Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

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Doc Dan
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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby Doc Dan » Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:50 pm

spoonrobot wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:52 pm
Mine had pretty bad side-to-side play that seems to be going away the more I use the knife. Perhaps the integral bearing surface of the FRN handles was too proud for the tang thickness?
How odd. Perhaps there was some crud in the knife and it worked its way out? It could be as you suggest, but that would mean a lot of wear on the pivot area of the scales to rectify this, wouldn't it?
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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby James Y » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:35 am

The LC200N Pac Salt had been my most-anticipated production knife for 2021, but until or unless there is some CQI done for more consistent quality, it’s completely off my radar. And I’m OK with that.

I’ve never heard of such issues with the long-time hollow-ground Pac Salt.

Jim

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:40 am

James Y wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:35 am
The LC200N Pac Salt had been my most-anticipated production knife for 2021, but until or unless there is some CQI done for more consistent quality, it’s completely off my radar. And I’m OK with that.

I’ve never heard of such issues with the long-time hollow-ground Pac Salt.

Sadly, it is the same with me.

I probably would not mind the risk of that kind of blade play in any other Spyderco I´d be interested in, but an Endura-style knife with an FFG SE blade is the perfect knife for me, one I have advocated for a lot and started several threads on it (before it became reality) - somehow the model that will end my search for the perfect folder functionally speaking.
It will certainly become my most carried folder, and in that role I just want it to be as good as my current H1 Pac Salt 1...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:44 am

One question for all who own the yellow/black H1 (sabre hollow grind) Pac Salt 2:

Does this model also have blade play issues? It shares the exact same handle (as far as I know) with the green ffg LC200N models, but I don´t recall any accounts of such issues - ?!
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby araneae » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:43 am

I think we should distinguish between minimal lock rock which is vertical/up and down and fairly normal with Spyderco, and blade play in the horizontal/side to side direction.

The video previously posted is frankly gas station knife level appalling. Having a few other folks mention side to side makes me certain that there was at least some production issue and QC lapse with this first run. I certainly will be waiting a good while before considering trying one out.
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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby tonijedi » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:11 am

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:40 am

Sadly, it is the same with me.
The problem is, when is the current EU stock be replenished? Here the knives don't move as fast as in the US... Either you find a new vendor or you may wait years for the usual shop of yours to rotate stock.

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby Cricket Bite » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:21 am

tonijedi wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:11 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:40 am

Sadly, it is the same with me.
The problem is, when is the current EU stock be replenished? Here the knives don't move as fast as in the US... Either you find a new vendor or you may wait years for the usual shop of yours to rotate stock.
Most if not all the US is out of stock ck as well. My guess is they are giving it a quality control (CQI?) fix and will start pumping them out again once QC issues are solved.

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby Menipo » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:29 am

tonijedi wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:11 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:40 am

Sadly, it is the same with me.

The problem is, when is the current EU stock be replenished? Here the knives don't move as fast as in the US... Either you find a new vendor or you may wait years for the usual shop of yours to rotate stock.

If you want to buy this model online from an European dealer now, knivesandtools (The Netherlands) have both the PE and SE for 144,50 EUR. I highly doubt that any physical store in the Iberian Peninsula will have them in stock soon.

That said, and after reading what has been said in this thread, I would wait a few months for the problem units to be removed from stock and replaced. Knivesandtools or Lamnia usually have the models a month after they hit Americandas stores, at the latest.

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby James Y » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:34 am

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:40 am
James Y wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:35 am
The LC200N Pac Salt had been my most-anticipated production knife for 2021, but until or unless there is some CQI done for more consistent quality, it’s completely off my radar. And I’m OK with that.

I’ve never heard of such issues with the long-time hollow-ground Pac Salt.

Sadly, it is the same with me.

I probably would not mind the risk of that kind of blade play in any other Spyderco I´d be interested in, but an Endura-style knife with an FFG SE blade is the perfect knife for me, one I have advocated for a lot and started several threads on it (before it became reality) - somehow the model that will end my search for the perfect folder functionally speaking.
It will certainly become my most carried folder, and in that role I just want it to be as good as my current H1 Pac Salt 1...


I’m guessing (only a guess) that one of (or some of) the molds for the FRN handle for the green Pac Salts has one or more defects. G. Sakai probably doesn’t use the same molds for the hollow-ground Pac Salts, because of the different FRN colors. I could be wrong, but if I am, why don’t we seem to be hearing the same complaints about the H1 Pac Salt 2 (either black or yellow) with the same handle design? Something is affecting the tolerances on a noticeable percentage of the green Pac Salts.

Even the loose screws are an issue. Maybe not much of an issue to Spyderco afi’s, but your average non-knife afi or non-knife-forum member who might buy a green Pac Salt, who isn’t into tinkering with their knives, will probably just want to use it as a tool right out of the box, not even considering that the screws may fall out, or have to be put in and Loctited properly in the first place. They could be on a boat or camping, and discover one of the screws is just gone. This creates a terrible impression of a product.

Jim

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby kirilpetkov » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:52 am

My knife is perfect, there are no gaps, it is perfectly centered. Does anyone know what the hardness of steel is?

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:35 pm

I wonder if, should that kind of side to side play occur, adding one (on one side) or two (one on each side) thin washers could be a solution?
I don´t care for perfect bladecentering at all, as long as the blade does not rub at the inside of the scales, so if adding just one washer would work, I´d do that.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby araneae » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:10 pm

Cricket Bite wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:21 am
tonijedi wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:11 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:40 am

Sadly, it is the same with me.
The problem is, when is the current EU stock be replenished? Here the knives don't move as fast as in the US... Either you find a new vendor or you may wait years for the usual shop of yours to rotate stock.
Most if not all the US is out of stock ck as well. My guess is they are giving it a quality control (CQI?) fix and will start pumping them out again once QC issues are solved.
This apparent problem was just identified here. I don't think any CQI fix is underway involving pulling stock. I'd imagine the first run came in and went out to dealers and in most cases has or is selling out. Some portion of those first run knives seem to have an issue.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
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The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby araneae » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:18 pm

James Y wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:34 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:40 am
James Y wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:35 am
The LC200N Pac Salt had been my most-anticipated production knife for 2021, but until or unless there is some CQI done for more consistent quality, it’s completely off my radar. And I’m OK with that.

I’ve never heard of such issues with the long-time hollow-ground Pac Salt.

Sadly, it is the same with me.

I probably would not mind the risk of that kind of blade play in any other Spyderco I´d be interested in, but an Endura-style knife with an FFG SE blade is the perfect knife for me, one I have advocated for a lot and started several threads on it (before it became reality) - somehow the model that will end my search for the perfect folder functionally speaking.
It will certainly become my most carried folder, and in that role I just want it to be as good as my current H1 Pac Salt 1...


I’m guessing (only a guess) that one of (or some of) the molds for the FRN handle for the green Pac Salts has one or more defects. G. Sakai probably doesn’t use the same molds for the hollow-ground Pac Salts, because of the different FRN colors. I could be wrong, but if I am, why don’t we seem to be hearing the same complaints about the H1 Pac Salt 2 (either black or yellow) with the same handle design? Something is affecting the tolerances on a noticeable percentage of the green Pac Salts.

Even the loose screws are an issue. Maybe not much of an issue to Spyderco afi’s, but your average non-knife afi or non-knife-forum member who might buy a green Pac Salt, who isn’t into tinkering with their knives, will probably just want to use it as a tool right out of the box, not even considering that the screws may fall out, or have to be put in and Loctited properly in the first place. They could be on a boat or camping, and discover one of the screws is just gone. This creates a terrible impression of a product.

Jim
It seems unlikely that they created molds for a different color of handle. Molds aren't cheap, can you imagine how many they'd need if they had to get more each time a color was added?

Something was off (and CQ missed it), we can speculate, but I'm sure Spyderco will get to the bottom of this and future batches will be right.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
-Nick

Just got: Zcarta Shaman

The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby emanuel » Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:07 am

No issues with any blade play at all in any direction with both Pac Salt 1 and 2, H1 steel versions. That huge blade play in that clip must definitely be from a manufacturing issue.

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby brj » Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:31 am

Got mine from Lamnia and couldn't be happier.

Image

The Seki vertical-play is there, but not as bad as I expected (the H1 one is a bit worse). There is no lateral bladeplay, but that is achieved at the cost of what seems like sandwiching only one washer between the blade and the left scale (presentation side).

Image

Caveat: I might be wrong, I haven't taken it down to confirm this (I'd rather not mess with the setup as I'm a happy camper as it is). My H1 PS2 has no lateral play whatsoever but it's of the locking-bar-standing-proud-of-the-handle variety instead.

None of my PS1s have lateral bladeplay but exhibit certain degrees of vertical lock rock.
Last edited by brj on Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby brj » Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:01 am

double post

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:41 am

brj wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:31 am
Got mine from Lamnia and couldn't be happier.

The Seki vertical-play is there, but not as bad as I expected (the H1 one is a bit worse). There is no lateral bladeplay, but that is achieved at the cost of what seems like sandwiching only one washer between the blade and the left scale (presentation side).

Caveat: I might be wrong, I haven't taken it down to confirm this (I'd rather not mess with the setup as I'm a happy camper as it is). My H1 PS2 has no lateral play whatsoever but it's of the locking-bar-standing-proud-of-the-handle variety instead.

None of my PS1s have lateral bladeplay but exhibit certain degrees of vertical lock rock.

Really? One washer added? That is exactly what I proposed as a possible do-it-yourself-solution in an earlier post... almost can´t believe that this was done in the Spyderco-factory and then not to ALL models?!
Could it be that you got a piece that someone already modded and still returned?!
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby brj » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:10 am

Could be, I guess - in which case I thank them for a job well done :) .

Might not be a washer at all (this is why I've been using all the disclaimers above) but it's the only explanation I'm being able to come up with based on looks alone and without tearing it apart. Excluding the (quite) wide gap between the lock and the presentation side handle slab, the knife is flawless.

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby Pancake » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:33 am

brj wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:10 am
Could be, I guess - in which case I thank them for a job well done :) .

Might not be a washer at all (this is why I've been using all the disclaimers above) but it's the only explanation I'm being able to come up with based on looks alone and without tearing it apart. Excluding the (quite) wide gap between the lock and the presentation side handle slab, the knife is flawless.
Pacific Salt 2 should be washerless, I would disassemble the knife and just look inside.

It is completely possible to add washers, but the end result might be unpredictable.

Honestly, up and down play is just a nature of a backlock, and one should just learn to live with it.
But side to side play is unacceptable.
Such a shame, this knife was really speaking to me....but there are still a lot of other lightweight options, such as Manix LW.
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45

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Re: Any blade play in the New Green Pac Salt?

Postby skeeg11 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:56 pm

Pancake wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:33 am
brj wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:10 am
Could be, I guess - in which case I thank them for a job well done :) .

Might not be a washer at all (this is why I've been using all the disclaimers above) but it's the only explanation I'm being able to come up with based on looks alone and without tearing it apart. Excluding the (quite) wide gap between the lock and the presentation side handle slab, the knife is flawless.
Pacific Salt 2 should be washerless, I would disassemble the knife and just look inside.

It is completely possible to add washers, but the end result might be unpredictable.

Honestly, up and down play is just a nature of a backlock, and one should just learn to live with it.
But side to side play is unacceptable.
Such a shame, this knife was really speaking to me....but there are still a lot of other lightweight options, such as Manix LW.
I'm gonna disagree here. My Chinese Byrds are drop shutty and lock up like vaults with absolutely no play in any direction. If a budget Chinese knife maker can do that, why can't Seki City?


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