Several Questions

[-Kiku-]

Several questions to which I don't have very good answers. If you have the answer(s), please contribute. Thanks.

1. Is the blade of Spyderco's Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 made of 100% ZDP-189? I noticed that many of ZDP-189 knives (non-Spyderco brand) have ZDP-189 as a cutting core clad in a much softer stainless steel. I was wondering if this is also the case with Spyderco's Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189. If that's the case, I can find no mention of it anywhere in their catalog.

2. When I first inquired what the hole in the blade of my Dragonfly 2 was for, I was told that it was to assist with opening of the blade with a single hand. Then I noticed the same holes on all of Spyderco's fixed-blades. Fixed-blades don't need to be opened and that had me wondering the purpose of the "thumb-hole". Then I came across this:

Four holes on the blade for no apparent reason. Then it gets worse:

13 holes on P'KAL G-10 Red Trainer! That's 12 holes too many! Getting a little carried with those holes, Spyderco? What's their apparent obsession with holes? The knife, being a trainer, doesn't even have an edge. So a small folding knife, with lots of holes, and no edge. The price tag: $300 approx. Did I miss something?

3. What's the latest news on Spyderco's Proficient? Last I heard was about a new variant with G-10 and/or micarta handles instead of the usual carbon fiber version. But that was a few years ago...

[Pokey]

1) Yes, it is.

2) It is to aid in opening the blade, and I believe the Round Hole is a trademark. I’ll speculate with regards to the trainers: All the holes will structurally weaken the blade so if one trains too aggressively, it will bend and not penetrate.

3) I don’t know.

[Cl1ff]

The round hole is both used for one-handed opening and I believe doubles as a trademark.
(Though not all of their knives have them)
The holes in the trainers are for weight reduction as the blades are not ground to an edge. It’s important that the trainers and “live blades” have the same feel and balance in hand. They wouldn’t be as effective trainers otherwise, since much of self defense preparedness is about muscle memory.
As for the price on the trainers, they are made to the same specs and quality as the standard knives to ensure the closest possible mimicry of a real situation as well as reliable performance during use in practice. You train with the same top of the line equipment as what you play with in sports or skilled labor.
The same principal applies here.

[Cambertree]

To add to Pokey’s answers, I’d always assumed the holes in the trainer blades were to aid instant visual identification, so as to prevent mixups with ‘live’ blades.

But I don’t really know anything about MBC, so I could be wrong.

[The Deacon]

To add to Pokey’s answers, I’d always assumed the holes in the trainer blades were to aid instant visual identification, so as to prevent mixups with ‘live’ blades.

But I don’t really know anything about MBC, so I could be wrong.

I'd add that they may also be there to keep the trainer's blade weights and balance as close as possible to that of their repective live blade versions since they're just flat slabs of steel.

[bearfacedkiller]

1)Yup, solid ZDP. The clad ZDP knives are made by a different maker.

2) Yup, I agree with Paul. The trainers have all those holes so that the final blade weight is the same as a knife with bevels on it. Also, despite not having an edge a trainer probably costs almost as much to make as a live blade. Trainers are also probably a low volume seller.

3) All good things take time.

[Evil D]

1. Yes it's solid, one of the few solid ZDP options. The ZDP Ladybug is solid as well.

2. It's a thumb hole as well as a trade mark. I believe there was some clause in the trade mark that requires them to use the hole on all of their knives (though don't quote me on that, I seem to remember it mentioned here years ago). The red knife is a trainer, and while I don't know for certain what the purpose of the holes are, I assume that 1) they make it more obvious to those participating in training that it is indeed a "safe knife", and 2) the holes help to balance weight and make the blade closer to the mass that a production blade would be, since the blade has no grind to it and would weigh significantly more than a production blade without those holes. Cost probably has to do with being ultra low volume/production and likely being bought by professionals as opposed to hobbyists. I'm sure they're also quite collectible.

3. No idea.

[carrot]

The answer is Sal & co just love holes. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Also, spiders love holes. But insects creep me out, so I'm not gonna post a pic of that.

[VooDooChild]

Can the holes in the trainers also prevent you from turning it into a live blade?

[carrot]

Can the holes in the trainers also prevent you from turning it into a live blade?

Not being heat-treated probably prevents you from turning it into a good edge.

[standy99]

I wish you got the holes with the knife.

Each one laser etched with a Spyderco spider.

[Robbob]

All the holes in the trainers are to account for lack of bevels, which would normally shed some weight compared to a plain slab of steel. You can see the method used in fixed blades where extra holes are drilled out in the tang to account for the bevels as well as any scales that may be added. It's all about balance.

[Cl1ff]

To add to Pokey’s answers, I’d always assumed the holes in the trainer blades were to aid instant visual identification, so as to prevent mixups with ‘live’ blades.

But I don’t really know anything about MBC, so I could be wrong.

I hadn’t recalled the visual aspect of this while writing my earlier reply! I do think that is why the knives are red, to aid in easy identification or differentiation from non-trainers.
It was originally intended as a theme specific to trainers if my memory serves from reading the forum?

[sal]

Hi Kiku,

1. was answered

2. Weight reduction to be the same as the "live" blade. Also, trainers were originally all made with red handles so they are easily identified. Then customers were repeatedly asking for red knives with "live" blades so we honored their requests and made some red live knives.

3. We just got a quote back from the maker for a Curwear Proficient with Micarta handles. The price was not much lower than the S90V version. Sine the request was for a lower cost, we opted not to go forward. The majority of the cost is in the machining of the handle.

sal

[Dazen]

Hi Kiku,

1. was answered

2. Weight reduction to be the same as the "live" blade. Also, trainers were originally all made with red handles so they are easily identified. Then customers were repeatedly asking for red knives with "live" blades so we honored their requests and made some red live knives.

3. We just got a quote back from the maker for a Curwear Proficient with Micarta handles. The price was not much lower than the S90V version. Sine the request was for a lower cost, we opted not to go forward. The majority of the cost is in the machining of the handle.

sal

Noooooooooo! Say it ain’t so! How about a run of 1, for me?! :D

[Cambertree]

I'd add that they may also be there to keep the trainer's blade weights and balance as close as possible to that of their repective live blade versions since they're just flat slabs of steel.

I hadn’t recalled the visual aspect of this while writing my earlier reply! I do think that is why the knives are red, to aid in easy identification or differentiation from non-trainers.
It was originally intended as a theme specific to trainers if my memory serves from reading the forum?

Thanks Paul and Cl1ff - and Sal. I learned something new. :)