Steel Properties that Knife Companies Care about and Users Don’t

[Larrin]

A new article about differences between knifemakers/companies and buyers in terms of what steel properties they want. These are things that users and enthusiasts typically don't have to be concerned with but can be enlightening for understanding why knifemakers make the choices they do for steel. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/12/21/ ... sers-dont/

[skeeg11]

Thanks for giving end users some much needed perspective.

[Enactive]

Cool article, Larrin. This adds some much needed perspective on the industry.

[p_atrick]

Great article, as always. I like learning about the "behind the scenes" stuff that has real consequences on knife companies but that seem trivial to the end user.

[cbrstar]

This article made me think how it's kinda weird how the science behind hardening has been guess work for such a long time. And it's not until the advent of the internet that people are learning how to do it accurately.

https://archive.org/details/modernmetho ... 8/mode/2up

For example this old Watch Makers book from 1904 has a entire section on hardening, different steel types, and annealing. It mentions that if a certain type of steel is hardened too much it won't keep a edge and the lowest heat should be used. I find old books like this interesting. I imagine that a lot of it would be considered pretty cringeworthy these days lol.

I think the other big thing is the invention of guided sharpeners, and diamond/ceramic stones. I remember my Father telling me when I was a kid that a bayonet I was looking at was too hard to sharpen and I'd never get it sharp. Well now with my modern sharpener I can get it pretty dang sharp.

One thing that did surprise me in the article. Why doesn't knife makers use diamond polish like Watchmakers and Jewelers do? It's fast and easy.

[Larrin]

We have definitely understood heat treating from well before the internet. But we knew a lot more in 1910 than 1900, and a lot more in 1920 than 1910. Discoveries come more slowly as time advances. Most common tool steels existed by 1940.

[sal]

Hi Larrin,

Good stuff, as usual. We've also found that it you want to buy enough of an odd steel, the foundries will make more, like K390. For some reason, Spyderco customers seem to have a greater interest in the different flavors of steel than many others.

sal

[Fireman]

Larrin, I am still waiting on my T-Shirt. :cool:
You are the king of steel Nerds
Spyderco may be the commune of the steel cult with its plethora of metallurgical delights. There is another category which cannot be underestimated and that steel manufacturers deny, the pursuit of perfection. Steel means something to the faithful. Steel is analogous to a denomination within a religion. I may be of a certain faith but am willing to visit other churches of similar characteristics. A true believer is willing to transcend brands to achieve the metaphysical qualities of a certain steel. I, being in the cult of LC200N am willing to try other knives of the same cult. Their is a certain self righteousness we feel by being convinced of our own piety when we carry that steel that gives us an over inflated sense of our closeness to the divine. We put a lot of faith in our steels of choice and stay faithful to them. We steel puritans will not abide imperfections in our carbides and see our steel as status symbols sending signals like scale color to the other the other indoctrinated faithful.

[Larrin]

Hi Larrin,

Good stuff, as usual. We've also found that it you want to buy enough of an odd steel, the foundries will make more, like K390. For some reason, Spyderco customers seem to have a greater interest in the different flavors of steel than many others.

sal

I think it comes from both directions. You attract customers that are interested in different steels because of the wide variety of those available. And collectors that didn’t know as much have to learn about all the different options, and the collectors want one of everything. I think Spyderco is to be commended for working with so many steels despite the logistical challenges involved.

[curlyhairedboy]

I would agree, Larrin. The sheer variety of models and steels makes Spyderco stand out quite a bit.

[GarageBoy]

So why is 1095 so prevalent? I'm guessing availability, even though it's not as simple to heat treat well?

[Larrin]

So why is 1095 so prevalent? I'm guessing availability, even though it's not as simple to heat treat well?

How common you feel 1095 is probably depends on what knives you pay attention to. In "survival knives" several of the major manufacturers commonly use 1095 like ESEE, Ka-Bar, TOPS, and Ontario Knife Company. It was made as a standard by somebody early on and the rest followed suit. In slipjoint folders it is available through Great Eastern Cutlery and variants of 1095 like 1095CV in Case knives. So it is common in traditional folders, and has been for many years. The customers are used to seeing it. Of course 1095 is basically never used in "modern" folders. And while bladesmiths certainly use 1095 it is far from the most popular option. So 1095 does get used for sure; it is manufactured basically everywhere and has been around forever. But it isn't the default choice these days.

[GarageBoy]

Yeah, I was thinking of the Esee/KaBar/TOPS/OKC and traditional pocket knives guys - it's always 1095, not 1084, not an A series, W series, 5160, or 52100

[NarwhalisnotKosher]

I would agree, Larrin. The sheer variety of models and steels makes Spyderco stand out quite a bit.

Personally it's because I see Spyderco as fellow knife dorks. I like the large range of options, willingness to try something new and affinity to change it up. It stands out.

Designs that wouldn't fly anywhere else get made into classics. I think the people at Spyderco want to see how the different steels will perform as much or more than we do, and it's fun. It keeps things moving and interesting.

[Woodpuppy]

I would agree, Larrin. The sheer variety of models and steels makes Spyderco stand out quite a bit.

Personally it's because I see Spyderco as fellow knife dorks. I like the large range of options, willingness to try something new and affinity to change it up. It stands out.

Designs that wouldn't fly anywhere else get made into classics. I think the people at Spyderco want to see how the different steels will perform as much or more than we do, and it's fun. It keeps things moving and interesting.

I agree! There’s a level of enthusiasm and exploration with Spyderco that I don’t see elsewhere. You might call it love.

[JD Spydo]

I've been watching this thread with a lot of interest. And last night I was thinking that up until maybe the past 15 to 20 years hardly no one knew or cared much at all what blade steel any knife was made with. Most guys I grew up with (60s & 70s) were fixated on the "COOL" aspect of a knife. In other words does it look "COOL" or tactical or something a mall ninja would drool over.

To my best memory it was Spyderco & Benchmade both that I cut my knife loving teeth back in the early and mid 90s>> those two companies were the first ones I can remember that would let you know what they used. Until I owned anything made by those two companies I never had a clue what types of blade steels any of these companies or Custom makers either for that matter used in their finished products. But overall it hasn't really been all that long at all that even the most ardent consumers made a big deal about it.

I used to just rely on buying knives from companies that I was assured that made their blades with good steel. If the knife wasn't made by a reputable ( Mostly USA made) company I just didn't buy it. Even to this day at least 19 out of 20 people I show my knives to have no idea of what steel the blade is made with even though it's embossed on the heel of most modern blades.

[cbrstar]

We have definitely understood heat treating from well before the internet. But we knew a lot more in 1910 than 1900, and a lot more in 1920 than 1910. Discoveries come more slowly as time advances. Most common tool steels existed by 1940.

What I really meant is a person like myself can go out and buy a kilm, then if I follow the instructions by the steel manufacturer there is a good chance of a decent result. Thanks to the internet a lot of the guess work is removed.

There was a lot of advancments yet to come in watches. But In 1904 there was still quite a large cottage industry of Watchmakers making watches from scratch. They also often still made thier own tooling. But they knew exactly how large to make for example a hour wheel. Or what oil properties they needed. So reading about the guess work on the metallurgy is interesting to me. They were observing things and describing them like crystallization. I just think it shows how hard metallurgy can be to learn and get right.