Caribbean Troubles

[Deniblu]

Hi, first time posting, I’d be grateful for your help.

So I picked up a Caribbean, great knife, but the action was rather stiff which I understand is common with this knife. I loosened the pivot screw and and it didn’t really help so I decided to just take the whole thing apart and use a little lube on the bronze washers.

Big mistake! For the life of me I cannot get this thing to function properly now. Much worse than before! The problem is when I tighten the pivot screws, just to the point where they are snug, the blade is barely moveable. If I loosen the screws to the point where the blade is able to pivot smoothly, then there is play in the pivot assembly and the scales wiggle at that point where the pivot screw should be holding them snug. The floating stop pin is also rattling now. I don’t believe that it had any grease or locktite before to keep it from rattling, I think I was just pressed snugly on the sides by the scales.

So something is wrong. It seems like I should be able to tighten the pivot screw to the point where there is no play in the assembly and the stop pin is compressed on the sides to keep it snug. I’ve tried moving the bronze washers around, swapping sides thinking maybe they liked being oriented a certain way, that they had a slight curvature. Nothing works. The pivot assembly is still binding down on the blade.

What am I doing wrong? I’ve taken apart many pm2s and never had any trouble like this.

[soulspy]

The pivot and stop pin interplay has been different on most of my PM2's. Some I can crank the pivot tight and loosen the stop pin and get great action. Others have the stop pin snug and the pivot loose.

I'd just keep messing with it. Actually maybe put it down and come back with fresh patience and then try again

[curlyhairedboy]

I'd recommend continued use to break it in at first.

[VooDooChild]

Disassemble and try to reassemble it again. You might have to do this a few times.

I have had pretty good luck with my leaf se caribbean. I have taken it apart 3 times and always got it back together like it was out of the box.

My stop pin started rattling as well. Was told to use a little grease.

For the record there is a very small amount of side to side play in the caribbean that I cant seem dial out without the pivot becoming too tight.

I cant stand the compression lock on the caribbean compared with every other compression lock knife spyderco makes. I dont know why they cant make it like the kapara, canis, shaman, pm2, etc. I would at least like to see a stepped floating stop pin so it wont rattle.

[Deniblu]

A dab of grease on both sides of the lock pin stopped the rattling.

But the main problem remains. The second that I tighten the pivot enough so that there is no play in the assembly (what I mean by that is that the scales will wiggle around the pivot bolt) the blade will become unflickable and will only open and close with decent force. Loosen the pivot to the point where it flicks nicely and it introduces play.

It seems to be a choice: a tight knife or one with good action.

I’ve taken this one apart over 20 times now.

[Deniblu]

To elaborate on the play I’m experiencing, it’s the scale on the compression lock side that is wiggling around. Maybe it’s more of a liner/scale nesting issue than a pivot screw isn’t tight enough issue, though I didn’t notice it before I took the knife apart. It’s not critical but it makes the knife feel and sound cheap. Should I use some loctite or adhesive in between the liner and scale? Should I stop caring?

[Robbob]

To elaborate on the play I’m experiencing, it’s the scale on the compression lock side that is wiggling around. Maybe it’s more of a liner/scale nesting issue than a pivot screw isn’t tight enough issue, though I didn’t notice it before I took the knife apart. It’s not critical but it makes the knife feel and sound cheap. Should I use some loctite or adhesive in between the liner and scale? Should I stop caring?

I would send it to Spyderco, or ask the dealer for an exchange.

[Evil D]

Without seeing you put it together I couldn't say, but the sweet spot for getting the pivot just right is much smaller than a Para 2 because the pivots are completely different (Para uses a bushing pivot, Caribbean does not). You shouldn't be anywhere even near "snug" on the pivot screw or it will definitely be over tightened.

If you took the WHOLE knife apart meaning both sides and all the screws (again I have no idea what your routine is or how you're working), I tend to work from the presentation side when the lock allows it so put the whole back side of the handle back together but don't tighten the scale screws just screw them in until they're holding the scale to the liner.

Next put your pivot pin in and the washer on, and personally I recommend using bearing grease on the washers. I've had far more success dialing in pivots with grease than with any other lube including fancy stuff like Nano lube. I put small dabs of grease on both sides of the washers, put the blade on the pivot, dab the other washer and then sandwich it all together.

Your next step is putting scale screws in. You could put the pivot screw in at this time but it gets tightened LAST. When you do the scale screws you need to work in a torque sequence around the scales, turning each screw in small increments. If you just start hammering them down in a random order you can easily throw the scales/liners out of parallel and that'll directly effect pivot action. Scale screws can be totally snugged down within reason, these are tiny screws not car lug nuts.

Once you're ready for the pivot, at this point I've got the back side pivot screw all the way tightened and I usually only fiddle with the presentation side screw. Sometimes when I have blade centering issues I'll switch sides and sometimes that helps to center the blade. I'd recommend using literally only two fingers on your screwdriver...you're making very fine adjustments here until the pivot is just right. Literally 1/10th of a turn will make all the difference.


I have two Caribbeans. Full disclosure, I also polish the tangs on almost all my knives, so that does help to make the action smoother and allows me to snug the pivot more while still allowing it to drop shut. Ultimately though this style of pivot isn't going to dial in as nice as some of the bushing pivots. I have Militaries that I can crank all the way tight as hard as I can turn them and the blades still drop shut. That's just the reality of pivot design differences. I can still get my Caribbeans dialed in to an acceptable little to no blade play and still have the blades drop shut.

Gotta remember, these aren't Lego sets. As much as people want to believe they're just simple screw apart and screw together construction, that couldn't be further from the truth. On mine I even go so far as to remember which sides the washers go on and even which side of the washers face the blade, because flipping them and mixing them up makes a difference.

[Sumdumguy]

Sounds to me like the stop pin screw is too tight.

If the stop pin is screwed too tight, the liners will not be parallel to the tang and will cause drag.

[juggler]

The second that I tighten the pivot enough so that there is no play in the assembly (what I mean by that is that the scales will wiggle around the pivot bolt) the blade will become unflickable and will only open and close with decent force. Loosen the pivot to the point where it flicks nicely and it introduces play.

I have the same problem with my Caribbean: if I want even a moderately smooth opening/closing then there's always going to be some play in the handle (I can feel the handle scale on the lock side shifting every time I tighten and/or change my grip).

I haven't taken the knife apart but I don't think I will: I tried that with a lockback once, and let's just say it didn't turn out as well as I would have liked :rolleyes: ... so I probably won't risk it with a compression lock.

I'll try to put some oil on the pivot... and if it still doesn't work I might tighten the pivot all the way and essentially turn the Caribbean into a fixed blade :p . Which is a shame, because it would otherwise be my favorite Spyderco of all time (size, ergonomics and design are outstanding).

[JuPaul]

The second that I tighten the pivot enough so that there is no play in the assembly (what I mean by that is that the scales will wiggle around the pivot bolt) the blade will become unflickable and will only open and close with decent force. Loosen the pivot to the point where it flicks nicely and it introduces play.

I have the same problem with my Caribbean: if I want even a moderately smooth opening/closing then there's always going to be some play in the handle (I can feel the handle scale on the lock side shifting every time I tighten and/or change my grip).

I haven't taken the knife apart but I don't think I will: I tried that with a lockback once, and let's just say it didn't turn out as well as I would have liked :rolleyes: ... so I probably won't risk it with a compression lock.

I'll try to put some oil on the pivot... and if it still doesn't work I might tighten the pivot all the way and essentially turn the Caribbean into a fixed blade :p . Which is a shame, because it would otherwise be my favorite Spyderco of all time (size, ergonomics and design are outstanding).

I haven't taken apart my Caribbean either, but I will say that in my experience, putting a comp lock knife back together is significantly less of a PITA than putting a backlock together (especially a Seki backlock). Of course I'm not trying to persuade you to disassemble your knife if you're not comfortable doing it!

[juggler]

in my experience, putting a comp lock knife back together is significantly less of a PITA than putting a backlock together

Thanks, that's good to know.

Of course I'm not trying to persuade you to disassemble your knife if you're not comfortable doing it!

I may have to try it anyway if nothing else works, because once again I really love the knife otherwise and I can't see myself giving up on it just yet.

[BLUETYPEII]

FYI I’m not someone who takes my knives apart.

I have seen a few videos of knife disassembly and sometimes it’s suggested that “if the action is poor after reassembly you may want to flip one or both of the pivot washers.

Not sure if this will help you, something to take into consideration when disassembling though. I’ve heard orientation of the washer can be very important. Or just take note of the washer position before you remove them the first time.

I have a Caribbean, it’s one of my favorites and my main user. I’ve never taken it apart, it was stiff when new but after quite a bit of use and time the action has worked in quite nicely and it will almost drop shut now. The Caribbean still locks up solid with no up and down or side to side blade play.

I think you have to exercise a little bit of patience with this model as far as the breaking in period. I’ve had mine since late 2018 or early 2019.

Is the Caribbean you’re having problems with a CQI version? (CQI version would have black hardware)

[James Y]

I’m actually a bit surprised to hear about Caribbeans having overly-tight action. Mine has always had a much looser action than any of my Golden-made comp locks. Yet it still has zero blade play in any direction. The detent is softer than on my Golden comp locks. I had thought the Caribbean was just designed that way.

TBH, I don’t disassemble my knives. If the problem is big enough, I would just send it in to Spyderco to have a look at. I know that some (many) Spyderco owners regularly disassemble their knives and are good at it; but personally, I would trust a professional to do it over me trying to tinker with it myself.

Jim

[juggler]

Or just take note of the washer position before you remove them the first time.

If I ever take the knife apart, I'll make sure to take close-up pictures at every step. And I'll definitely watch at least a video on the disassembly first (I think Nick Shabazz made one).

The Caribbean still locks up solid with no up and down or side to side blade play.

Oh, I can have a smooth opening and no blade play at the same time. The problem is more like "handle play": the scale on the lock side keeps shifting up and down when I grip the knife (and every time I change my grip), as if the pivot hole was a bit too large for the pivot screw (I'm not saying that's what's happening: it's just what it feels like). I think that was also the OP's trouble, if I'm not mistaken.

Is the Caribbean you’re having problems with a CQI version? (CQI version would have black hardware)

Yes, it's the newer version with the black hardware.

[BLUETYPEII]

Or just take note of the washer position before you remove them the first time.

If I ever take the knife apart, I'll make sure to take close-up pictures at every step. And I'll definitely watch at least a video on the disassembly first (I think Nick Shabazz made one).

The Caribbean still locks up solid with no up and down or side to side blade play.

Oh, I can have a smooth opening and no blade play at the same time. The problem is more like "handle play": the scale on the lock side keeps shifting up and down when I grip the knife (and every time I change my grip), as if the pivot hole was a bit too large for the pivot screw (I'm not saying that's what's happening: it's just what it feels like). I think that was also the OP's trouble, if I'm not mistaken.

Is the Caribbean you’re having problems with a CQI version? (CQI version would have black hardware)

Yes, it's the newer version with the black hardware.

I almost forgot, I do have a slight rattle in the Caribbean that most likely is coming from the stop pin, never bothered me. It only happens in the closed position and I can’t hear it when it’s in my pocket so no big deal.

[Deniblu]

Yes, this is the problem I’m having, what juggler said.

Originally I thought it was a pivot screw/blade action issue but with further examination it’s not.

It’s a liner/scale nesting issue only on the compression lock side. The opposite side seems impervious to this problem by design: it has a bunch of circles where the liner fits into the scale. On the compression lock side however there are not as many points up forward where the scale fits into the liner. As a result there is little wiggle side to side where the liner sits in its nest. Really a shame because I want to love this knife so much. The blade shape, steel, ergonomics are all so considered and perfect.

[Deniblu]

And mine is also the newer version with black hardware.

[Bill1170]

FYI I’m not someone who takes my knives apart.

I have seen a few videos of knife disassembly and sometimes it’s suggested that “if the action is poor after reassembly you may want to flip one or both of the pivot washers.

Not sure if this will help you, something to take into consideration when disassembling though. I’ve heard orientation of the washer can be very important. Or just take note of the washer position before you remove them the first time.

I have a Caribbean, it’s one of my favorites and my main user. I’ve never taken it apart, it was stiff when new but after quite a bit of use and time the action has worked in quite nicely and it will almost drop shut now. The Caribbean still locks up solid with no up and down or side to side blade play.

I think you have to exercise a little bit of patience with this model as far as the breaking in period. I’ve had mine since late 2018 or early 2019.

Is the Caribbean you’re having problems with a CQI version? (CQI version would have black hardware)

My Gen 1 Caribbean is like yours. Stiff at first, it now will almost drop shut and can be flipped shut very easily when the lock tab is depressed. It isn’t as drop-shutty as my PM2, but I’m pleased at how it is wearing in. I’ve never taken it apart.

[Jefft51]

I don't know if this is your issue, but with my Caribbean I was having trouble with the action and adjusting the pivot screw was making it either too sloppy or too tight. What I discovered was that when I was holding it, I was putting slight pressure in the middle of the scale and there was enough flex that it would not operate smoothly. So I learned that opening and closing it to not pinch the middle of the knife and was the able to adjust satisfactorily.