S110V Steel - History and Properties

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Larrin
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S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby Larrin » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:06 am

A new article finishing off the series on very high edge retention stainless knife steels. I wrote about the history of the steel, the design including why it has cobalt and niobium, and then show my tests on the steel including hardness, corrosion resistance, toughness, and edge retention. I also compared it to S90V and M398 and included guidance on when to select which high edge retention stainless. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/11/23/ ... roperties/
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The Meat man
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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby The Meat man » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:23 am

I really liked this article. Thank you again for sharing your knowledge!
- Connor

"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby M Sea » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:42 am

Excellent article, as a fan of S110V, I thoroughly enjoyed it and learned a lot. Thank you.
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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby zuludelta » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:30 am

Excellent article, and great job uncovering the little-known composition change between the original S110V & the production version. I wonder what the full story is behind it? Hopefully someone with behind-the-scenes knowledge will eventually let you know what it is.

Your article also helps vindicate, I think, Spyderco's decision to use S110V as the high-wear resistance stainless steel option for its flagship Golden, Colorado models.

Thanks again, Larrin, for sharing your work with us.

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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby Cycletroll » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:58 pm

Really interesting Larrin!
Curious all the development that went into the final recipe.
Your article pretty much validates my own steel choices: s90v is my favorite all around user steel with m390/204p for high corrosion encounters. S35vn is my user "tough stainess".
I've never really been drawn to s110v; just always preferred s90v. Possibly because of the models its offered in.
Once again, thanks for your excellent insights and scientific validation.

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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby AlexRus » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:42 pm

Very interesting, thank you Larrin!

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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby blueblur » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:44 pm

I thanks for the article. Since you posted your edge retention article I’ve been wanting to learn more about S90V and s110v. Thanks!

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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby GarageBoy » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:23 pm

Interesting seeing how all the alloying components come together

Seems like a lot went into the development of s110v to make an improved s90v that ended up with worse edge retention and better corrosion resistance? Does s110v's finer grain structure allow it to hold a finer edge longer?

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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby kobold » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:01 am

Thank you Larrin for all the intricate details, great read.
SpydieChef, Swayback, Manix2 S110V G10, Gayle Bradley 2,
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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby Larrin » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:21 am

Thanks guys I'm glad you liked it. Lots of semi-complicated descriptions of alloy element effects so I'm glad it is making sense to some people.
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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby GarageBoy » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:25 am

"However, this steel has high hardness and corrosion resistance which can mean excess retained austenite which sometimes leads to inflated toughness values. This behavior was seen with M390 when austenitizing too high. And with some users reporting difficulty in deburring S110V (usually means high retained austenite), I’m not sure I would actually recommend heat treating S110V from 2150°F despite the apparent superior hardness-toughness balance."

So the higher austenitizing temperature leads to more hardness for the same toughness (which sounds good), but that is offset with too much retained austenite?

Thanks Larrin!

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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby Larrin » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:28 am

GarageBoy wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:25 am
"However, this steel has high hardness and corrosion resistance which can mean excess retained austenite which sometimes leads to inflated toughness values. This behavior was seen with M390 when austenitizing too high. And with some users reporting difficulty in deburring S110V (usually means high retained austenite), I’m not sure I would actually recommend heat treating S110V from 2150°F despite the apparent superior hardness-toughness balance."

So the higher austenitizing temperature leads to more hardness for the same toughness (which sounds good), but that is offset with too much retained austenite?

Thanks Larrin!
Retained austenite can improve toughness, but beyond certain amounts it gives us problems. Low yield strength (the steel deforms like it is lower in hardness) and difficulty in deburring.
http://www.KnifeSteelNerds.com - Steel Metallurgy topics related to knives

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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby Fireman » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:15 am

Larrin, first of all I am grateful for your sharing your nerd with the world spawning new generations of steel nerds. I hope that people reward your patreon account if your information helps people decide on a knife. Your help in making data points digestible to the masses brings metallurgy from the dark arts of alchemy to knowledge nibbles at an all you can eat buffet. That said, I have been trying to figure out what is better, S90v or 110V for a while and you have helped me figure that out. They say, in steel there are no solutions, only compromises and that stays a constant. If I want more stain resistance I will chose s110v and if I want a slight edge (See what I did there) in performance, s90v.

Thank you for being my sensei of steel.

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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby cbrstar » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:06 pm

I can see the issue of sharpening as BITD I lucked out and got a Blurple Military used at a great price. At the time I had a Lanksy Sharpener where I had replaced some of the finer grits with diamond but still had the regular ones for the course. I swear sharpening the S110V wore out the regular stones (beveled) in only a couple of sharpening's. I replaced the stones with diamond and haven't had any trouble since. I think a lot of people are like me where they buy the knife before they buy a good sharpener.

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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby JD Spydo » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:11 pm

Well Larrin as usual you've hit another home run thread. I have one back up EDC folder with S110V and the times I've used it I've been impressed. I have the Blurple Para2 model with that steel and in places where blade length is an issue I'll probably be using it a lot at some point.

It sounds like this S110V would probably make for a great fixed blade. Again you've made a lot of stuff easy to understand for the layperson. It's been nothing short of incredible to see how blade steels are evolving since I became a devout Spyderhead with my first one back in 1995. Since then it's been astounding to see the progress made in this area of technology.

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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby Larrin » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:19 pm

JD Spydo wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:11 pm
It's been nothing short of incredible to see how blade steels are evolving since I became a devout Spyderhead with my first one back in 1995. Since then it's been astounding to see the progress made in this area of technology.
Hopefully the advancements keep coming!
http://www.KnifeSteelNerds.com - Steel Metallurgy topics related to knives

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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby The Mastiff » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:31 pm

I've had S110v at rc 64.5 and the highest S90V hardness I've tried was around rc 59 ish. I had always thought the S110v was designed to perform at the higher hardnesses. It's one of the few stainless steels I really respect and has been since I bought a high performing custom from Phil at http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/

Larrin, is there any serious work being done with titanium carbide steels and with what results?

Thanks.

Joe

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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby Larrin » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:26 pm

The Mastiff wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:31 pm
I've had S110v at rc 64.5 and the highest S90V hardness I've tried was around rc 59 ish. I had always thought the S110v was designed to perform at the higher hardnesses. It's one of the few stainless steels I really respect and has been since I bought a high performing custom from Phil at http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/

Larrin, is there any serious work being done with titanium carbide steels and with what results?

Thanks.

Joe
Titanium carbide steels are definitely not unheard of, it is especially common as a "microalloy" element. I don't see any titanium alloyed tool steels though apart from scattered journal articles. It is an even stronger carbide former than niobium which means it is even more limited in how much you can use before the carbide size starts to shoot up.
Last edited by Larrin on Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby The Mastiff » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:04 pm

Thank you Larrin. It has been tough for me to find information on it. I had read about titanium carbides and how wear resistant they are but everything has been very limited in scope and depth.

Joe

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Re: S110V Steel - History and Properties

Postby Bill1170 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:21 pm

Larrin wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:21 am
Thanks guys I'm glad you liked it. Lots of semi-complicated descriptions of alloy element effects so I'm glad it is making sense to some people.
You did a good job using language, which is linear/sequential, to describe the complex interrelated properties of various alloying elements, which is most definitely not strictly linear. That is tough to map onto language.


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