Knife vs. expandable baton

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musashipug
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Knife vs. expandable baton

Postby musashipug » Sun Jul 27, 2003 12:00 am

My buddy budoka feels his 26'' ASP is superior in effectiveness for SD situations against the blade. He studies the use of both. Any thoughts?

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Jimd
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Postby Jimd » Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:52 pm

My buddy budoka feels his 26' ASP is superior in effectiveness for SD situations against the blade. He studies the use of both. Any thoughts? >>>

Both weapons have their advantages. The ASP has the advantage of reach, but ONLY if you have time to deploy it. Considering that most knife attacks are ambush-type affairs, chances are that he won't know it's coming, and won't have time to deploy his ASP.

However, in all fairness, you wouldn't have much time to deploy ANY weapon when ambushed with a knife.

Of course, this is not 100%, but I've seen a lot of knife attacks, and it is the rule.


Sniper -- One Shot, One Kill Email: ST8PEN01@aol.com

jim_l_clifton
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Postby jim_l_clifton » Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:23 am

Gunting is better! Faster than a baton ,can work in a closed area where you may not have the room to deploy the baton! Gunting is not seen,it's just pulled & hit with before bg sees it!LORDY!I love using the G!!
jim

Michael Janich
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Postby Michael Janich » Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:51 am

Dear Musashipug:

I carry a 21-inch ASP in addition to my knives and in most cases would probably go for it first. In addition to reach, it is better at blocking and shielding than a knife and functions as a leverage weapon. In the closed position, it works very well at close quarters. With proper training, it also works OPEN at close quarters. Most importantly, it is a better overall "equalizer" against the broad spectrum of possible street attacks. While knife attacks do most likely take the form of ambushes, they are by no means my only concern. Against a bat or a tire iron, I'd prefer the ASP.

The MBC classes I teach for Spyderco constitute about one-third of the curriculum I practice. The stick/impact weapon portion includes some traditional Filipino elements, but I have tuned the bulk of it to support the use of the ASP.

So what's the best answer -- knife or ASP? The answer is "yes."

Stay safe,


mike j

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argyll
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Postby argyll » Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:25 am

Does your friend always carry his ASP? Even if it were legal to carry in my home state of California (it's not), there are many places that I'd be hard pressed to carry one, as opposed to a folder. As is often pointed out, the best weapon is the one that is actually on you.

Best regards,

Argyll

Qui non est hodie cras minus aptus erit -- Ovid (He who is not prepared today will be less so tomorrow)

Edited by - Argyll on 7/28/2003 10:35:05 AM

musashipug
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Postby musashipug » Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:53 pm

No, he doesn't carry the ASP all the time but he has a Gunting around her his neck at all times. We're looking into VA's laws on this weapon and the concealed permit issues.>>>Roger

musashipug
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Postby musashipug » Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:02 pm

Mike, Hi and thanks for the reply. I'm curious as to not using the 26'' version. Is it a carry/concealabily issue?>>>> Roger

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Postby Michael Janich » Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:58 am

Dear Musashipug:

I prefer the 21-inch because it's closer to the stick length I used in Serrada eskrima (roughly 23 inches). From a concealment standpoint, it is also a better choice for me. I'm 5' 11" and carry my ASP in the groin line (the crease of the hip). For me, the 21-inch carries and hides better, but doesn't give up much in performance. The 16-inch models are pretty short and sacrifice quite a bit of striking power.

I hope this helps.

Stay safe,


mike j

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Postby Rex G » Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:47 pm

Thanks for this thread, guys. I recently misplaced my old 16-inch ASP, and am about ready to give up the search and buy a replacement. This gives me food for thought when considering whether to try the 21-inch.

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Postby stanley_white » Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:21 pm

I prefer the 21" Lightweight silver-colored ASP baton over the tactical folder.

1. The ASP is bigger than my tactical folder thus giving me 21" of stand-off from a bad guy vice the 3.5" of my knife blade. Within the "reactionary gap" zone every inch that can buy you time counts!

2. The ASP is more intimidating looking using 21" of reflecting silver baton and thus more likely to assist me in de-escalating the confrontation from happening in the first place.

3. The ASP's visual and audio cues when deploying i.e. the expanding length and sound vice the less audible click of a tactical folder with a 3.5" blade locking itself is more intimidating which is also likely to assist me in de-escalating the confrontation from happening in the first place.

4. I can use it when closed by simply putting my thumb over the end that expands and hitting someone with the butt end of the baton.

5. If I were in court defending my decision to defend myself against an attacker I think the jury would be more sympathetic to me carrying an ASP, "the same thing your Police Officers carry", vice a tactical folder especially one of a possibly menacing looking design that will intimidate a normal tactically untrained person.

-Stanley White

Edited by - stanley_white on 7/30/2003 10:26:25 PM

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Postby Michael Janich » Thu Jul 31, 2003 6:38 am

Dear Stanley:

Good points. I should have mentioned that I also carry an Airweight ASP. It weighs about half as much as a steel one (although I have one of those as well, strategically placed as part of my home-defense plan) and is much more comfortable to carry. ASP offers Airweight versions of all their baton lengths.

Although all your points are very valid, I still am not giving up my knives in exclusive favor of an ASP. Every weapon has a set of circumstances in which it shines brightest. Since we can't dictate the circumstances in which we'll be attacked (if we could, we wouldn't be attacked at all), it's best to have a tool for every occaision.

Stay safe,



mike j

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Postby stanley_white » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:38 am

Mr. Janich,

I am in total aggreement with you. I should have mentioned that I continue to carry my tactical folder in addition to my ASP. However, under the majority of circumstances I feel myself going for my ASP first. You are correct though all of these items are just tools to be applied based on the situation presented.

-Stanley White

Edited by - stanley_white on 7/31/2003 9:20:50 AM

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Jimd
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Postby Jimd » Thu Jul 31, 2003 3:46 pm

Mr. Janich Posts: I still am not giving up my knives in exclusive favor of an ASP. Every weapon has a set of circumstances in which it shines brightest. Since we can't dictate the circumstances in which we'll be attacked (if we could, we wouldn't be attacked at all), it's best to have a tool for every occaision.>>>

I agree with this stategy. That's also why the police carry varied weapons, as well. They follow the Continuum of Force, ie. different levels or degrees.

Most begin on the bottom with Control Techniques and OC Spray.
ThenThen possibly, Tasers or other EBIDs. After that, they move to impact weapons.
Finally, as a last resort, there are firearms.

We have to note that, occasionally, a person is not stopped by any of these means, though it's rare. Even pistol bullets are not magical man-stoppers.

I speak daily with inmates who have been shot on the street, and it's a very educational experience to talk, firsthand, with gunshot surviors. I've even developed an informal "interview" of my own that I give them.


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Qship
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Postby Qship » Thu Jul 31, 2003 4:05 pm

The main problem with an ASP is that it is not legal in some jurisdictions. An ASP is pretty much always a weapon, while a knife may be just a tool that is employed defensively.

This matters because some jurisdictions talk about, "intent to go armed."

If I understand my non-resident Florida CCW permit, an ASP is legal in that state only with a CCW. California seems to take a dim view of any baton, but is quite reasonable about folders.

Mr. Janich would probably use both, do sword and dagger.

Qship

lunumbra
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Postby lunumbra » Fri Aug 01, 2003 8:07 pm

Agh! I wish I could carry my baton!

Not legal here in NYC . . . . .bummer. . . .

lunumbra

earthworm
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Postby earthworm » Tue Aug 05, 2003 3:00 am

What's the weight difference between the Airweight & 'regular' 16" ASP? First I've heard of this.
Personally against a blade I prefer about 3-4' of seasoned hickory:the ole Alabama Lie Detector*G*.A curve-handle cane is about the same,always in hand,legal everywhere &,with proper tecnic,quite effective.
musashipug:Your bud has the right idea-study both. Ya never know.....*wink*

mr. v
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Postby mr. v » Tue Aug 05, 2003 10:50 am

Earthworm--

The Airweights reportedly offer a "45% weight reduction"--while offering "98% of the striking potential"--compared to the steel version. That'd mean the 16-inch Airweight would weigh around 7-8 ounces.
For the sake of comparison, that's in the same ballpark as the Spyderco Chinook.

Vince



Edited by - mr. v on 8/5/2003 10:52:37 AM

musashipug
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Postby musashipug » Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:10 pm

We called a local concealed carry course business. We were told it was only a concealed ''gun'' course. Wouldn't you think a ''gun'' permit would cover a Baton ???

musashipug
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Postby musashipug » Sun Aug 17, 2003 7:33 am

Just received the 21 in. nickel plated Asp. Wow! After starting out with a light weight 26 in. this piece has a focused heft that's comfortable to carry ITWB and a ton of fun to flick and swing. The silver look "portends" more than black.

musashipug
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Postby musashipug » Sun Aug 17, 2003 7:34 am

Edited by - musashipug on 8/18/2003 5:57:26 PM


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