Machete by Spyderco?

[Fireman]

Practical meets tactical
“Hey wife, I bought you a new kitchen knife”
“Husband, what are you chopping with my kitchen knife!?”

[jdw]

I have a BK9 that I use as a short machete. It works great. I don't know why Spyderco would even think about this.

[Christian Noble]

The machete I have used since they first came out is a ESEE lite machete. The blades are made by Imacasa in El Salvador. They are in 1075 and they are heat treated very well. I have to reshape the handle since it was so blocky but after reprofiling the handle and edge It became the one tool I never go into the woods or swamps without.

I am getting set up myself to start making knives but the one thing I want to make the most are custom machetes from higher end steels. The prototypes will be made from 1075 until I get my design perfect then I will try a few in CPM-3v, Z-Tuff or CPM-1v. I am very excited about this so it will be interesting.

If Spyderco did make a machete a latin style machete just makes sense to me because it's generally the most practical and versatile machete style in many different environments. I have used my ESEE lite machete on bamboo, seasoned hickory and oak, gum, pecan, maple and fatwood/lighter knot. A good or better design with proper heat treat and geometry would excel in most types of bush and even in places that aren't so bushy.

My goal is to make a machete with higher end materials and processes that will be useful from the arctic circle to the arid regions of Australia. Would it be the perfect tool for every environment? Of course not but it would be useful in at least a few applications in certain environments while being very useful in most. I hope my passion for machetes comes through in my text and if not my passion will shine through in the machetes I will make.

In the end I hope Spyderco does make a machete in any style because I would buy it to try it out. Just a word of warning I am very critical of machetes but I try my best to make it constructive. I vote yes for Spyderco to make a machete. The machete is my favorite sharp tool and Spyderco's make my favorite folders. This would be a dream combo for me regardless of the style Spyderco would make.

I toured the Imacasa factory 7 or so years ago and watched them make machetes, a very manual process, but they cranked them out very quickly -- along with shovels and other tools primarily for use in South America. Imacasa is the parent of Condor Knife & Tool, all made in the same factory. Back then, Condor was still growing and very "manual" in their manufacturing of knives too; I know they've upgraded significantly since then.

FWIW, Collins made great machetes (and decent axes) of which I still have and used to use a Collins back when I worked as a forester in the deep south. And having used several brands myself, as well as my rangers, the Collins held up the best, at least back then. I would be interested in looking at anything Spyderco does, but considering the tool that machete is and the current marketplace, I suspect it would be tough to make one economically viable to compete for those who use them in their livelihood.

Last but not least, I am a total amateur on steels, but isn't something like 1075 a great choice for a traditional machete. Pliable to take abuse, low cost, easy to sharpen, etc. Why would you want a high-end steel on a machete? (sincere question, not rhetorical)

[Fireman]

@Christian Noble
Why spend $200+ on a machete when you can spend 20?
Me personally, because (If made from a great steel like LC200N and great ergos and is a knife that I could bet my life on) I could use it for more than just a machete. My ideal 14” butchers style hybrid would get lots of use in my kitchen and also weekend warrioring playing survivor man in the wild practicing my primitive skills. That is worth 10x the price for me than a nominal machete.
Butchers Machete aka Buchete.
I will have to get a custom prototype done after I get the other secret squirrel custom that I am getting made now.

[Christian Noble]

Thanks for the reply Fireman
And I don't mind spending the coin to get the right tool, Lord knows I have, I was just trying to understand best use case. In my mind, it was why take a Ferrari down a Jeep trail and get stuck (chipped blade, etc.) when you could just take the Jeep and make it through no problem.

[Fireman]

We Carbide Connoisseurs know how to use the right blade and edge profile to maximize performance of the steel we are using. LC200N is tough, pretty easy to edge tune and one hellova rust resistor for kitchen to humid jungle use. With the right handle materials and construction it would be impervious and prize worthy. It might even be pretty good for large sport fishing for breaking down the fish. I would most likely use it more on turf than surf.

[Cl1ff]

The 10 series (1075,80,95), while fine, are simple and seem pretty easily outclassed by a range of steels that aren’t really that expensive.

I’d love to see steels great at thinner geometries and somewhat higher hardness in a large slicing machete style knife for those wanting a more refined tool. The whole point of them is to be more stable than other steels (10 series) could be at thinner grinds.

There may be some trade offs, but also notable areas of performance where you’d see better results. Examples include, edge retention which could be useful when slicing lots of thin or soft vegetation, chopping performance thanks to thinner and slicier grinds, and ability to remain intact at those thinner angles because of the steel choice whereas a 1075 machete would “fail” when equally thin.

I’m not talking crazy high hardnesses or super thin edges for a folding knife, instead I mean those things relative to other production machetes or slicers.

Makers akin to Deadboxhero and Sal would know better than me what steels would fit the bill for my above description.

I originally mentioned BD1N becasue I know it’s able to hold thin geometries at the size of Spyderco’s new Murray Carter collection of kitchen knives. That said, I may be inclined to think other suggestions like Spy27 or LC200N potentially work better?
I’m trying to stay relatively stainless as well.
Again, imagine a construction similar to the BD1N Zcuts and MSRP at, or below, $200?
Just and idea!

Maybe this query is pointless and there’s no such thing. I’m trying to be as astute as possible when brainstorming, but I also don’t want to write so much. :o

The dream is to have the machete that cuts in the kitchen too, but perhaps the most realistic thing to ponder is a butcher knife in the Spyderco Culinary line up. :)

[Fireman]

This with a handle to add reach and sharpen the other side would give you an interesting jungle whacker. A wood saw instead of a SE on this configuration while adding a sharpened other side could hack through brush on one side saw logs on the other. This may be as close as you will get to a Spyderco machete

[Mike Slayer]

I toured the Imacasa factory 7 or so years ago and watched them make machetes, a very manual process, but they cranked them out very quickly -- along with shovels and other tools primarily for use in South America. Imacasa is the parent of Condor Knife & Tool, all made in the same factory. Back then, Condor was still growing and very "manual" in their manufacturing of knives too; I know they've upgraded significantly since then.

FWIW, Collins made great machetes (and decent axes) of which I still have and used to use a Collins back when I worked as a forester in the deep south. And having used several brands myself, as well as my rangers, the Collins held up the best, at least back then. I would be interested in looking at anything Spyderco does, but considering the tool that machete is and the current marketplace, I suspect it would be tough to make one economically viable to compete for those who use them in their livelihood.

Last but not least, I am a total amateur on steels, but isn't something like 1075 a great choice for a traditional machete. Pliable to take abuse, low cost, easy to sharpen, etc. Why would you want a high-end steel on a machete? (sincere question, not rhetorical)

1075 is a great choice for a machete. It is my favorite steel for a production machete. One reason I love the Imacasa machetes so much is because they use 1075 and it takes and hold a decent edge for a machete. Tramontina machetes use 1070 which isn't bad by any means but it's softer than I prefer on my machetes. Lets take Z-tuff which is most likely what I will use in my custom machetes. First off let me say I am no expert on steels myself so if I have something wrong please let me know. Z-tuff toughness is very high. Take Z-tuff at 61.5rc and 5160 at 59.5rc and Z-tuff is a little tougher according to Larrins chart. I will say that was impressive to me. I am not sure what the edge holding will be but if I had to take a guess I would guess it's better than 1075. I do have a machete in CPM-1v and the edge holding is similar to A2. For myself having crazy high toughness and good edge holding in a machete is a win win for me. Only down side is of course the price. Granted if I am buying the materials and making it myself it doesn't seem that bad so why not make myself one or ten machetes in some of these steels. Everybody else that had to buy them from a custom maker it might be too much money for most which is understandable. For myself the question is why not but for others the question is why. If I weren't making it myself and seen a custom maker make a machete I liked from Z-tuff or CPM-1v my answer to why would be simply for the increased toughness and edge retention not to mention having a nicer machete made from nicer materials is something I have always wanted. You just have to ask yourself is it worth it to or not.

[Sumdumguy]

This with a handle to add reach and sharpen the other side would give you an interesting jungle whacker. A wood saw instead of a SE on this configuration while adding a sharpened other side could hack through brush on one side saw logs on the other. This may be as close as you will get to a Spyderco machete

Like a modified sling blade, hmm...

I could get behind that.

[Fireman]

How many machetes on the market are impervious to the elements? (lc200n)
How many can be used in the kitchen wonderfully without issue?
How many could you bet your life on in a survival situation?
How many have all three?

[zhyla]

I haven’t really studied edge stability of the higher end whiz bang steels, but we need to be careful not to conflate the steel properties that make a good slicing knife blade with what makes a good thin chopper. Most machetes* are made with medium carbon steel (1070) and not very hard. The low hardness is deliberate, it means it will take a beating and can be sharpened with a rock.

I don’t know what you guys do with machetes but mine get beat up a little. There’s always a rock or some concrete near something I need to whack. Edge retention is irrelevant since I need to sharpen out the small dings once in a while anyways.

As far as it being made out of LC200N, why? I’ve got lots of plain carbon steel machetes. They work great. Unless you need to take it in seawater (seaweed trimming?) I don’t think people really struggle with machete corrosion. A lot of them are painted which I’m sure is advantageous in tropical areas.

* I’m referring to actual machetes, of which Latin machetes are prototypical. Not khukri, not thick army choppers, etc. Not that those aren’t useful, they’re just not machetes.

[Fireman]

Why LC200N?
It is used in high end kitchen knives for good reason. My imaginary kitchen machete would most likely spend most of its time in the kitchen and then could take on all else with flying colors. My idea was to offer something that is not already on the market.

[zhyla]

Why LC200N?
It is used in high end kitchen knives for good reason. My imaginary kitchen machete would most likely spend most of its time in the kitchen and then could take on all else with flying colors. My idea was to offer something that is not already on the market.

Why would you ever take a refined sharp edge suitable for slicing food outside to whack it against stuff? Why not just have a $10 machete and a nice kitchen knife?

And why LC200N? That’s not a very competitive steel for kitchen knives. You don’t need absolute corrosion resistance in the kitchen.

[Cl1ff]

I keep quoting instead of editing :mad:
Might as well make use of this and ask the question, “How much would a machete or butcher sized Z-cut cost?”
I know that’s not exactly what we’re talking about, but it may provide some perspective for the price of machete in a steel like BD1N as I’ve proposed earlier.

[RamZar]

Southern Grind, down in Georgia, makes a very intriguing quality Machete called Grandaddy with G-10 handle and kydex sheath for $230. The 11” 8670M High Carbon Steel blade is Full tang, differentially heat-treated blade (Hardness: RC 62, taper to RC 50 at the tip of the blade) which can bend 90° without fracturing (reclaimed carbon metal sawmill blades).

[Mike Slayer]

I haven’t really studied edge stability of the higher end whiz bang steels, but we need to be careful not to conflate the steel properties that make a good slicing knife blade with what makes a good thin chopper. Most machetes* are made with medium carbon steel (1070) and not very hard. The low hardness is deliberate, it means it will take a beating and can be sharpened with a rock.

I don’t know what you guys do with machetes but mine get beat up a little. There’s always a rock or some concrete near something I need to whack. Edge retention is irrelevant since I need to sharpen out the small dings once in a while anyways.

As far as it being made out of LC200N, why? I’ve got lots of plain carbon steel machetes. They work great. Unless you need to take it in seawater (seaweed trimming?) I don’t think people really struggle with machete corrosion. A lot of them are painted which I’m sure is advantageous in tropical areas.

* I’m referring to actual machetes, of which Latin machetes are prototypical. Not khukri, not thick army choppers, etc. Not that those aren’t useful, they’re just not machetes.

1070 is a high carbon steel not medium. For myself I prefer 1075 over 1070. It tends to take and hold an edge better than 1070 while still being quick and easy touch up. If nicks and dings happen in my machetes I don't worry about them besides trying to push the material back in place best I can then continue sharpening as normal. I wouldn't say edge retention is irrelevant because you damage and have to fix your edges. Using the same logic somebody could say the same when it comes to other blades as well.

When it comes to a stainless machete I could see a use for one especially in my environment. I live in Eastern NC so we have swamps, marshes and other wetlands that can be brackish at times. Coatings could help in a lot of cases but most coatings machetes come with wear off fairly quickly when using the machete a lot. I would like to make a machete in LC200N to test but first I want to try AEB-L since it is cheaper.

People seems to ask why make a machete from higher end steels. The same could be asked of certain Spyderco knives. Why make certain models with LC200N, K390 and Maxamet blades over H1, VG-10 and S30V? We don't really need the extra edge retention but we want it. In the same way with machetes it's not that a machete needs to be made from higher end steel. I just want machetes that are made from higher end steels as I think a few others up here might as well.

[Cl1ff]

When it comes to a stainless machete I could see a use for one especially in my environment. I live in Eastern NC so we have swamps, marshes and other wetlands that can be brackish at times. Coatings could help in a lot of cases but most coatings machetes come with wear off fairly quickly when using the machete a lot.

People seems to ask why make a machete from higher end steels. In the same way with machetes it's not that a machete needs to be made from higher end steel. I just want machetes that are made from higher end steels as I think a few others up here might as well.

Exactly!
I live in Florida, so saltwater is a constant.
The steels, for me personally, don’t even have to be that “high end” (although I guess that definition varies from person to person), just above soft 1075 levels.

Not to say it’s bad, but the Southern Grind machete is not a design I prefer for a number of reasons.

Spyderco has the ability to offer improved performance in this market with better geometry and steel, imo.

[zhyla]

When it comes to a stainless machete I could see a use for one especially in my environment. I live in Eastern NC so we have swamps, marshes and other wetlands that can be brackish at times.

Do you use a machete much in that environment? Do you have trouble with corrosion that affects the blade performance?

People seems to ask why make a machete from higher end steels. The same could be asked of certain Spyderco knives. Why make certain models with LC200N, K390 and Maxamet blades over H1, VG-10 and S30V?

LC200N/H1 make a ton of sense if you're using the knife around salt water a lot or are taking it in water a lot. And the higher end steels offer superior edge retention in an EDC knife which has obvious advantages.

In the same way with machetes it's not that a machete needs to be made from higher end steel. I just want machetes that are made from higher end steels as I think a few others up here might as well.

I think this is an assumption that probably needs some data or expert to weigh in on. Machetes are not slicing tools that get fine edges and are babied like a pocket knife. Here is an example of what a machete looks like after a weekend of use:



Making that blade out of what we normally think of as super steels isn't going to necessarily make it survive contact with a rock better. If you just "want" it in a different steel, fine, but I think most people are assuming expensive steel equals better performance.

Maybe there is a more ideal machete steel out there. But I feel like most of our communal knowledge about steel revolves around CATRA-style edge retention under slicing conditions, not the use pattern that machetes see (primarily chopping fibrous material, and occasional contact with hard objects). I would love to hear Larrin's thoughts on this.

[Fireman]

The user could make the edge that best suits their needs be it more slicey or more of a chopper. Why LC200N? That just happens to be a great steel that is impervious to rust as well as tough and easy to sharpen that I have a lot of experience with.

Why LC200N?
It is used in high end kitchen knives for good reason. My imaginary kitchen machete would most likely spend most of its time in the kitchen and then could take on all else with flying colors. My idea was to offer something that is not already on the market.

Why would you ever take a refined sharp edge suitable for slicing food outside to whack it against stuff? Why not just have a $10 machete and a nice kitchen knife?

And why LC200N? That’s not a very competitive steel for kitchen knives. You don’t need absolute corrosion resistance in the kitchen.