D2/K110 pros/cons in 2020?

[GarageBoy]

Spyderco has never warmed up to d2/k110, even in cpm form. Why is that? Is it because in 2020, other steels do the toothy high edge retention thing better for similar cost?

[Holland]

Spyderco uses CTS XHP in a lot of knives, which can be argued as an updraged version of D2

[VooDooChild]

They have also used psf27.

[Cambertree]

...Is it because in 2020, other steels do the toothy high edge retention thing better for similar cost?

Yes, I would think so.

The differences between some steel types used in Spydies could be said to be intended to appeal to different end user tastes and usages.

So while corrosion resistance is generally seen as a desirable quality in modern knives, some users will forgo stainlessness in favour of the benefits of tool steels.

In other cases, if you examine the qualities of a group of fairly closely related steels, a rational analysis based on testing would lead a maker to consistently favour one over another.

I’m only guessing, but I think CTS-XHP may be the reason why we don’t see CPM D2 used much.

This would also be why M390 and its analogues are consistently favoured over Elmax.

Or 4V being used over 3V, except in specific cases where 3Vs greater toughness is required for a particular design.

I think PSF27, the spray formed version of D2 was used in the Bradley Bowie and Junction because Gayle Bradley had been experimenting with it and reporting some interesting results at the time, and it suited those knife designs and intended uses. But I doubt that it or CPM D2 will ever be a regular steel choice in the lineup.

[bdblue]

D2 is not a bad steel, but it has been around a long time and is somewhat mundane by current standards. There seem to be a lot of modern steels that get related to D2, but OTOH just saying a steel is similar to D2 seems to kill interest in it.

Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. I have one knife remaining that is a different brand, and it happens to be D2. I don't notice it being at a big disadvantage in edgeholding.

[JohnDoe99]

Spyderco has never warmed up to d2/k110, even in cpm form. Why is that? Is it because in 2020, other steels do the toothy high edge retention thing better for similar cost?

"Latest and greatest" marketing trends.

[Pancake]

There is one question....why.
Why use D2, CPM D2 or PSF 27, when you can use CPM steels, that are more corrossion resitant, have the same or better toughness and more edge retention?

Look, I love some basic steels, like O1, but truth to be told, there are just overall BETTER steels in 2020 ....

[The Mastiff]

There is one question....why.
Why use D2, CPM D2 or PSF 27, when you can use CPM steels, that are more corrossion resitant, have the same or better toughness and more edge retention?

There is truth to this. They have been pretty good at getting out steels that we ask for within reason though. There have been several. The BG 42 millie was one of the first I recall. S30V was already in use but Sal got the ball rolling on that one just because we asked despite S30v being technically superior and already in the supply chain and much easier to source. Cruwear was another that came about from asking. I'd guess if there was enough interest they would give us a D2 knife.

I like D2 in some knives but I don't think it's much more than nostalgia for me. If I really want a knife now it will have something that really out performs D2. There are a bunch of steels in use that have higher toughness, wear and corrosion resistance all combined in one steel which IMO is the real advance in steel. It used to be the old saying you could only pick 2 out of three attributes. That may have been true then but not so much now.

joe

[standy99]

They have also used psf27.

Am liking PSF 27 in a fixed blade.

Think it’s a great steel and takes a edge quickly with a steel in between sharpening.

Junction is one of those little big knives (smaller knife that can do the job of a big knife if needed)

[Pancake]

I like D2 in some knives but I don't think it's much more than nostalgia for me. If I really want a knife now it will have something that really out performs D2. There are a bunch of steels in use that have higher toughness, wear and corrosion resistance all combined in one steel which IMO is the real advance in steel. It used to be the old saying you could only pick 2 out of three attributes. That may have been true then but not so much now.

joe

Very true.
There are going to be always people who are going to say that steels like D2, O1, 1095, 420HC are just good enough, because they were good 20-30 years ago.

Problem is, that we are living in 2020, and there are far more advanced steels that are overall better then these old (but good) steels. Well...not in beiing cheap, modern steels are more expensive, and most of time are harder to machine, but you get my point.

I guess with more then enough demand, Spyderco could make a sprint run of CPM-DM, or PSF27 in some more popular model, but i HIGHLY doubt, that it would be instant sell-out like 4V, Cru-Wear and so on...

[Albatross]

I could see potential for the budget line or the Byrd line, but beyond that, as others have said, it's outperformed by several steels, in all regards (except cost maybe).

If Spyderco developed a top quality HT for CPM D2, to maximize performance, it would catch my interest, but not my money. I would be very interested to see the differences between a high-powered HT and the current market standard D2 performance.

[JohnDoe99]

I like D2 in some knives but I don't think it's much more than nostalgia for me. If I really want a knife now it will have something that really out performs D2. There are a bunch of steels in use that have higher toughness, wear and corrosion resistance all combined in one steel which IMO is the real advance in steel. It used to be the old saying you could only pick 2 out of three attributes. That may have been true then but not so much now.

joe

Very true.
There are going to be always people who are going to say that steels like D2, O1, 1095, 420HC are just good enough, because they were good 20-30 years ago.

They're good enough because nothing has fundamentally changed with high carbide steels besides a shuffling of carbide type and a homogenization of their displacement in the steel, which was intended for industrial use. The dramatic difference is across steel types; 420hc vs V toku or Super Blue, V toku vs D2, D2 vs 420 HC. D2 vs Maxamet is just a degree of gradation. I doubt most people could tell a really high tempered D2 blade from Maxamet or some other high speed steel.

[The Mastiff]

They're good enough because nothing has fundamentally changed with high carbide steels besides a shuffling of carbide type and a homogenization of their displacement in the steel, which was intended for industrial use. The dramatic difference is across steel types; 420hc vs V toku or Super Blue, V toku vs D2, D2 vs 420 HC. D2 vs Maxamet is just a degree of gradation. I doubt most people could tell a really high tempered D2 blade from Maxamet or some other high speed steel.

I've heard the "most people couldn't tell" statement more than a few times. While I'm not going to answer for the non knife afi types I'd say most of us here on the forums can and do tell the difference. Anybody who sharpens regularly can tell. Most regular users can tell there is a large difference though telling Rex 45 from Maxamet in a blind test might be asking too much. I can tell 440c and D2 by the sound they make on my stones when hand reprofiling them. I guess it's a matter of experience or more probably what people are willing to take the time to learn and pay attention to. A lot of people here just don't care enough about that sort of thing enough to prioritize using their time to pay attention to such differences.

[dj moonbat]

I seem to recall that Sal’s huge Bowie knife was originally CPM D2 before going to CPM 154.

[standy99]

I like D2 in some knives but I don't think it's much more than nostalgia for me. If I really want a knife now it will have something that really out performs D2. There are a bunch of steels in use that have higher toughness, wear and corrosion resistance all combined in one steel which IMO is the real advance in steel. It used to be the old saying you could only pick 2 out of three attributes. That may have been true then but not so much now.

joe

Very true.
There are going to be always people who are going to say that steels like D2, O1, 1095, 420HC are just good enough, because they were good 20-30 years ago.

They're good enough because nothing has fundamentally changed with high carbide steels besides a shuffling of carbide type and a homogenization of their displacement in the steel, which was intended for industrial use. The dramatic difference is across steel types; 420hc vs V toku or Super Blue, V toku vs D2, D2 vs 420 HC. D2 vs Maxamet is just a degree of gradation. I doubt most people could tell a really high tempered D2 blade from Maxamet or some other high speed steel.

Do a lot of sharpening for people and being a ex butcher I can pick a steel quiet easy, probably not what type of steel but enough to say new or old steel. The newer fandangled steels definitely have their place in sharpness durability than say D2.
But all said and done there is not many steels you can’t get razor sharp.

As said above I can pick 440 usually with the first pass of a stone.

[GarageBoy]

Yeah, I figured Spyderco is a company that's always looking ahead, at least in steels; we all know many of their designs are timeless

I just wanted to try good non chinese d2, but at the prices that other companies charge for it, I might as well just get a dozier custom

[jdw]

I would take a Military in CPM D2 please.

[skeeg11]

Yeah, I figured Spyderco is a company that's always looking ahead, at least in steels; we all know many of their designs are timeless

I just wanted to try good non chinese d2, but at the prices that other companies charge for it, I might as well just get a dozier custom

Dozier's heat treat for D2 seems to be pretty good. Skinned and dressed a lot or critters with 'em. Really looking forward to Spyderco doing HHG like Dozier.

[sal]

Hey John,

Marketing trends of demand trends?

"Talkin' Story" I read a story long ago about a college that had remodeled the entire campus. when they were thinking of where to make the paths between the buildings, one in the group suggested that they just make it all lawn and see where the students choose to walk and make the paths there, which they did.

Spyderco enjoys offering the materials that in the world of edges are an interesting study.

sal

[vivi]

I'm not wild about D2. From what I've seen in my usage A2 has about the same level of edge holding with better toughness and edge stability. I always pass on D2 fixed blades in favor of other simple steels because it rates very low on toughness and my experience with it confirms that.

I will say D2 takes a very nice edge for me. Its more wear resistant than a lot of other old steels so it got a reputation for being stubborn, but I think it burrs a lot less than stuff like 1095 and 440C.

I'm a big fan of CPMD2. I carried a Military in that steel for years and would love to see them re-issue that same folder. Took an exceptional edge, was very tough even at thin angles, and held an edge for a while.