Have you owned a Spyderco lockback with zero play?

[bearfacedkiller]

All of my Native5s have zero play as does my Sage4 and Chap. I own a large pile of Japanese lockbacks and they all have some play.

I don’t understand how folks can say that Japanese knives lack blade play. It has been quite noticeable on every one of the dozens that I have owned.

[Evil D]

Pretty sure I mentioned this in the other thread, my Native 5's are stupid solid. They don't wiggle in any direction. Really impressive for a linerless no washer lightweight.

[p_atrick]

I voted yes. P4LW has some minor play. Like others have stated, I'm not worried about safety implications of this.

[vivi]

Pretty sure I mentioned this in the other thread, my Native 5's are stupid solid. They don't wiggle in any direction. Really impressive for a linerless no washer lightweight.

I may end up picking up a chap or native 5 just to check out their lock-up.

[Xplorer]

My Siren and my Natives are tighter than the others I have. The Native is the best example of backlock lock design ever created.

[blades&wrenches]

Haven’t been able to get much play out of any of the Natives or Chaparrals I’ve owned.

[Evil D]

Pretty sure I mentioned this in the other thread, my Native 5's are stupid solid. They don't wiggle in any direction. Really impressive for a linerless no washer lightweight.

I may end up picking up a chap or native 5 just to check out their lock-up.

I'd expect the Chap to be even better since it has liners and an internal stop pin too.

[prndltech]

Chaparral here, haven’t got a native to develop any yet.... but I’m trying :p

[skeeg11]

My LC200N Pac Salt 2 has that Seki lock rock. A tight hammer grip will slightly depress the lock bar on my Siren allowing some vertical closing play. I have two Byrds. A Hawk bill and a Cara Cara 2 Rescue. They lock up like vaults even when really leaning on them. Zero play. The Cara Cara 2 Rescue is also Spydie flickable and drop shutty. Go figure.

[Holland]

Pretty sure I mentioned this in the other thread, my Native 5's are stupid solid. They don't wiggle in any direction. Really impressive for a linerless no washer lightweight.

I may end up picking up a chap or native 5 just to check out their lock-up.

The Taiwan lockbacks cheat with the internal stop pins. Feels the same as any other lock that has a stop pin.

The USA lockbacks have a way more refined higher quality lock compared to Japan, but I still can force some play in my siren and N5s if I try to cut a block of cheese in half for example

[Abyss_Fish]

Easy peasy. Both my backlocks are play free.

Native 5 G10 (which mind you is a bladeswap) and the ladybug

[Doc Dan]

What I seem to read is that it just depends on the knife. Some are going to have a little play (perhaps most) and some are not going to have any. That fits with these knives being made by humans. Things are rarely perfect. I have a teal Endura with no up and down play but it has a little bit of side to side. My older gray Endura has no side to side, and no noticeable up and down until I push hard on a cutting board, and then it is lock rock. My Native 5 and my Chaparrals do not move at all. My new forest green Delica has no up and down and the only side to side I can induce also flexes the handle, so that is a lot of pressure and it is really flex, not play.

[Sharp Guy]

I don’t understand how folks can say that Japanese knives lack blade play. It has been quite noticeable on every one of the dozens that I have owned.

After reading this and a small part of Chad's explanation (before he edited) of how back locks have to have some play even if it can't be perceived I decided I needed to look closely at my Spyderco back locks. I checked over 25 knives (including several Japanese models) and most of them had no perceivable side-to-side or vertical play. But..I was checking by hand. I'd check side-to-side by gripping the blade near the tip and vertical by pulling up on the Spydie hole. I felt a very small wiggle on a few including a couple FRN dragonflies and two Calys. None had any play that was quite noticeable. Then I read Holland's comment about forcing some play when cutting through a cheese block (haha). Not having a cheese block handy I decided to use a hardwood block that I keep on my work bench. I pressed the blades straight down into the block and I could feel a tiny amount of vertical movement on most of the knives including a few of my Native 5 LWs. However, some knives I couldn't see or feel any movement. My Sage 4, various Natives, Chaps, and even some of my Delicas were surprisingly solid

A couple of thoughts that some may disagree with. I don't really consider a tiny, almost imperceivable, amount of lock rock to actually be blade play. The tang is forcing the lock bar to move. Also, if I have to lean on a knife hard enough to feel that tiny amount of lock rock either the blade is too dull or I'm using the wrong tool for the cutting task. JMHO

[Wartstein]

I don’t understand how folks can say that Japanese knives lack blade play. It has been quite noticeable on every one of the dozens that I have owned.

After reading this and a small part of Chad's explanation (before he edited) of how back locks have to have some play even if it can't be perceived I decided I needed to look closely at my Spyderco back locks. I checked over 25 knives (including several Japanese models) and most of them had no perceivable side-to-side or vertical play. But..I was checking by hand. I'd check side-to-side by gripping the blade near the tip and vertical by pulling up on the Spydie hole. I felt a very small wiggle on a few including a couple FRN dragonflies and two Calys. None had any play that was quite noticeable. Then I read Holland's comment about forcing some play when cutting through a cheese block (haha). Not having a cheese block handy I decided to use a hardwood block that I keep on my work bench. I pressed the blades straight down into the block and I could feel a tiny amount of vertical movement on most of the knives including a few of my Native 5 LWs. However, some knives I couldn't see or feel any movement. My Sage 4, various Natives, Chaps, and even some of my Delicas were surprisingly solid

A couple of thoughts that some may disagree with. I don't really consider a tiny, almost imperceivable, amount of lock rock to actually be blade play. The tang is forcing the lock bar to move. Also, if I have to lean on a knife hard enough to feel that tiny amount of lock rock either the blade is too dull or I'm using the wrong tool for the cutting task. JMHO

- Was this the long post containing pics where someone explained why backlocks have to have at least a tiny amount of play technically? I wanted to read it later, but when I found the time it was gone... ? Why? Would have really been interested..

- Yes, in most of my backlocks I can provoke a bit of vertical play / lock rock also only when I press down the blades on a hard surface (cutting board). Then it is there (more like lock rock), but nothing that bothers me at all. In theory though I can understand that some people might feel that a 100% solid lock feels like more quality, in practical use I can´t see though why this tiny amount of forced play should be an issue at all (but certainly respect if some just don´t like it).

- And again, whatever I do I just can´t feel or force any vertical movement in my Chap. As said many times already, this thing is not a delicate "office- / gents" knife at all, but a little tank with a lasercutter-blade... :)

[cabfrank]

I read it, and have no idea why it was deleted.

[Wartstein]

I read it, and have no idea why it was deleted.

It was actually deleted ? :confused:

[shunsui]

It doesnt matter to me. Mid backlock is still my favorite lock and there is never enough play to bother me. ... it is certainly good enough for my uses.

This sums up my experience.

I guess the Sebenzas made a name for themselves with the people who worry about this sort of thing. I prefer Enduras and Sirens.

[Brock O Lee]

I have 5x Native 5’s, 4 are rock solid, one has a tiny bit of play.

No play on the ti Chaparral.

2x Caly 3’s, Delica, Salt 1 have some play, but is acceptable.

1x Dragonfly and 1x Ladybug developed significant play over a short time.

[soc_monki]

It doesnt matter to me. Mid backlock is still my favorite lock and there is never enough play to bother me. ... it is certainly good enough for my uses.

This sums up my experience.

I guess the Sebenzas made a name for themselves with the people who worry about this sort of thing. I prefer Enduras and Sirens.

Even sebenzas have lock bar flex. It's inherent to the frame lock. As for backlock spydies, I have a Native Chief and I can't perceive any blade play. Solid as a rock!

[pantagana23]

I'm trying to understand where does the blade play, some of you talk of, comes from.



When you press the knife down, these are the forces that should come from pressing the blade on a hard surface.

The blade itself is pushing the lockbar, and trying to pop out the pivot at the same time.

Looking at the construction, it would be understandable that it would have some vertical play when you force it down, due to the construction, but I don't see where it could go up.