "correct and who´s not"
.....
.... THIS IS FINE of course. Just interesting.
....

Who's mad??? You're just wrong in the aspect that you just DON'T understand knife aficionados. I know sal does as he even touched on it in some yt video I watched several years back.
We can agree on one thing though. That's KILL this thread. OP just DOESN'T get it nor accepts OTHER people's opinions as it is. After over 2-3 years I think I remember why I stop coming and posting here...

FYI, If you don't strive for "PERFECTION" in your life, then you're just left with something that is less than perfect.

Would you ALSO accept a concrete slab that's NOT level or close to level as it should be? How bout some exterior wall framing that's kinda close to plumb....
Pretty sure we could go on and on about what's right and wrong. NOTHING wrong with a knife that has a "centered" blade. But, NOBODY appreciates spending THEIR $ for one that's NOT regardless of cost. ESPECIALLY if that knife was a few hundred dollar bills though.

Hey Slash,

first and foremost: My honest apologies for using the term "mad". I know this sounds like a cheap excuse, but being not a Native Speaker in English I just now (and after looking up all its meanings in a dictionary) realize how you probably must have perceived this. I just wanted to say: We both don´t have to argue over if I get, respect and value that a large part of folks care for 100% perfect centering... since I literally said and prooved that several times.

That you still feel the OP (= me ) would "not accept and get others opinions" is beyond me, honestly and without wanting to offend you. Perhaps you really just did not actually read my posts for whatever reason (they usually ARE lengthy and cumbersome indeed, I know).
This has NEVER been about who is right or wrong, I never SAID anyone would be "wrong" -. but if you choose to see it that way - so be it. I think I can´t make it any clearer what my intention here was.
... (EDIT: Part deleted. Could have lead to just more arguments)
... Perfection for ME happens to depend not at all on if a tip is a tiny tad to the right or left inside a handle.
I would not care at all if a blade is a tiny tad off centered even in a 1000 dollar knife. (For me (me personally!) caring for this would be on a level with measuring if each body screw head on the knife has the exact same diameter, or if there are tiny deviations).
For you and obviously many others that DOES count though, which is 100 % fine too - as stated like 20 times already.

[Wartstein]

I think maybe part of your issue with all this is the part about you seeing it as such a small detail that non knife people wouldn't see it.

We are not non knife people

This argument may not make a difference to my wife. It may not make a difference to a guy spending $10 for his knife at a flea market. It absolutely matters to me spending $200.

Somewhere out there is a guy who isn't "educated" and if he never sees it and never cares then his life will be simpler for it. I do see it, I'm well aware of it and I will not fault myself for being aware of it and disliking it. There was a time when all of us were probably much more satisfied by much lower end steels but we learn and we grow and our expectations grow too. My understanding of what makes an excellent knife has grown leaps and bounds and part of that is expecting high levels of fit and finish. And yes I know the difference between production and custom and I don't see this as unreasonable in even the slightest miniscule way.

And for the record I don't think anyone here is directing their responses at you specifically (I mean, beyond quotes for just random discussion). I know you brought this demon spawn into this world but at this point it has grown beyond your control and we don't blame you for it

Well - this (yellow highlighted part) soothes my soul...it would be a heavy burden to bear... :smiling-cheeks

/ Generally I think this isn´t even a "we agree to disagree" thing - I honestly just can´t "feel" that a slightly off centered blade is anything like a "lower end steel" - you make that comparison though, and both is fine. We are just "different knife guys" regarding the centering thing. Even if I came to a point where I´d be satisfied exclusively with Vanax or S110 V or whatever - I still would not care for a slightly off centered blade at all. And if I never had heard that for many this is an issue... it honestly would never have occured to me that anyone could see this as a "flaw" (though, when "symmetry = perfection" it technically certainly IS, no doubt).

I think the underlying theme and the actual intention of this thread somehow is: What would change concerning how even "knife people" see and value knives, if only their own, natural "feelings and categories" were into play. And if they never heard anything about what others see as flaws or not. Would they enjoy and value knives more? Or less? Both could be the case imho.

[Evil D]

I think maybe part of your issue with all this is the part about you seeing it as such a small detail that non knife people wouldn't see it.

We are not non knife people

This argument may not make a difference to my wife. It may not make a difference to a guy spending $10 for his knife at a flea market. It absolutely matters to me spending $200.

Somewhere out there is a guy who isn't "educated" and if he never sees it and never cares then his life will be simpler for it. I do see it, I'm well aware of it and I will not fault myself for being aware of it and disliking it. There was a time when all of us were probably much more satisfied by much lower end steels but we learn and we grow and our expectations grow too. My understanding of what makes an excellent knife has grown leaps and bounds and part of that is expecting high levels of fit and finish. And yes I know the difference between production and custom and I don't see this as unreasonable in even the slightest miniscule way.

And for the record I don't think anyone here is directing their responses at you specifically (I mean, beyond quotes for just random discussion). I know you brought this demon spawn into this world but at this point it has grown beyond your control and we don't blame you for it

Well - this (yellow highlighted part) soothes my soul...it would be a heavy burden to bear... :smiling-cheeks

/ Generally I think this isn´t even a "we agree to disagree" thing - I honestly just can´t "feel" that a slightly off centered blade is anything like a "lower end steel" - you make that comparison though, and both is fine. We are just "different knife guys" regarding the centering thing. Even if I came to a point where I´d be satisfied exclusively with Vanax or S110 V or whatever - I still would not care for a slightly off centered blade at all. And if I never had heard that for many this is an issue... it honestly would never have occured to me that anyone could see this as a "flaw" (though, when "symmetry = perfection" it technically certainly IS, no doubt).

I think the underlying theme and the actual intention of this thread somehow is: What would change concerning how even "knife people" see and value knives, if only their own, natural "feelings and categories" were into play. And if they never heard anything about what others see as flaws or not. Would they enjoy and value knives more? Or less? Both could be the case imho.

If you look at centering vs steel type as a literal comparison, then no it isn't very direct. The point is abo and a person's change in standards. This boils down to me having higher expectations than you, which isn't a bad thing, it just is what it is. I'm not willing to compromise on it while you are. In the end this is such a trivial thing, it's not like we're mortal enemies now lol. Some things I can overlook, some things I can't. We all have our hangups.

[ladybug93]

we don't blame you for it

speak for yourself...

[Wartstein]

we don't blame you for it

speak for yourself...

/ But honestly: This is a weird thread.
Firstly because it got resurrected in the first place (no idea how. It must have been buried quite deep on page xxx already)
And then people feel attacked when there is no attack... Make it about who´s wrong or right, when this has never been of any relevance at all.
Just not really like it usually goes here...
Cursed zombie-demon-thread...

[Wartstein]

If you look at centering vs steel type as a literal comparison, then no it isn't very direct. The point is abo and a person's change in standards. This boils down to me having higher expectations than you, which isn't a bad thing, it just is what it is. I'm not willing to compromise on it while you are. In the end this is such a trivial thing, it's not like we're mortal enemies now lol. Some things I can overlook, some things I can't. We all have our hangups.

This.
Not "mortal enemies" at all of course. This is what some here seem to not understand. Nothing personal...

/ I think it is not even like I´d have lower expectations than you have. Rather like we perhaps have different categories in which we have expectations at all. For me a slightly off centered blade vs a perfectly centered one is just like red vs blue. Neither is "better" or of higher quality, they are just different. And if a large group came to the opinion that red or blue is "better", I would totally respect that, but could not "feel" it myself.

[Naperville]

It's also a telltale of quality work

The first page had the answer.

[ladybug93]

[Molle Ninja]

For the same reason if I buy a car I want the steering wheel straight. Or fence posts. Aesthetics.

Or if I hired someone to deliver professional services they should have their hair combed and not smell. Attention to detail in appearance leads people to believe other corners aren’t cut.

[TkoK83Spy]

I did not expect this to continue on after the first day it was revived, but...here we are!! I like the meme above though haha!

[kennethsime]

we don't blame you for it

speak for yourself...

Gernot, I find I must apologize - I’ve been calling you Warstein for years, rather than Wartstein. Mea culpa.

[ykspydiefan]

Part of peoples nature I guess to pick a side and pick a fight. Finding the middle ground should be way easier than this thread. I like the middle ground in most things, knife centering included. I accept I am not paying enough to expect perfection. I know what to expect in a folder and none of mine are off enough to worry about.

[Wartstein]

The curse also is: People can OPEN threads, but not close them again (unless they are magic Kristi... )

[Wartstein]

we don't blame you for it

speak for yourself...
...

Gernot, I find I must apologize - I’ve been calling you Warstein for years, rather than Wartstein. Mea culpa.

No need to apologize... Many here call me "Warstein" (including Sal) instead of WarTstein, does not matter by any means. The former term seems to sound a lot more "natural" to English speaking folks. Sometimes I even figure "Warstein" might have a martial ring to some (cause of the "war" part in the name), which really would not fit my character...

Actually the "Wartstein" is a peak not far away from where I live. At the time when I joined the forum, one of my projects was an old climbing route up to its top (called "Wartsteinkante" = "Wartstein-arete"), and so I spontaneously I chose it as my forum name.
The Wartsteinkante is not a really difficult climb for todays standards, but back then in the 1930ies it was one of the hardest routes around and is still a cool line, where one still has to use the old pitons from back then (now 90 years old...not exactly trustworthy anymore... ).

The name "Wartstein" (for that peak) itself consists of the terms "Warte" - "warten" actually is "to wait" in English, but "Warte" is an old term for "look out" - and "Stein'" - "Stein" actually is "stone" or "rock" in English, but in this context it is meant more like "high rock/boulder" or "peak".
So Wartstein means something like "Look-out peak"... but in an rather ancient form of German.

[Wartstein]

I did not expect this to continue on after the first day it was revived, but...here we are!! I like the meme above though haha!

Be prepared - however this works, I fear the monster I innocently created will rise again and again and claim its bloodprice each time around...

[Wartstein]

For the same reason if I buy a car I want the steering wheel straight. Or fence posts. Aesthetics.

Or if I hired someone to deliver professional services they should have their hair combed and not smell. Attention to detail in appearance leads people to believe other corners aren’t cut.

This (highlighted) is certainly true. But still a matter of personal perception:

- For you a slightly off centered blade might be like an "uncombed, smelly service person" (though I dare to say: It is not really the SAME for you? I could be wrong though of course)
- For me insisting on 100% perfect centering would be like demanding the service person who perhaps repairs my washing machine to come in suit and tie...
Both ways to see it are equally fine imo.

/
I actually just did an interesting "experiment":
- I showed five (admittedly "non knife"!) persons some Spydies of mine.
- Some of those knives have slightly off centered blades (like the Endura in the pic in previous posts), some happen to be perfectly centered.
- Then I asked these people to take their time, look at the folders thoroughly and from every possible angle and perspective, and search for every, even the tiniest, imperfection they could find.
- Result: NO ONE said anything about the slightly off centered blades. They just did not even see it. Despite they otherwise detected tiny imperfections even I myself had never seen (like tiny dings in the FRN) - or for example that my Delica has one black instead of the otherwise silver clip screws...

Now again: This is NOT representative for "knife people" of course, who look on folders in a different way!
But then: All of my "test persons" certainly WOULD have easily detected "off centered steering wheels" or "lopsided fence posts" and certainly not liked "smelly persons" - despite they are also not "car persons" or "experts on fences".
This result could at least be a hint, that a "slightly off centered blade" is not necessarily a general, "natural by all seen as such" aesthetic flaw.
Again, just to avoid another argument: Of course this "experiment" would have had a different outcome with "knife people" as "probands" (though it would be interesting to know how it would have went with "knife people who never heard that an off centered blade is an "issue")