Knife lubricating agents

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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PStone
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#21

Post by PStone »

pantagana23 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:49 am
PStone wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:06 pm
Silicone sprays typically have additives to thin them out. Who knows what those can be. According to the SDS sheet, that stuff is 88% VOC. That’s probably why we don’t have the same stuff in the US. 100% silicone oil would be much better.
Those volatile organic compounds should also be in Ballistol I suppose, and any other spray (aerosol and similar), but noone says anything against Ballistol, so I am not sure why not silicone.

Active compound is polydimethylsiloxane, which is food safe, so VOC should evaporate, and thin silicon oil layer should remain.

I think I should do a test run on a Byrd :D
It’s the propellant in that silicone spray that can be unknown. They’re only required to list voc’s as such. And don’t have to say exactly what they are. But the PMDS itself is indeed quite foodsafe.

But either way, I like how you’re trying new stuff just to see. Overthinking and experimenting make any hobby more interesting. Not just knifes. Most of my “lube knowledge” comes from having children in band. Now those people really overthink lubrication. If you’re looking to try some other synthetic/silicone lubes, music shoppes can be heaven. They have so many choices with different properties. Speed/viscosity ratings and such can be found online for some brands to further your curiosity and experiments.
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Abyss_Fish
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#22

Post by Abyss_Fish »

10 weight nano-oil (I think that’s what you’re using) works great but you have to be super careful with the amount you use. If you Nick Shabazz it and drown your washers in oil you’ll attract quite a lot of grime, but the cool thing about nano-oil is that you need almost none for full effect. Try just a dot or two per washer and then moving the blade a bit once it’s re-assembled to spread it around.


Also the washer-less frn models tend run better without oil entirely in my experience. Try just putting a dot on the tang of your blade where it contacts with the lock and nowhere else if you wear it in and it still is a bit stiff.
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Pokey
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#23

Post by Pokey »

I have a spray can of CRC Heavy Duty Silicone in front of me and the warnings on the label say: "Lubricates metal, rubber, nylon, and wood. DO NOT USE ON PLASTICS."

One of the ingredients listed on the can is acetone. Acetone will melt plastics.

I also have another spray can of silicone spray out in my garage. I forget the brand, but it has oil in it also. I'm not sure what else it has in it.
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#24

Post by The Meat man »

I use CRK fluorinated grease on my Sebenza, and Nano Oil on everything else.

A couple dots in between the moving surfaces will suffice.
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#25

Post by pantagana23 »

Pokey wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:44 pm
I have a spray can of CRC Heavy Duty Silicone in front of me and the warnings on the label say: "Lubricates metal, rubber, nylon, and wood. DO NOT USE ON PLASTICS."

One of the ingredients listed on the can is acetone. Acetone will melt plastics.

I also have another spray can of silicone spray out in my garage. I forget the brand, but it has oil in it also. I'm not sure what else it has in it.
This is what's written for the Valvoline one:

Applications

Door rubbers
Dashboards
Sunshine roofs
Sliding doors
Removes agents for moulds
Creaking plastic parts
Bumpers
Rails (caravan, blinds)
Saw blades

Product characteristics
Excellent adhesion
Water repellent
Prevents freezing and drying out of rubber parts
Prevents creaking and squeaking of plastic parts
Outstanding mechanical and thermal stability
Resistant to water weather influences
Resistant to weak acids and bases
Directed jet spray

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/D ... 162d889bd1

All in all, the only thing left are the volatile compounds, which are not listed.
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#26

Post by derangedhermit »

I suspect that Spyderco knife blade pivots can run for most user's lifetimes with no lubrication.

Nevertheless, on those knives where Spyderco has provided flat surfaces at the pivot, I'll add a drop of Daiwa reel oil, since it is cheap, has a nice needle applicator, and I have it anyway in my tackle box.

Spyderco appears to have the opinion that knife pivot wear is typically very low, since the pivot surfaces are steel on skeletonized FRP on some knives (e.g. Pac Salt 2) - not much bearing surface on the (softer) FRP side. Since some current Spydercos do have tiny (bronze?) washers, I have wished for additional insight on why Spyderco makes the design choices it does regarding blade pivot design.
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#27

Post by JacksonKnives »

JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:19 am
Many of those newer gun lubes have come a long ways as far as lubricity>> they just seem to get better each year. I was told by a friend of mine that Frog Lube is food safe. And I've seen that claimed by quite a few people on certain websites as well. But again I mostly just use fixed blade knives on food so any type of lube is not an issue with me at all. I just want to use what has the best lube properties.
Re: the "newer" lubes and claims of advanced lubricity, remember that some well-regarded lubes, most prominently Froglube, are just dressed-up fatty oils. If they're claimed to be food-safe, it's likely because they're food-based, and you could get similar performance with oils from your pantry.

Froglube specifically is based on an old rollercoaster "tracklube," and it's almost certainly just coconut oil with a wintergreen scent additive. See analysis here. See a broader survey here. See one lube "manufacturer" suing a blogger and chemist over the truth about their soybean-oil-based gun lube here.

I point this out because I think more people in the gun/knife community should be skeptical of the "specialized" claims of lubes. It's not that I think any of the top-dollar lubes won't do their jobs, just that they aren't doing the job any better than a similar oil (similar weight, specifically) that's easy to find at much lower prices. It's not a bad product, but it is deceptive marketing.

For a knife pivot, the two things I really care about are:
  • Oil weight (thinner is better on knives that flick open, but not so thin that it just wicks away)
  • Rust prevention
Nano oil gives you the option of buying different weights, and I respect them for that. Their hype about lubricity is almost 100% baloney. Any oil of a similar weight will give similar results. Identical? I can't say that for sure, as there are too many variables in the actual use of the product, but I'm confident that you could refill most nano-oil applicators with motor oil or ATF of the same weight and nobody would notice.

CRK's fluorinated grease (probably re-packaged Krytox by Chemours/formerly DuPont) is basically the highest-lubricity substance you can find. But it's too thick to use as a grease in many knife pivots. Lower friction coefficients do not always make better lube.

On the list of things that matter for a well-functioning knife pivot, things like alignment of the scales/liners, lockbar pressure and dirt getting trapped in the pivot are infinitely more important than the additive package of the lube.
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#28

Post by kodai78 »

I’m not a chemist. I like 3 in 1 used sparingly. I have some White Lightning bicycle chain lube around which is a liquid wax. Drop or two, work it in by opening and closing the knife, wipe off the film, done. The pivot never contacts the food and the lube doesn’t run onto the blade so I don’t worry though I always use a fixed blade for food.
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#29

Post by MotoBro »

This might be blasphemy here but I prefer Benchmade’s Blue Lube. I just put a drop of it on the bronze washers when I’m swapping scales or hardware on any knife. In my opinion it’s the perfect viscosity so it stays where you put it instead of running everywhere.
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#30

Post by TkoK83Spy »

MotoBro wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:09 am
This might be blasphemy here but I prefer Benchmade’s Blue Lube. I just put a drop of it on the bronze washers when I’m swapping scales or hardware on any knife. In my opinion it’s the perfect viscosity so it stays where you put it instead of running everywhere.
The only thing I've been using the past 3 years. The stuff is great! Doesn't seem to attract pocket lint, dust, etc. I mean, it's literally MADE FOR KNIVES! Kind of a no brainer imo.
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1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut

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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#31

Post by Salty Dog »

JacksonKnives wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:20 am
JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:19 am
Many of those newer gun lubes have come a long ways as far as lubricity>> they just seem to get better each year. I was told by a friend of mine that Frog Lube is food safe. And I've seen that claimed by quite a few people on certain websites as well. But again I mostly just use fixed blade knives on food so any type of lube is not an issue with me at all. I just want to use what has the best lube properties.
Re: the "newer" lubes and claims of advanced lubricity, remember that some well-regarded lubes, most prominently Froglube, are just dressed-up fatty oils. If they're claimed to be food-safe, it's likely because they're food-based, and you could get similar performance with oils from your pantry.

Froglube specifically is based on an old rollercoaster "tracklube," and it's almost certainly just coconut oil with a wintergreen scent additive. See analysis here. See a broader survey here. See one lube "manufacturer" suing a blogger and chemist over the truth about their soybean-oil-based gun lube here.

I point this out because I think more people in the gun/knife community should be skeptical of the "specialized" claims of lubes. It's not that I think any of the top-dollar lubes won't do their jobs, just that they aren't doing the job any better than a similar oil (similar weight, specifically) that's easy to find at much lower prices. It's not a bad product, but it is deceptive marketing.

For a knife pivot, the two things I really care about are:
  • Oil weight (thinner is better on knives that flick open, but not so thin that it just wicks away)
  • Rust prevention
Nano oil gives you the option of buying different weights, and I respect them for that. Their hype about lubricity is almost 100% baloney. Any oil of a similar weight will give similar results. Identical? I can't say that for sure, as there are too many variables in the actual use of the product, but I'm confident that you could refill most nano-oil applicators with motor oil or ATF of the same weight and nobody would notice.

CRK's fluorinated grease (probably re-packaged Krytox by Chemours/formerly DuPont) is basically the highest-lubricity substance you can find. But it's too thick to use as a grease in many knife pivots. Lower friction coefficients do not always make better lube.

On the list of things that matter for a well-functioning knife pivot, things like alignment of the scales/liners, lockbar pressure and dirt getting trapped in the pivot are infinitely more important than the additive package of the lube.
Great post mate
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#32

Post by GarageBoy »

Aren't you're supposed to heat militec 1 to polymerize it to the metal or something?
Bamboo
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#33

Post by Bamboo »

Due to another hobby, I have and have experimented with krytox 205g0, 204g0 and 203g0 greases. Out of which the 205 was a little too viscous and 'hydraulic' feeling, but if spread very thinly the 204 and 203 were spot on. the krytox 103 is an oil, which was also great, and easier to apply without dissasembly. I've tried superlube too, which was a little too viscous, but they also have an oil which should work well.

The great thing about krytox and superlube is that they are food safe, and can be found in smaller quantities for relatively cheap.
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#34

Post by prndltech »

If I’m at the house either ballistol or rem oil, if I’m at work a drop of ATF or motor oil works great.
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#35

Post by JD Spydo »

Pokey wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:44 pm
I have a spray can of CRC Heavy Duty Silicone in front of me and the warnings on the label say: "Lubricates metal, rubber, nylon, and wood. DO NOT USE ON PLASTICS."

One of the ingredients listed on the can is acetone. Acetone will melt plastics.

I also have another spray can of silicone spray out in my garage. I forget the brand, but it has oil in it also. I'm not sure what else it has in it.
That's interesting you mention the CRC line of products. I've used CRC and LPS both in automotive applications for years and they truly worked well. I also used to swear by a silicone lube made by "Slick 50">> I thought Slick 50's lube to be about the best for automotive type stuff.

Stay the heck away from super solvents like Acetone and Methylene Chloride if you have a safer alternative. Those are really dangerous solvents. However if you have a really tough cleaning job they do work well for that. But by all means wear protective rubber gloves when using. Those types of solvents must be used outdoors in a well ventilated area. Also those types of solvents are extremely flammable and potentially dangerous. Be extremely careful with those.
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#36

Post by Pokey »

Salty Dog wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:38 pm
JacksonKnives wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:20 am
JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:19 am
Many of those newer gun lubes have come a long ways as far as lubricity>> they just seem to get better each year. I was told by a friend of mine that Frog Lube is food safe. And I've seen that claimed by quite a few people on certain websites as well. But again I mostly just use fixed blade knives on food so any type of lube is not an issue with me at all. I just want to use what has the best lube properties.
Re: the "newer" lubes and claims of advanced lubricity, remember that some well-regarded lubes, most prominently Froglube, are just dressed-up fatty oils. If they're claimed to be food-safe, it's likely because they're food-based, and you could get similar performance with oils from your pantry.

Froglube specifically is based on an old rollercoaster "tracklube," and it's almost certainly just coconut oil with a wintergreen scent additive. See analysis here. See a broader survey here. See one lube "manufacturer" suing a blogger and chemist over the truth about their soybean-oil-based gun lube here.

I point this out because I think more people in the gun/knife community should be skeptical of the "specialized" claims of lubes. It's not that I think any of the top-dollar lubes won't do their jobs, just that they aren't doing the job any better than a similar oil (similar weight, specifically) that's easy to find at much lower prices. It's not a bad product, but it is deceptive marketing.

For a knife pivot, the two things I really care about are:
  • Oil weight (thinner is better on knives that flick open, but not so thin that it just wicks away)
  • Rust prevention
Nano oil gives you the option of buying different weights, and I respect them for that. Their hype about lubricity is almost 100% baloney. Any oil of a similar weight will give similar results. Identical? I can't say that for sure, as there are too many variables in the actual use of the product, but I'm confident that you could refill most nano-oil applicators with motor oil or ATF of the same weight and nobody would notice.

CRK's fluorinated grease (probably re-packaged Krytox by Chemours/formerly DuPont) is basically the highest-lubricity substance you can find. But it's too thick to use as a grease in many knife pivots. Lower friction coefficients do not always make better lube.

On the list of things that matter for a well-functioning knife pivot, things like alignment of the scales/liners, lockbar pressure and dirt getting trapped in the pivot are infinitely more important than the additive package of the lube.
Great post mate
I agree that a lot of times the latest and greatest lubes are no better than those that have been around for years. Other than a lubricant being food safe or able to stay on moving parts at the temperature you're using them at they're all marketing hype.
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#37

Post by Pokey »

GarageBoy wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:26 pm
Aren't you're supposed to heat militec 1 to polymerize it to the metal or something?
Yes, it was developed for weapons. If you follow their instructions you're supposed to put it on, fire your weapon to get it hot, then put more on and wipe off the excess. I'm not sure a knife can get hot enough to make it bond at the molecular level as they claim, to get it to work as they claim. (Less wear, dry, i.e., weapon stays cleaner.) I'm sure it will work on a knife when the surface is wet with Militec-1, but one wouldn't be getting the special benefits from it if they don't follow the instructions would they? In that case it's the same as Rem Oil, Break-Free, etc. (but probably more expensive than those two)
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#38

Post by JRinFL »

At one time Militec recommended using a heat gun to heat up whatever you are treating. I never did that to my knives.
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Pokey
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Re: Knife lubricating agents

#39

Post by Pokey »

JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:32 am
At one time Militec recommended using a heat gun to heat up whatever you are treating. I never did that to my knives.
Yeah, as I recall they recommended 165°F (74°C). I just checked their website and nothing jumped out at me about heating parts when treating. In any event it's probably not something one would want to do to plastic bits on a knife. ;)
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