UF OR TRANSLUCENT STONE?

[bamafaninky]

I already own a Spyderco Fine. One side was lapped to 1000 grit. Would my next stone need to be a UF or a translucent? Thanks for the advice.

[sal]

Hi Bamafaninky,

Welcome to our forum.

When we make the ultra fine, it starts out as a fine grit and is diamond lapped to grit down. How did you determine the grit to be 1000?

sal

[TkoK83Spy]

Translucent stone?? I'm not familiar with that term when it comes to sharpening stones.

[Pancake]

Translucent stone is a type of Arkansas stone. IIRC, Arkansas stones are sedimentary rocks, basically a silicon oxide, SiO2.
They are rated based upon the density, lower density ones cuts faster and they are ,,lower,, in grit rating. High density ones have finer grit.

I would get UF stone, just because it's ceramic, which is a bit harder abrasive as Arkansas stone.

[Deadboxhero]

Translucent stone?? I'm not familiar with that term when it comes to sharpening stones.

Translucent arkansas natural stone.

Novaculite mineral is the abrasive, it's softer than ceramic.

It goes coarse to fine from Washita, soft arkansas, hard arkansas, surgical black then translucent.


However depending of the density of the stone surgical black could be finer but translucent is slightly harder to come by.

[Doc Dan]

Well, I learned something new, today. I had no idea there was such a thing as a translucent Arkansas Stone.

[Cambertree]

I’d go with the Spyderco UF over a translucent Arkansas. It’s a very nice finishing stone.

[fixall]

What type of steel are you sharpening? I still like to use my Arkansas stones on simple carbon steels (I use a soft and translucent directly after coming off the Norton Crystolon and India), but they are no match for some of today's steels and the carbides that come along with them.

[MFlovejp]

Hard to illustrate, but this is a wet translucent Arkansas stone. It has a milky opalescent effect. They’re really pretty and interesting to use. I want to get the UF stones for my sharpmaker.

[fixall]

I like to use a flashlight and a dark room to show off my translucent Arkansas stones. :)




As far as the question from the OP goes... To me, my 2" x 8" translucent FEELS like it is kind of in between the Spyderco Fine and Ultra Fine... Probably a bit closer to the UF. That being said, not all Arkansas stones are created equal, and I've been told numerous times that the translucent and surgical black Arkansas stones mined a couple of decades ago were finer than their counterparts sold today. For me, the difference between the Fine, tranlucent, and Ultra Fine stones is too small to use in a progression and I don't really like the feel of going back and forth from natural stones to ceramic and diamond.

I typically progress through simple carbon steels with a Norton Crystolon, Norton India, Arkansas Soft, Arkansas Translucent, and then strops.

For more complex and stainless steels, I use a DMT Coarse, DMT Fine, Spyderco Medium (I use a DMT Extra Fine in place of the Spyderco Medium on more difficult steels), Spyderco Fine, Spyderco Ultra Fine (sometimes skipped), and then strops.

I just picked up a Spyderco CBN Bench Stone which I hope to rotate in in place of the DMT benchstone soon too. :)

[arty]

I have an old black Arkansas stone that I was given more than 60 years ago, more current translucent and black stones, a Norton Lily White Arkansas stone, Norton Soft Arkansas stones, and a variety of Spyderco ceramic stones and DMT diamond stones. I also have too many water stones.
I restrict use of the Arkansas stones to high carbon tool steel, and use ceramics or diamond stones on stainless.
The intended use of a knife blade or other blade determines my choice of edge finish. For cutting veggetables, I am likely to stop with 1200 grit DMT. For a plane iron, I go to the use of a strop after a series of natural Arkansas stones. A good black Arkansas will be somewhat finer than any translucent stone, but there is a lot of individual variability in stone finish when new and the stones themselves. I have two soft Arkansas stones by Norton - one is lousy and the other one is excellent. In my experience, the new stones are just as good as the old ones, if made by Norton or Dan’s.
If you are trying to sharpen something like S30V or ZDP189, I would go with Spyderco and DMT stones. I rarely ever use crystolon stones, or coarse stones. If I am sharpening a knife blade, and can’t do it with a coarse India, I go to the belt sander. I rarely let any knife blade get so dull that I can’t just do a touch-up with something like an extra fine DMT followed by a Spyderco fine ceramic. I have given up using strops for knife blades, though I generally make use of them when sharpening tool blades, like plane irons.

[JD Spydo]

Translucent stone?? I'm not familiar with that term when it comes to sharpening stones.

I think he's talking about those "translucent" Arkansas stones ( novaculite). Those translucent Arkansas Stones are a big favorite of woodworkers I've learned over the years.

But my advise to the OP is that you can't go wrong with one of Spyderco's ULTRA-FINE stones. I use all 3 of mine often. I love the results I get on certain blade steels.

[legOFwhat?]

Hello and welcome bamafaninky!

[Steeltoez83]

I own both so that would be a fun set of tests comparing both Stones on a variety of steels. I'd lean a little more towards the ultra fine if your previous stone is the fine ceramic.

[JD Spydo]

I have an old black Arkansas stone that I was given more than 60 years ago, more current translucent and black stones, a Norton Lily White Arkansas stone, Norton Soft Arkansas stones, and a variety of Spyderco ceramic stones and DMT diamond stones. I also have too many water stones.
I restrict use of the Arkansas stones to high carbon tool steel, and use ceramics or diamond stones on stainless.
The intended use of a knife blade or other blade determines my choice of edge finish. For cutting veggetables, I am likely to stop with 1200 grit DMT. For a plane iron, I go to the use of a strop after a series of natural Arkansas stones. A good black Arkansas will be somewhat finer than any translucent stone, but there is a lot of individual variability in stone finish when new and the stones themselves. I have two soft Arkansas stones by Norton - one is lousy and the other one is excellent. In my experience, the new stones are just as good as the old ones, if made by Norton or Dan’s.
If you are trying to sharpen something like S30V or ZDP189, I would go with Spyderco and DMT stones. I rarely ever use crystolon stones, or coarse stones. If I am sharpening a knife blade, and can’t do it with a coarse India, I go to the belt sander. I rarely let any knife blade get so dull that I can’t just do a touch-up with something like an extra fine DMT followed by a Spyderco fine ceramic. I have given up using strops for knife blades, though I generally make use of them when sharpening tool blades, like plane irons.

Hey "Arty"? Have you ever heard of an Arkansas "Blue-Black" stone. I have one of those and they are sort of translucent and extremely hard for a novaculite stone. It is without a doubt the hardest novaculite stone I've ever owned.

The reason I ask is because the old woodworker I bought this one from also had just a plain black one as well. But he always used the "Blue-Black" stone to finish with.

There are different grades and types of novaculite. The only place I that I really trust that I know where to get the good novaculite stones is at Garrett Wade Co. Also I've heard that there is a dealer known as Dan's Whetstones that can still get the high grades of Novaculite. It is getting harder to find for sure.

[GarageBoy]

There's a blue black on ebay right now - not cheap

I heard older norton translucent stones were denser, or is that a myth?

[dj moonbat]

There are definitely materials from nature that we haven’t (yet) been able to surpass with synthetic alternatives. Leather and wood, in particular.

But mankind has Mother Nature beat at the abrasives game. Novaculite crystals in an Arkansas stone can vary a LOT in size, while a factory stone will typically have particles that are the same size down to sub-micron tolerances. And the abrasive can be spaced out in whatever matrix so that you don’t have to keep flushing with kerosene to keep it from glazing quickly.

Arkansas stones have the retro cool factor like tube amplifiers and straight razors. But there are better ways to get the job done.

[JD Spydo]

There are definitely materials from nature that we haven’t (yet) been able to surpass with synthetic alternatives. Leather and wood, in particular.

But mankind has Mother Nature beat at the abrasives game. Novaculite crystals in an Arkansas stone can vary a LOT in size, while a factory stone will typically have particles that are the same size down to sub-micron tolerances. And the abrasive can be spaced out in whatever matrix so that you don’t have to keep flushing with kerosene to keep it from glazing quickly.

Arkansas stones have the retro cool factor like tube amplifiers and straight razors. But there are better ways to get the job done.

Thanks for that most interesting rundown on Arkansas ( novaculite) stones. Because you pretty much confirm what I've had a couple of old woodworkers have told me over the years. Even the very high grade "Blue-Black" Arkansas Stone I have is really only good for finishing jobs. I haven't used any of the medium or any of the more common grade novaculite stones in probably about 20 years.
And the 3 Spyderco model 302 Benchstones i.e. Fine, ULtra-Fine and Medium>> just those 3 stones alone have almost made all the novaculite stones obsolete IMO. Not to mention the plethora of other man made stones that have hit the market in the past 15 to 20 years.

[bamafaninky]

Hi Bamafaninky,

Welcome to our forum.

When we make the ultra fine, it starts out as a fine grit and is diamond lapped to grit down. How did you determine the grit to be 1000?

sal

Thanks for the reply Sal. It is an honor. I purchased a fine ceramic and one side was lapped using 1000 grit sic sandpaper. I'm just wondering if I need Translucent or a UF in progression? I'm guessing the lapped fine is comparable to the uf.

[bamafaninky]

What type of steel are you sharpening? I still like to use my Arkansas stones on simple carbon steels (I use a soft and translucent directly after coming off the Norton Crystolon and India), but they are no match for some of today's steels and the carbides that come along with them.

I don't own any supersteels. The most "exotic" is 440C.