MAP pricing policy favors amazon. Bad for vendors (that are not Amazon) and consumers.

[The Mastiff]

I'm very loyal to New Graham. When the Police 3 launched I drove 4 hours to their shop to buy one, and also to handle every Spyderco that interested me. I apologized upfront and said "Sorry, I have a million different knives I'm going to want to check out, but I promise I'll buy a couple." Not only did they not mind, they kept suggesting models for me to handle based on what appealed to me.

I've never been there but I have heard from others that say the same. I just know they are nice on the phone and are completely reliable in my experiences. I'd guess they have more than just us as loyal customers because of their way of doing business. I've heard the owner is the pharmacist and he is as big a knife knut as the rest of us.

[Doc Dan]

I wonder how many of the owners of places like KW, KC, CS, NG, BHQ, and etc. are members of this forum?

[Bill1170]

I never buy Spyderco knives from Amazon, for all the reasons listed above. I like to support independent knife retailers. Knifeworks has earned my loyalty and I go there first, but many others are also good, and they know their product, unlike Amazon.

[kennethsime]

When I worked in a brick & mortar cutlery store in college, we sold everything for about 15% off MSRP. MSRP is usually double wholesale, so we made a small, but meaningful profit of 35% of MSRP on most items (if you don't factor in all the fixed costs, including my labor).

Unfortunately, you could usually buy Spydercos on Amazon for less than our wholesale cost. It was impossible to compete, so we didn't really try. We had a small selection of Spydercos, but they were simply seen as "overpriced" by anyone who had done even a little bit of shopping around. That was a shame, because I loved Spydercos, and would always try to sell them anyway.

We sold a lot more Benchmade than Spyderco, because BM had a strictly-enforced MAP. You couldn't buy new Benchmade knives for less than we were selling them, and if you bought online you'd have to pay shipping (and you didn't get to handle the knives and ask me questions about them). As you can imagine, we made a big chunk of money on Benchmades, and we recommended them to customers a lot because they took care of us.

I'm happy that Spyderco is enforcing a MAP. It helps the little guys. I think that getting rid of the MAP would create a race to the bottom, which only Amazon can win.

[Bill1170]

knifeworks and newgraham are the first two shops I check.

These are my first stops also. I have probably 10 years and I don't know how many purchased from these two and I have had nothing but good experiences with them. GP knives is another one I look to and have for a long time.

I'm very loyal to New Graham. When the Police 3 launched I drove 4 hours to their shop to buy one, and also to handle every Spyderco that interested me. I apologized upfront and said "Sorry, I have a million different knives I'm going to want to check out, but I promise I'll buy a couple." Not only did they not mind, they kept suggesting models for me to handle based on what appealed to me.

That is awesome. Dealers who respect and care for their customers earn repeat business. That’s the world I want to inhabit, so I put my money where my mouth is.

[The Deacon]

Here's another point. Am I the only one who remembers that in the "good old days" before Amazon sold knives and long before MAP a lot of the real low-ballers among online knife dealers went down in flames, often leaving their last week or two's worth of customers without either a knife, or their money? Or when one less-than-ethical Spyderco distributor set up a bunch of "dealers" that merely took orders at below wholesale prices for drop shipment from said distributor? That may have been great for the consumer, but harmed legitimate dealers.

[The Mastiff]

That is awesome. Dealers who respect and care for their customers earn repeat business. That’s the world I want to inhabit, so I put my money where my mouth is.

Me also. I tend to being loyal to businesses that treat me well. I will gladly pay a few more dollars for that kind of service and consider it money well spent.

[jdw]

That is awesome. Dealers who respect and care for their customers earn repeat business. That’s the world I want to inhabit, so I put my money where my mouth is.

Me also. I tend to being loyal to businesses that treat me well. I will gladly pay a few more dollars for that kind of service and consider it money well spent.

Same here. It is also part of what drives my loyalty to Spyderco as a company. There are a lot of companies that sell knives but ethical business practices, quality customer service, and the legitimate concern of delivering a quality product to your customers is worth an increase in price and my continued loyalty.

EDIT: It's the same reason why I will buy from Country Knives. You have to pay but they are a small shop run by great folks.

[I_like_knives]

Unlike the OP, many of us have morals. I will gladly spend a few extra bucks to support a business that is real part of our community. And if there were still a decent brick & mortar anywhere near here, I'd spend a few more yet bucks to keep it local.

There used to be really cool knife dealer in a mall on the other side of the metro. Had everything from cheap Chinese replica swords to Microtech's Halo5. They only carried a handful of Spyderco models, but I am sure they could have gotten more if I asked. I did buy a Benchmade and a ZT from them before they went under a couple of years ago. First, they moved into a little kiosk, selling just the just cheap gas station stuff, and then ultimately disappeared entirely not long after that.

Before too long, Amazon and Walmart will be all there is..... and we did it to ourselves.

[araneae]

I don't like MAP, I understand the reasoning, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I buy Spyderco knives from online knife shops, with the exception of a couple kitchen knives. I used to be more loyal, I bought from one shop primarily, they had good service, free shipping and often did discount codes. Discounts aren't a thing thanks to MAP. Now I can buy from any one of a dozen trusted shops that I know will sell the same knife at the same price with decent service if needed.

I'm saving nothing by going with my old standby and they're not the fastest to get new models or the quickest shipper due to their location. So by default they have moved down the list. I do feel bad sometimes, if MAP wasn't a thing, I'd be supporting that same primary vendor instead of spreading my dollars around to whoever has the knife in stock when I'm shopping. I've learned that with the sprints and exclusive models, I cannot wait. They're gone if you do.

I get that Amazon is a problem for the little guys, but I'd bet that even with MAP, Amazon is still the biggest seller of Spyderco. Recently Amazon even has a link on the product page inviting you to visit "the Spyderco store" there which features a very official Spyderco looking page with lots of what look like Spyderco produced graphics. Not sure, but it feels like a Spyderco sponsored Amazon store. I don't see that type of thing at the little shops websites. Seems curious to me.

It would be really nice to see a few factory authorized sales permitted by Spyderco. Most of the other companies do it once or twice a year. Drop MAP for a weekend and cut us a break. It would almost certainly convince me I "needed" another knife.

[nerdlock]

Unlike the OP, many of us have morals. I will gladly spend a few extra bucks to support a business that is real part of our community. And if there were still a decent brick & mortar anywhere near here, I'd spend a few more yet bucks to keep it local.

I don't get it, just because he does not support MAP and has some valid points, does it mean that he has no morals? When did in his statements did he state something that would be considered 'immoral'?

If you read the original post, he was stating an example of how Amazon's system can be abused. Not only by himself, but by everyman as represented by 'mr. Schmo'.

Majority of us overseas do not have any access at all to any sort of brick and mortar, mom and pop knife shop. And furthermore, international trade dictates that tariffs and customs taxes must be levied to imports before profit margins, leading to sky high local prices for these items. Our only option is to go online.

Some of those stores that folks here have mentioned do not ship overseas; either due to covid or to preserve themselves from headache, or if they do, shipping costs + customs taxes often add up and sometimes even reach half the cost of the knife itself.

I once paid more than $100 shipping for a Spyderco knife.

So what would be our option? Of course, as customers you go to the option with the most value for money. Amazon does offer that, international delivery, returns, and all.

Many of us would love to support businesses that aren't run by big corporations. But money doesn't grow on trees as they say. Compound that with the price increases and someday we'll get to the point that buying Spyderco will only be reserved to those with high extra disposable incomes. I wish we wouldn't reach that tipping point.

I fully understand why MAP is being implemented, but like the OP says, I think it only serves to further strengthen the grip of Amazon and other big businesses over the smaller ones, and not all customers are 'moral' enough to choose to pay extra to support small businesses, instead of being wise spenders of their hard earned money and choose the best deals for their buck.

[Mushroom]

It seems like in three pages, this thread has redefined MAP to mean Moral Ambiguity Pricing... :rolleyes: Are we really trying to shame peoples morals for wanting to pay the lowest price possible? :confused:

The OP wasn't talking about the users on this forum but the the exact opposite. The average consumer who doesn't have 10 different knife specific retailers bookmarked. When they shop online, they often turn to Amazon understanding the services they offer and are usually expecting to find a lower price.

[Cricket Bite]

I will avoid Amazon if at all possible. With Amazon there is always risk in getting counterfeit or old/used stock. With local shops (my local favorite is (Cutlery Shoppe also online) you get a real person and supporting a local business that has a personal relation with Spyderco. You know what you are getting. You will pay a little more sometimes but how much is your time and hassle of dealing with Amazon worth if things don’t work out?

[SG89]

Bladehq and other online spyderco dealers have an Amazon seller account as well... So if you can't beat them join them? Also if MAP is for dealers to have a level playing field why does spyderco seem to have an official spyderco store on Amazon that sells them at MAP (correct me if I'm wrong)

[I_like_knives]

not all customers are 'moral' enough to choose to pay extra to support small businesses, instead of being wise spenders of their hard earned money and choose the best deals for their buck.

If we were wise spenders we wouldn't be buying dozens of expensive unnecessary knives. Outside of a few models, most of what Spyderco sells are arguably luxury items. None of us need a high end pocket knife. Heck, many dont even use them.

[TomAiello]

It's interesting that in many ways eBay is a safer place to buy knives than Amazon. On eBay, you can pick the seller you want, and then deal directly with them. I've bought lots of knives from National Knives via eBay, just as one data point.

[nerdlock]

not all customers are 'moral' enough to choose to pay extra to support small businesses, instead of being wise spenders of their hard earned money and choose the best deals for their buck.

If we were wise spenders we wouldn't be buying dozens of expensive unnecessary knives. Outside of a few models, most of what Spyderco sells are arguably luxury items. None of us need a high end pocket knife. Heck, many dont even use them.

I still don't think you get my point. I'm talking about the average knife user with a limited budget, who wants a Spyderco because of its reputation, and has no access to a brick and mortar store so he/she has to go online. You cannot put a badge on their 'morality' if they choose to buy from the least expensive option with better shipping and returns policy, because they are looking for the most value for the amount that they will be spending. Who loses customers in this scenario - certainly the smaller dealers.

I fully understand the sentiments of the pro-MAP folks here and I admire the desire to support the dealers. I agree with that wholeheartedly and I also have a few select dealers that I love too. But we must remember that we here in the forums are the minority - the majority of the customers out there are the everyday folk who incidentally needs a knife for their profession or personal use. These are the people who will not care where they will get their knife, as long as they can get it while spending the least expense.

If MAP was somehow taken out of the picture or lowered the minimum, and these dealers can set their own competitive pricing, then maybe, that average knife user will spend their hard-earned cash to the dealer that offers the most value for their product and services rendered.

[Woodpuppy]

I’ve used Amazon an awful lot in the past. I’m trying to wean our family off it, for a few specific reasons. Much like Google, Amazon is no longer the underdog - they’re the evil behemoth.

You need to pay close attention to pricing; that “free” Prime shipping is often not free at all. And with online taxation, it seems that at least 50% of the time they’re not the best deal. They make a fine shopping resource and I’ve discovered new online vendors from whom I can buy directly.

I much prefer to buy local if I can. I’d rather that money stay in my community. If you don’t support your local businesses, as said above soon all you’ll have is the online giants.

As to knives, there are several fantastic smaller shops online, none local to me. I like the underdogs. And I’m a patient sort when it comes to buying things. It amuses me in a way to hear people unhappy with a week delivery time. Try ordering something bespoke and waiting a year for it

Rampant instant gratification consumerism may drive the economy, but it’s a foolish personal creed.

[ladybug93]

the only brick and mortar i ever see a spyderco in is walmart and that's only the tenacious. if it weren't for online dealers, i'd be edc'ing a $20 kershaw.

[sal]

Spyderco does not support an "Amazon store".

sal