MAP pricing policy favors amazon. Bad for vendors (that are not Amazon) and consumers.

[Doc Dan]

I like Amazon and I am glad we have them. It makes a lot of dealers toe the mark in order to compete and we all win. I do not buy Spydercos from Amazon simply because their return policy has allowed some people to order a knife, then return a damaged knife or clone in the original box and basically get a free knife. Then, the next poor guy who buys that knife, gets the fake/clone or damaged knife. However, I buy a lot of other stuff on Amazon. Amazon is not bad, just some of the customers need a head slap.

[sal]

Hey ThermalAdv,

Thanx for the kind words, but I'm also a knife afi and we started our business with very little. (Gail and I were Homeless and living in a converted bread delivery truck. We build product in campgrounds and sold them in county fairs. We have our roots.) We're more like you than you might think.

We went MAP due to dealer requests, and we gained many dealers as a result of that move. We also received many thank you's for doing so.

But you've got to keep in mind that these very large companies really have business down. They cover every angle, they make it so easy. That's how they got so big. I was in a Costco today and I still marvel and their business strategy. Different from Walmart or Amazon or Home Depot, but they all offer price, convenience and service that's hard to compete against for the person looking for the "best deal".

As mentioned by many, the antithesis is supporting the smaller guy.

sal

[cycleguy]

Maybe we should be asking our favorite retailers for more sales. It could help to direct traffic to their website. There was a retailer that did a 30% off MAP sale recently and their entire inventory was nearly wiped clean in a few days.

Benchmade offers sales multiple times times. Recently bought a 20cv G10 Bugout for $50 off its retail price on BHQ as have several others here. I usually don't buy BMs but I am a sucker for sweet deals and wouldn't hesitate to jump on one if the price is right. I don't see why this cannot be possible with Spyderco retailers.

BHQ had a sweet sale on Amazon on Spydercos not too long ago. It didn't last very long but the deals were amazing!!!!

CG

[nerdlock]

Maybe we should be asking our favorite retailers for more sales. It could help to direct traffic to their website. There was a retailer that did a 30% off MAP sale recently and their entire inventory was nearly wiped clean in a few days.

Benchmade offers sales multiple times times. Recently bought a 20cv G10 Bugout for $50 off its retail price on BHQ as have several others here. I usually don't buy BMs but I am a sucker for sweet deals and wouldn't hesitate to jump on one if the price is right. I don't see why this cannot be possible with Spyderco retailers.

BHQ had a sweet sale on Amazon on Spydercos not too long ago. It didn't last very long but the deals were amazing!!!!

CG

Wasn't that recent one cancelled by BHQ? I saw lots of orders cancelled after that. I think it happened yesterday or two days ago, if that's what you're referring to...

[The Deacon]

I see three problems with the OP's logic.

First, and most obvious, would be that no matter what the price structure a vendor as large as Amazon will always have a advantage. They can buy more, which means they can buy cheaper, and without MAP they do what Amazon use to do and undercut virtually all smaller retailers. As Sal noted, the simple truth is that's the main reason Spyderco instituted MAP.

Second is that Amazon's 'no questions asked" return policy is a two edged sword which has turned off as many potential buyers as it has turned on. It sounds great, but for many it creates an unacceptable risk of getting someone else's reject. Worse yet, their lackluster inspection of returned goods creates the potential for you receiving a counterfeit that someone returned in place of a genuine Spyderco.

Finally, there's the problem of counterfeits created by two of Amazon's policies, namely that of buying from the cheapest source and that of commingling their own stock and that of third party vendors in their "fulfillment by Amazon" program. Many savvy knife buyers will not buy from the for that reason.

Beyond that, most Spyderco models retail for more than $100 and most of the well known knife dealers offer free shipping on orders over that, so Amazon's advantage in that area is limited.

For the record, I have purchased somewhere over 400 new Spydercos. Somewhere over 100 of those came from eBay sellers and well over 100 from New Graham Knives. The rest came mostly from other online vendors, a couple dozen directly from SFO, three from B&M's, and one each from Walmart and Amazon.

[Nate]

I generally don’t buy knives on Amazon and certainly have no interest in gaming their return policy. Have actually never received a Spydie that I wanted to return or send in under warranty.

Can’t say I have a clear favorite online vendor, tend to spread it around the usual suspects: Blade HQ, Cutlery Shoppe, Knifeworks, etc...

[Notsurewhy]

I like Amazon and I am glad we have them. It makes a lot of dealers toe the mark in order to compete and we all win. I do not buy Spydercos from Amazon simply because their return policy has allowed some people to order a knife, then return a damaged knife or clone in the original box and basically get a free knife. Then, the next poor guy who buys that knife, gets the fake/clone or damaged knife. However, I buy a lot of other stuff on Amazon. Amazon is not bad, just some of the customers need a head slap.

Pretty much this. Amazon has its uses, but I don't trust what I get from them to be genuine. Particularly if it's a commonly counterfeited item. I'd never buy a knife from them. I'd buy local if there were any stores around, instead I have to settle for reputable online dealers or the SFO.

[bearfacedkiller]

I use Amazon a little but I have only bought a couple knives through them and they were always third party sellers who I knew and trusted.

I also shop at a local (not a chain) grocery store which is owned by a neighbor. I try to put some thought into who gets my money and the bigger the business the less likely I am to do business with them. I like to shop local and I like to support the little guy.

I have long since outgrown my desire to stretch every dollar as far as possible. I find it more rewarding to just reduce my wants and to spend conscientiously. It is only stuff and I honestly already have most of the stuff I need.

It is the average consumers desire to stretch every dollar as far as possible in order to maintain a high level of consumption that has created these behemoths like Amazon and Walmart. Everybody seems to want to pile the blame on them when it is the consumers who drive the machine. We fault them for giving us exactly what we ask for. Makes little sense to me.

[vivi]

It is the average consumers desire to stretch every dollar as far as possible in order to maintain a high level of consumption that has created these behemoths like Amazon and Walmart. Everybody seems to want to pile the blame on them when it is the consumers who drive the machine. We fault them for giving us exactly what we ask for. Makes little sense to me.

100%

[steelcity16]

Between the lockdowns and having little free time I placed 464 orders on Amazon in 2020, up from 294 in 2019. I ordered my first Spyderco from Amazon in 2017 when I was staying in a vacation house at the beach and wanted a rust proof knife delivered the next day. Since then, I have only ordered 1 other Spyderco from Amazon, and that was because it was on sale.

I spend most of my Spyderco dollars at places like St. Nicks, DLT, KnivesShipFree, and Cutlery Shoppe where the owners/employees are friendly and they respond to my crazy emails asking them about doing this exclusive or that exclusive. I like supporting them since they provide the community with great exclusives that would never happen if they went out of business or didn't have the free cash flow to plunk down on 1,200 knives. DLT and KSF also have great rewards systems. I just picked up a K390 Endura from KSF and a K390 Endela from DLT yesterday for next to nothing because I cashed in a ton of reward points at each dealer. So if you factor in rewards, these dealers can be cheaper than Amazon. Plus, there are still a few dealers out there who don't charge sales tax in certain states if you check around.

[bearfacedkiller]

^
I also like to support dealers who commission exclusives, especially ones I like. Knifeworks did some cool Military exclusives as well as the 204P Para2 and for that reason I have bought many knives from them.

[vivi]

knifeworks and newgraham are the first two shops I check.

[desmodue]

I use Amazon to buy quite a few items, it's fast. easy, free shipping with Prime and on the few items I wanted to return zero hassles.

I will not buy $100 and up knives from Amazon. Period.

Why, you ask? Because of the number of losers out there that buy a knock-off PM2, Griptillian, Hinderer, etc. and then buy the real version from Amazon. Put the knockoff in the factory box and then return it to Amazon for a refund.

There isn't a good retailer offering any selection of better quality knives anywhere near me, so I use the well known reputable on-line knife venders.

[sal]

Hi Desmodue,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[RustyIron]

As a consumer, price is definitely a consideration. For something in the price range of a knife, a couple bucks might not make a difference, ten might, twenty will. I'm not the Sisters Of Mercy, and I don't just give away my money.

I think Spyderco's MAP tends to favor the bigger sellers--at least in my case it does. If I'm looking for something specific, I'll go to the bigger sites who are more likely to have that item, and there's no need to shop around if everyone has the same price. If I do a google search, the bigger retailers will have a higher listing. If I find a big store and a little store with the item at the same price, I'll probably go with the bigger because I would expect them to have a more streamlined shipping operation with the ability to get my package out right away.

The bottom line is that the bigger retailers have an advantage. I don't know of a way to level the playing field, and I'm not convinced it's a noble goal to do so. But it's not my business to decide how a manufacturer or retailer arrives at their pricing.

[RustyIron]

double post

[Danke]

So I think some folks are missing a few fundamentals here since they're looking at this from the eyes of a consumer vs. the eyes of a retailer. Big places like Blade HQ or DLT do have an large advantage over small shops since they can take a flyer on ordering a lot of new knives that may not be popular and also by the way they can get their own sprint runs made. That brings regular customers and net shoppers to their door because they have the knives and often they will also have a flexible shipping policy. When you hit X dollars you don't pay freight.

I'm in Canada. We only have a few decent retail locations up here for Spyderco and the nearest one to me is 5 hours away. With the reduced travel this year I have to get everything online. I would guess compared to the bigger US stores they're a small customer. They've never had their own exclusive and while they get just about everything that comes from Spyderco a lot of the time they'll have severely reduced quantities and their stock on new stuff will weeks or even months behind the big US stores. Despite all of that I'm still happy shopping there. When I compare their pricing with the USA they're only a few dollars more and they've already got the stuff through customs. Also they've started up offering free freight when the order hits a sufficient value.

I'm also an Amazon Prime member since i live 5 hours away from the big city and at times I just can't get what I need when I shop local. They saved my butt on a lot of Christmas presents this year. Despite this I've never felt the urge to buy knives on there. I don't need to worry about returns; I've never had to go into a store and have them lay out 10 PM2s so I can pick the "best" one. Also if there is an issue down the road I know Golden will make it right.

I think the biggest thing MAP does is filter out the online bottom feeders who are always looking for the lowest price. Sure you can use that tool to find a shop selling a PM2 for $129 instead of $155 but there's no guarantee that in a years time that spot will still have the popular knives and if the big guys get their way all the small guys get crushed and in ten years time the only place to shop is them and the price is now $225 with nowhere else to go.

[ABX2011]

I like to support my favorite dealers. I wouldn't buy a knife from Amazon.

[The Mastiff]

knifeworks and newgraham are the first two shops I check.

These are my first stops also. I have probably 10 years and I don't know how many purchased from these two and I have had nothing but good experiences with them. GP knives is another one I look to and have for a long time.

[vivi]

knifeworks and newgraham are the first two shops I check.

These are my first stops also. I have probably 10 years and I don't know how many purchased from these two and I have had nothing but good experiences with them. GP knives is another one I look to and have for a long time.

I'm very loyal to New Graham. When the Police 3 launched I drove 4 hours to their shop to buy one, and also to handle every Spyderco that interested me. I apologized upfront and said "Sorry, I have a million different knives I'm going to want to check out, but I promise I'll buy a couple." Not only did they not mind, they kept suggesting models for me to handle based on what appealed to me.