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Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:53 pm
by sal
We've noticed a significant trend in the interest of the Wharncliffe blade shape in the past 10-15 years. In looking at the blade from strictly a functional point of view. No points given to appearance. Your thoughts are always invited.

The first advantage is that the cutting edge is consistent in it's force against the material being cut from the heel to the tip. As opposed to a blade shape with a "belly" that reduced the force (angle of attack) that changes towards the tip. Cutting materials like rope, the straight edge will prevent the rope from "rolling" off the blade.

The second advantage is easier sharpening on a plain edge using traditional stones. Even serrated edges are easier with a tool like the Sharpmaker.

The third is a very effective tip for piercing due to a very acute angled tip. Another function of the tip, demonstrated by our own Jazz, that starting a cut with the tip requires less wrist twisting than a tip above the plain of the edge.

A fourth is that when the Wharncliffe blade is pushed through the material being cut, the spine of the blade continues to push the cutting edge further into the cut enlarging the cut.

There are probably others that will come up in this discussion. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that if I go back about 20 years, I believe this trend was started by our own Michael Janich. Mike and I go back many years and we're shared many thoughts about edge performance. Mike's own thoughts were the result of many tests from his well known "Pork man" A large piece of meat with a bone in the center and layers of Saran wrap around it to simulate ... to real world testing on many materials.

Mike did his testing in the search for truth. (Something most of us here also value) He was trying to learn if his thinking about the effectiveness was true. His tests really opened up a lot of eyes. He even pissed off some because his results pushed back on some thinking and some marketing hype.

Mike's preferred grind is a high hollow on the front side and a full flat on the back side which makes for a really thin edge making a great slicer. I didn't want to do that back then (couple of decades) because I didn't think the market was ready for it. Mike and I agreed to full flat. (Though now, I don't think I would be opposed to a special run of Mike's grind.

So, with that bit of info. What do you think? (Mike can correct my errors).

sal

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:07 pm
by Spydergirl88
Are we talking the blade thickness of the Yojimbo or something thinner?

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:15 pm
by Sumdumguy
I love a flat edge on smaller knives, especially. A high hollow/ffg hybrid sounds very interesting.

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:17 pm
by Mushroom
Seems like yet another example of how Spyderco is always at the forefront of cutlery innovation. :spyder:

The concept reminds me of the Double Bevel with the grind locations switched. I think it would be really cool to see on a Yojimbo 2 and I always like seeing special runs from Spyderco!

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:17 pm
by p_atrick
I like the idea of taking tried and true models and enhancing their performance through new and different grinds. If Spyderco is up for experimenting, I think it would be a hit with the AFI crowd.

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:26 pm
by koenigsegg
Hollow grind is fine depending on the blade thickness. I think the old Native hollow was good. If you can get it thinner like the Watu I'd be down. The Watu is basically a super thin blade wharn and it's amazing to cut with. Can barely feel it even cut plastic it just falls through it.

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:01 pm
by jkurtz7
I’d buy a blade ground like that as long as it’s thin.

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:03 pm
by Wartstein
Full flat on one and high hollow on the other side of the blade sounds very interesting and I´d love to try this!

But, Sal, are you thinking of still having a V edge then or would this be a chisel grind? (So the full flat side would go all the way down to the apex without a secondary bevel, and just the hollow grind side would have one)

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:15 pm
by Albatross
A Delica Wharncliffe wasn't my introduction to the Wharncliffe shape, but it was the first that was attached to a knife I liked and used frequently.

Mike's preferred grind sounds interesting for sure. It's something I would like to see and try. If I'm understanding it correctly, the grind is part hollow, part chisel?

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:19 pm
by Mushroom
Wartstein wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:03 pm
Full flat one and high hollow on the other side of the blade sounds very interesting and I´d love to try this!

But, Sal, are you thinking of still having a V edge then or would this be a chisel grind? (So the full flat side would go all the way down to the apex without a secondary bevel, and just the hollow grind side would have one)
Well, this is interesting. I guess I was misunderstanding what Sal meant because I had not even considered different grinds on each side of the blade. Initially, I interpreted the concept as having a high hollow grind at the tip ("front") of the blade and a full flat grind closer the handle (or the "back").

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:44 pm
by ladybug93
i prefer something like the sheepsfoot caribbean, manix 2, or even the pac salt, where the tip is somewhat low and the edge is mostly straight with just a slight belly. wharncliffe blades look cool and are very functional, especially in a small blade, but i prefer just a little sweep to the blade.

edited to add:
i think that compound grind sounds weird and maybe won't be super popular until a few years down the line when someone makes a 40 page campaign thread begging for it to come back. i've seen grinds like that on other knives and liked them, but i'm having a hard time picturing it on something like a yojimbo. if anyone can pull off weird though, it's spyderco.

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:08 pm
by sal
Hi Jkurtz,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:25 pm
by Naperville
I have 4 Wharncliffe knives, 3 of them Spyderco. I like them. I have been meaning to get a YoJumbo, but haven't had the funds available quite yet. I've been buying vape juice and donating to political campaigns whatever little money I've had....but the YoJumbo is MINE. I'll soon have the funds.

The lone standout that I have which is not a Spyderco, is a 4 inch, Hinderer XM-24 Wharncliffe in M390. The blade shape is quite different than the Spydercos. KnifeNews has announced several Wharncliffe blades over the last month or so. I like the Hinderer style as it is more useful for thrusts.

I like the hollow grinds, it really makes it a slicer!

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:44 pm
by Dazen
A Yojimbo with a high hollow on the front side and a full flat on the back side would be awesome. Better yet, have it be the first Yojimbo to come in that grind and SE!

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:47 pm
by Sharp Guy
I do enjoy using a good Wharnie. My Delica Wharncliffe gets used a work at least once a week. I'm still hoping for a K390 version. I've been carrying my Swayback on weekends a lot too. I'll pick up a Manbug Wharncliffe as soon as they become available. Rockjumper is on my radar too. Spyderco's been killing it with the Wharnies lately!

This new blade grind Sal's proposing sounds cool!

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:33 pm
by jkurtz7
Thank you, Sal.

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:44 pm
by standy99
I only like the Delica shape of a wharncliffe and find the Yojimbo profile too aggressive.
Just a personal preference.

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:21 pm
by bbturbodad
Yes!!!

With a few exceptions I've only been buying Wharncliffe blades lately. They work better for most of my uses and are a breeze to sharpen. Thin blade stock is good but ground thin BTE is even better.

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:28 pm
by skeeg11
Hi Sal---

I really look forward to threads like this where functional beauty is at the forefront of discussion.

In general, it seems to me that appreciation for a well executed high hollow grind has waned over the past decade or two. I really like the way they slice through flesh. Less drag. Over the years, my Doziers have served me very well in the field.

I do appreciate the constant pressure of the cut that the straight edge of a Wharnie applies for many applications. In SE it may in fact cover a broader specturum useful applications than a SE Hawkbill for my day to day stuff. It seems like most Spyderco Wharnies have a high humpback spine similar to that of a hawkbill. If you're in the habit of extending your forefinger along the spine, I can see where this could be quite comfortable; however, for my uses and purposes, it takes up valuable pocket real estate, inhibits penetration, is a waste of precious metal to say nothing of the additional weight. YMMV. I really do like Evil_D's modified Sheepsfoot Caribbean a lot. Perhaps you and he could get together and discuss his Sheep/Cliff design/profile.

For precision cuts, I would be very much interested in a knife with a high hollow on the off side with FFG on the presentation side.

Very much looking forward to others weighing in on design attributes.

Re: Wharncliffe's

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:30 pm
by PeaceInOurTime
Love wharncliffes! Probably my favorite blade shape.

Just for clarity, are you describing a grind similar to this?

Image

(Picture from Miltner-Adams)