What is the purpose of S45VN, cf S30V?

[p_atrick]

In the post on Crucible and Niagara, I asked Sal if S45VN is a steel CQI. Here's his response:

Yup. steel CQI.

sal

BBB did a good job at explaining these improvements. I am interested to see what happens to the production of S30V, S35VN, and S45VN. Will they continue to produce all three? Will they stop production of S30V?

[Bolster]

BBB did a good job at explaining these improvements. I am interested to see what happens to the production of S30V, S35VN, and S45VN. Will they continue to produce all three? Will they stop production of S30V?

Good question! Can we take bets? I'm going to bet that S30V is quietly phased out. Dunno about S35VN, it may be "different enough" to stay?

Just goes to the why the end user is the biggest variable and especially the sharpening.

My favorite line in this thread so far...! Well said!

[Rp5]

In the post on Crucible and Niagara, I asked Sal if S45VN is a steel CQI. Here's his response:

Yup. steel CQI.

sal

BBB did a good job at explaining these improvements. I am interested to see what happens to the production of S30V, S35VN, and S45VN. Will they continue to produce all three? Will they stop production of S30V?

I'm curious if BBB has used Spy27 yet and how that compares to S35VN, S45VN, and S30V.

[p_atrick]

I'm curious if BBB has used Spy27 yet and how that compares to S35VN, S45VN, and S30V.

Take a look at the first post on page 1. BBB updated this with some data. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86859

[Matus]

I think most usually forget, that to "improve" a steel may well mean very different things for the steel maker, the knife/blade maker and the end customer. While the end customer wants things like edge holding, toughness or better stain resistance, the steel maker cares about the improvement in production process and the blade maker about costs, stability of processes, etc. It is great for us users if some new steel offers considerable boost in some of the properties we care about, but if it means that the production of the blade requires considerable changes to the process or the HT requires more steps or is very sensitive to temperature or timing, then the knifemaker may tend to avoid it.

I don't claim to have any insights into the steel production or industrial knife making, but just wanted to (maybe state the obvious) point out that there are important parameters we know little about and also care little about.

[JRinFL]

Larrin has a whole post devoted to the subject.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88361
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/12/21/ ... sers-dont/

[Deadboxhero]

Dr Larrin also did a ton of micrographs, there are very labor intensive to make so they deserve lots of love.


S45vn has slightly finer carbides than S30v at slightly higher volume but less of the harder Vanadium Carbides that contribute more to wear resistance.


S45vn is also slightly finer than S35vn. S45vn is also more wear resistant and with more carbide volume.


XHP is a fan favorite for how it sharpens, we can see S45vn is finer structured and has less volume but XHP just makes softer chromium carbides


Elmax has a cult following, it is touted as being one of the finer structured pm stainless steels and one of the toughest both thanks to its third generation PM technology. However, we can see from the micrograph that this is incorrect. It not the finest, nor the toughest with this much volume.
S45VN is finer and has a better fraction of harder carbides ELMAX makes mostly larger chromium carbides but at higher volume

[Danvp]

In use I really can’t tell the difference between S30V and S45VN. To much variables determining the actual behavior of the steel. Not the least my (poor) sharpening skills. I like both steels... they are well balanced. So is VG10, S35VN, Elmax,...

[Tucson Tom]

I'll live. Don't worry about me. I'll be fine. I found a half gallon of ice cream in the freezer, and I've already stopped crying.

Hmm, what else is hiding in that freezer ?

[Bolster]

Dr Larrin also did a ton of micrographs, there are very labor intensive to make so they deserve lots of love.

Thanks for posting these comparatives. I want to go on record that I DO LOVE Dr. Thomas' micrographs, but I was unaware they were difficult to obtain. I'd be interested to know how one takes a micrograph of steel--I'll search around and see if I can read up on micrography.

Tucson, you stay outta my freezer, man.

[Deadboxhero]

Dr Larrin also did a ton of micrographs, there are very labor intensive to make so they deserve lots of love.

Thanks for posting these comparatives. I want to go on record that I DO LOVE Dr. Thomas' micrographs, but I was unaware they were difficult to obtain. I'd be interested to know how one takes a micrograph of steel--I'll search around and see if I can read up on micrography.

Tucson, you stay outta my freezer, man.

[ugaarguy]

Good question! Can we take bets? I'm going to bet that S30V is quietly phased out. Dunno about S35VN, it may be "different enough" to stay?

I doubt S30V gets phased out. The Native 5 LW debuted in S35VN and was later switched to S30V. I think that S45VN and SPY27 are going to have to get much less expensive to phase out S30V.

[Larrin]

Dr Larrin also did a ton of micrographs, there are very labor intensive to make so they deserve lots of love.

Thanks for posting these comparatives. I want to go on record that I DO LOVE Dr. Thomas' micrographs, but I was unaware they were difficult to obtain. I'd be interested to know how one takes a micrograph of steel--I'll search around and see if I can read up on micrography.

Tucson, you stay outta my freezer, man.

Before I started taking micrographs, 95% of the steels had no microstructure images available at all.

[Rp5]

I love that in order to micrograph metal, you have to watergrind resin. Immediately reminds me of knife sharpening.