Lightest Weight Spydercos...?

[R100]

Manix 2 LW S110v is my choice but if you want super light my Salt 1 without its clip weighs 1.7 oz and feels noticeably lighter than my frn Chaparral.

1.7 oz is also lighter than the "blue butterfly logoed elephant in the room" and is also a better choice. The blue butterfly has its good points but I'm never comfortable carrying it without a backup because as soon as you put serious weight on the pivot by carving etc the pivot loosens, even with the dreaded red loctite. I think it must be lack of support around the pivot. Then there's the possibility of breaking an omega spring... My advice is Do Not Stray From The Path

[Blnd]

We all compromise somewhere, backpacking or otherwise. Where we find the balance will vary. “Enough” is a personal thing.

[BLUETYPEII]

Manix 2 LW s110v ca. 3 ounces...this knife will exceed your need in the best way possible.

This knife definitely comes to mind. I think it’s tuff enough for almost anything you’ll need a knife for, it has stellar edge retention and it’s extremely corrosion resistant.

However I think the new Pacific Salt (LC200N w/ green FRN) would be a wonderful choice as well. Especially if you want something that’s corrosion proof.

As far as edge retention on LC200N I think vivi’s assessment of the steel is quite accurate.

[aicolainen]

I'm a lot of different backpackers in one, and I'm always weight conscious and try to save weight where I can without running into significant compromise.

As far as I understand UL backpacking, it's just an overarching weight philosophy, and there are just as many sub-genres or reasons to backpack UL as you would have with more traditional equipment. Where the UL part is just a means to optimize for more comfort, more range, more activity specific equipment etc. In that regard I would say I dabble in the same universe of thinking. I'm very weight conscious, but maybe just not as OCD about it.
When I’m hunting in the mountains or I want to focus on photography, I want to keep base weight low to make room for the payload that will best support that activity, when long range hiking (or skiing) I want to keep the base weight down to allow for more consumables,
My point is, there are so many variables in backpacking beyond the UL part of it, that I find it hard to say a specific knife is suitable for backpacking just because it’s light.
You need to consider things like: What climate, what risks, what's my food supply, what gear might I need to maintain, what kind of knife will best support my primary/secondary activities? All these questions will play into what knife I choose to carry, and the answer often vary from trip to trip. As a knife nerd that's hardly a bad thing.

Knives that I remember bringing includes; Dfly, Salt, Pacific Salt, Siren, SAK Cadet, SAK Sportsman, BM Bugout and BM mini bugout.
If I don't anticipate any need for cutting, and just want to bring a sharp edge, it's usually the Dragonfly. As my predicted needs increases I'll opt for more capable, more flexible or more edge accordingly. The Siren is not UL by any standards, but it's not incredibly heavy either and it's very capable and can do almost anything. I have much anticipation for the new Pac Salt FFG SE LC200N which I think will be very suitable for many of the trips and conditions that attracts me, but however good it proves to be, it won't be the one and only.

I also want to add that beyond choosing a knife suitable for the application, safety is another important feature that I'm hesitant to sacrifice for marginal weight savings. And in the safety department there is a lot to be said for a mid backlock with a spydiehole. There’s simply nothing I’ve found as simple to safely manipulate under a variation of conditions. The self close bias adds to that, and some times I even appreciate the option to carry tip down if the circumstances are such that any type of injury might jeopardize health or the ability to complete the trip.

[sal]

Hi Aicolainen,

Thanx much for sharing.

I must say I'm constantly impressed wit the depth of knowledge and understanding that is discussed here.

sal

[Bolster]

I've been lurking the backpacking forums, and there's a school of thought that the ideal backpacking knife is a fixed blade, for the purpose of batoning, if needed. I've noticed that the Mules are around 2.8 oz; that's a little lighter (altho less comfortable) than the Manix LW, for about the same blade length. Of course the Mule would need a sheath or at least an edge protector.

aicolainen: 100% agree you pick the knife for the trip. You've seen the photo of the 3 knives I've targeted for my trips to date, just haven't settled on a lightweight 3" option yet, which I think is a sort of sweet-spot size. My rule of thumb has been: the more people on the trail, the less knife needed--won't be building fires; wildlife more scarce, survival scenarios rare due to ability to receive aid from another hiker. Of course, if the problem is a human animal, that's a bad rule of thumb; but trail folks in my experience are overwhelmingly gentle and friendly. Not many aggressive thugs on the trails; a bad place to go "shopping" for victims whose kit is probably worn and stinky anyway; and a fast getaway is out of the question.

[vivi]

Pacific Salt is my knife of choice for UL bike trips. 20lb bike + 8-10lbs gear depending on season.






For bike trips and hiking the even lighter full flat grind version makes this model even more attractive.

[BLUETYPEII]

One thing I want to add to this is...
I believe it’s an old military saying that goes something like

1 is none and 2 is 1

Meaning have a backup. Plan, knife flashlight ect. I’m not saying carry 4 of every item but, personally I always carry a fixed blade of some kind to pair with a folding knife when venturing out into the wilderness.

[tonijedi]

About the fixed blade: I'd love to see spyderco offer a 95mm fixed blade, almost full Tang, FRN, 2.5 mm - 3mm LC200N with a blade style similar to the Aqua Salt but FFG.
"The Explorer".

[sal]

Hi Toni,

We're working on a 4" (100mm) Enuff, 3mm leaf, which could serve well as a backpack knife.

sal

[Bolster]

I believe it’s an old military saying that goes something like 1 is none and 2 is 1

Agreed, for any mission-critical operation. Light/UL backpackers OTOH try to choose the bare minimum of lightweight but high quality items that won't fail, because ounces add up so quickly. My goal is a baseweight of 10 lbs and I'm currently at 11.8, so I have a long way to go, and I'm counting every ounce.

Yes, I've looked briefly at the <2 oz Bugout but have the same concern as a previous poster regards durability. On one trip I injured myself and had to fashion a staff out of found wood, and I was thankful I had a strong knife on that trip! I was carrying a "heavy" Caly 3.5 and it did the job of de-branching and smoothing the grip area.

The 3.1 oz , 2.8" blade Enuff is attractive. Is that full tang? However, for 2.8 oz, you can have the 3.5" blade of a Mule...

[tonijedi]

Hi Toni,

We're working on a 4" (100mm) Enuff, 3mm leaf, which could serve well as a backpack knife.

sal

Looking for it!
I talked about the Aqua Salt because I like the blade shape a lot.

[BLUETYPEII]

I believe it’s an old military saying that goes something like 1 is none and 2 is 1

Agreed, for any mission-critical operation. Light/UL backpackers OTOH try to choose the bare minimum of lightweight but high quality items that won't fail, because ounces add up so quickly. My goal is a baseweight of 10 lbs and I'm currently at 11.8, so I have a long way to go, and I'm counting every ounce.

Yes, I've looked briefly at the <2 oz Bugout but have the same concern as a previous poster regards durability. On one trip I injured myself and had to fashion a staff out of found wood, and I was thankful I had a strong knife on that trip! I was carrying a "heavy" Caly 3.5 and it did the job of de-branching and smoothing the grip area.

The 3.1 oz , 2.8" blade Enuff is attractive. Is that full tang? However, for 2.8 oz, you can have the 3.5" blade of a Mule...

You’re absolutely right about weight when hiking; if I was only going to carry one knife though it would be a fixed blade hands down because of durability and reliability. If you want to stick with Spyderco which I would recommend; check out the street beat. It’s light, corrosion resistant, easy to sharpen and holds a decent edge. I don’t own one but I’m seriously looking at getting one.

I carry a Waterway my self.

[aicolainen]

Hi Aicolainen,

Thanx much for sharing.

I must say I'm constantly impressed wit the depth of knowledge and understanding that is discussed here.

sal

Thank you for the kind words, Sal. Mind you I'm merely an amateur, so my opinions is just a data point amongst many.
I've been an amateur for a long time though, and still alive, so maybe that counts for something ;-)

I've been lurking the backpacking forums, and there's a school of thought that the ideal backpacking knife is a fixed blade, for the purpose of batoning, ...

It's hard to argue against the reliability of a fixed blade, add value to the mix and folders suddenly seems like the odd choice.
I would't rule them out on face value though. The things that attracts me to folders for hiking are how compact they carry when not in use (which is most of the time, especially for UL), that they are self-contained i.e. you're not dependent on another item (sheath) for safe carry, they are very flexible with regards to where and how you want to carry them (this is more important than you might think, anything that's slightly uncomfortable to begin with will be immensely so after a hundred miles or so in rough terrain) and in my experience they are safer for the most common taks. Working conditions in the field are often not optimal, and sheathing a knife every time you need to put it down is PITA and most people eventually take short cuts. A folder you can even hold safely in you're mouth once it's closed, if you want to make sure it won't get lost in the dark, in the snow ...or both.

Oh, and regarding batoning, in my experience that rarely happens unless it was in the plans from the beginning. And on UL-ish hikes? Never. You wouldn't plan on batoning with a folder, but you can do it in a pinch.

aicolainen: 100% agree you pick the knife for the trip. You've seen the photo of the 3 knives I've targeted for my trips to date, just haven't settled on a lightweight 3" option yet, which I think is a sort of sweet-spot size. My rule of thumb has been: the more people on the trail, the less knife needed--won't be building fires; wildlife more scarce, survival scenarios rare due to ability to receive aid from another hiker. Of course, if the problem is a human animal, that's a bad rule of thumb; but trail folks in my experience are overwhelmingly gentle and friendly. Not many aggressive thugs on the trails; a bad place to go "shopping" for victims whose kit is probably worn and stinky anyway; and a fast getaway is out of the question.

The most important factor for me when choosing a knife for a trip, is what I expect to eat. Other considerations can add to the equation, but that's like a minimum requirement. It has to be able to process the food I expect to eat.
Self defense has never been a consideration. We don't really have any dangerous wildlife in northern Europe, and if I see any people at all, there's like zero chance anyone would go through all that trouble just to do harm.

One thing I want to add to this is...
I believe it’s an old military saying that goes something like

1 is none and 2 is 1

Meaning have a backup. Plan, knife flashlight ect. I’m not saying carry 4 of every item but, personally I always carry a fixed blade of some kind to pair with a folding knife when venturing out into the wilderness.

This is where UL differs from most traditional philosophies.
The concept here is that speed and agility is a tool in itself, and every time you add a "just in case" item, you're compromising on your most important tool.
Being a traditional hiker for most of my life and having considerable military background, it's really hard to rewire the brain to this way of thinking.
Just as an example, last year on my last UL hike to date (or just super light is probably a better description) I walked one week in high altitude (the entire trip was over the tree-line). At this altitude in the autumn you really have to be prepared for all types of weather. Our plan was also very ambitious range wise, so we had to cover a lot of terrain every day. I forced my self to not carry more than I could fit in my 45L backpack, and that's really not a lot when you have to prepare for sub zero / sub 32F conditions. When it was time to select a knife, I chose the Victorinox Cadet. That was a very mentally challenging decision, but with what I could predict about the trip in advance I couldn't justify anything else. We where over the tree line, so there was obviously no trees to cut. We had to move fast, so excess weight and bulk wasn't an option. Besides there were a few emergency shelters along our route where we could restock on food, so the can opener on the Cadet could become useful (and it did) and the Cadet also has some other simple tools that could become useful if we encountered technical difficulties with our equipment (which we didn't).
The knife (and can opener) worked out beautifully, and it was a really interesting experience to challenge oneself mentally like that.

Hi Toni,

We're working on a 4" (100mm) Enuff, 3mm leaf, which could serve well as a backpack knife.

sal

This is most interesting

Yes, I've looked briefly at the <2 oz Bugout but have the same concern as a previous poster regards durability. On one trip I injured myself and had to fashion a staff out of found wood, and I was thankful I had a strong knife on that trip! I was carrying a "heavy" Caly 3.5 and it did the job of de-branching and smoothing the grip area.

The 3.1 oz , 2.8" blade Enuff is attractive. Is that full tang? However, for 2.8 oz, you can have the 3.5" blade of a Mule...

I'm not speaking from personal experience, but I think the Bugout is much more capable than its deceptively whimsy appearance leads you to believe. It survived Advanced Knife Bros batoning test without affecting the action in any noticeable way (the same treatment that was quite unfavorable to the lock bar on his Sebenza). In Cold Steels lock test it withstood an amazing load. Not as much as the Cold Steel knife it was compared to, but impressive nonetheless.
Dutch Bushcraft Knives torture tested another axis lock knife (the Freak, IIRC), also with no apparent effect on the knife.
I'm obviously not advocating this type of use or attributing the axis lock any superior performance, but just pointing out anecdotal evidence on what a less than optimal knife can do in a bad situation if it's really necessary. UL is all about balancing what you really need toward the extreme end. With knives we can really afford to not over spec. Worst case, choosing a Bugout over something like a Cold steel AD-10 might mean that you have to repair or replace your knife if running into something unexpected, whilst saving weight on your sleeping bag might have a much less desirable outcome.

[Bolster]

Excellent ^ post! Favorite line: "This is where UL differs from most traditional philosophies. The concept here is that speed and agility is a tool in itself, and every time you add a "just in case" item, you're compromising on your most important tool." This is why discussions of saving an ounce or two can span several pages of a forum thread! Before attempting UL, saving an ounce would have seemed silly...now it makes sense.

[Wartstein]

....

I also want to add that beyond choosing a knife suitable for the application, safety is another important feature that I'm hesitant to sacrifice for marginal weight savings. And in the safety department there is a lot to be said for a mid backlock with a spydiehole. There’s simply nothing I’ve found as simple to safely manipulate under a variation of conditions. The self close bias adds to that, and some times I even appreciate the option to carry tip down if the circumstances are such that any type of injury might jeopardize health or the ability to complete the trip.

Though this is not really on topic concerning the lightweight-question, your words are still very true imho and something to consider when bringing a knife, especially in the outdoors. Hard to beat the versatility, ease of operation and safety (both concerning the close bias and safety for the fingers when operating then lock).

And with Spyderco one now can have a strong mid backlock, a long blade/cutting edge and very low weight with the Pac Salt ffg.

[Halfneck]

I forced my self to not carry more than I could fit in my 45L backpack, and that's really not a lot when you have to prepare for sub zero / sub 32F conditions. When it was time to select a knife, I chose the Victorinox Cadet. That was a very mentally challenging decision, but with what I could predict about the trip in advance I couldn't justify anything else. We where over the tree line, so there was obviously no trees to cut. We had to move fast, so excess weight and bulk wasn't an option. Besides there were a few emergency shelters along our route where we could restock on food, so the can opener on the Cadet could become useful (and it did) and the Cadet also has some other simple tools that could become useful if we encountered technical difficulties with our equipment (which we didn't).
The knife (and can opener) worked out beautifully, and it was a really interesting experience to challenge oneself mentally like that.

Have you ever looked at the Victorinox Alox Lumberjack or the newer Walker? I would think the saw would be a great addition for this. I use to backpack quite a bit in my 20s and I carried a Victorinox Trekker. I found the saw useful for making a campfire and campsite set-up.

[carrot]

I think that some people might have the wrong opinion on how UL backpackers hike.

UL backpackers don't often make fires, so a knife is mostly a handy tool for FAK, packaging, food, and absolute last ditch firestarting and survival. A saw is extra weight. A fixed blade with sheath is extra weight. A can opener is usually even extra weight, because that can of tuna would have been opened and dehydrated and recycled before even setting foot out of the house.

A UL backpacker brings very little gear because what little gear is there is trusted, multi-purpose, and expected to work as intended. UL means more miles can be accomplished in a day and routes can be finished with less food and water because they take fewer days to do. UL cuts a lot of safety margins and relies on physical capability and deep technical experience plus a little bit of MacGuyver.

Before planning a meal, a UL backpacker might have considered whether they could have left some additional fuel behind by rehydrating a cold meal at noon and eating it cold at dinner. To save on even using additional water, a UL backpacke might have considered eating a tube of peanut butter and beef jerky. Before even considering knife-bushcraft, a UL backpacker is more likely to create a brush shelter or quinzee.

You wouldn't carry a spare tent just because your tent could fail. A knife is only a couple of ounces, but three knives is a pound, and pounds are heavy.

I did a trip at 18# total weight where 6.6# of that was water (3L). Another 2-3# was food. Every ounce counts! I am pretty sure I carried the skeletonized Izula on that trip, which was much more knife than necessary.

There is room in UL backpacking to have fun by a campfire, to hike short miles, to sightsee, but at the core of UL is: the less I carry, the further I can go, and am I willing to trade (personal, mental, physical) comfort for speed?

[z4vdBt]

I'm a lot of different backpackers in one, and I'm always weight conscious and try to save weight where I can without running into significant compromise.

As far as I understand UL backpacking, it's just an overarching weight philosophy, and there are just as many sub-genres or reasons to backpack UL as you would have with more traditional equipment....

Sorry for the thread drift - but what kind of light do you carry? A Pak-Lite maybe?

.

[aicolainen]

I'm a lot of different backpackers in one, and I'm always weight conscious and try to save weight where I can without running into significant compromise.

As far as I understand UL backpacking, it's just an overarching weight philosophy, and there are just as many sub-genres or reasons to backpack UL as you would have with more traditional equipment....

Sorry for the thread drift - but what kind of light do you carry? A Pak-Lite maybe?

.

quite the tangent, yes.
Light varies as well, actually. It's always a head lamp when backpacking though. If weight is my primary concern it's an older Petzl Tikka. I have a slightly heavier and more powerful Olight I use when I predict the additional power provides a benefit.
I'm actually, but quite passively, in search of a replacement for the Tikka. It serves me quite well, but if I can find a high CRI lightweight / ultra lightweight headlamp with decent performance and construction I'll be all over it. The outdoor segment of the light business seems to be very obsessed with lumens and runtimes, and with almost no one paying attention to the actual quality of the light produced.

In addition I have a very powerful lupine headlamp that I use for SAR and off-piste skiing/snowboarding in the dark. Not very relevant for the topic, but more to complete the picture. As I said in my first post, I do a lot of different things that all have in common that I end up finding myself in the backcountry quite often. Just a tiny percentage of that activity fits within the UL domain. With such a broad spectrum to cover, I can't always (for financial reasons) optimize my equipment for each specific activity, but find equipment that will have sufficient performance across a range of activities. I.e. you might be better off looking to others for advice on dedicated UL gear.