Wharncliffe's

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
JRinFL
Member
Posts: 1178
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Unfashionable West End of the Galaxy

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby JRinFL » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:52 pm

Doc Dan wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:49 am
It is flat across the bottom, no belly on any of mine. It is a modified wharncliffe.

The wharncliffe is one of my most used blades cleaning squirrels and rabbits. It takes the feet, tail, and head off nicely. It is not great for skinning and gutting though. I like the wharcliffe for certain carving chores, too. It also makes a great exacto substitute.
Design change or did you sharpen the belly out? Kershaw https://kershaw.kaiusa.com/leek.html claims the blade to be a drop point and the picture shows a slight belly. At least on the current models.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.

User avatar
Woodpuppy
Member
Posts: 2294
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:38 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby Woodpuppy » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:12 pm

I have a Leek, it is a useful blade shape; but I find the stainless steel handle too slick. And the handle overall too small.
:spyder: My other blade is a Kelly Perfect :spyder:

User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 10046
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby Doc Dan » Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:40 pm

Yes, the handle is too slick, but we are talking wharncliffe blades. I like the blade design. There are some other Wharncliffe designs that I like, too. I like the shape of the We knife 705, but not the weird extra grinds. The Spyderco Swayback has a pretty awesome blade, too.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)


https://www.facebook.com/fallplanet Author page

NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

skeeg11
Member
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:45 pm

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby skeeg11 » Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:37 am

Michael Janich wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:56 am
With regard to "handedness," the deep hollow/flat combination does have a bias toward one hand. The original Ronin I designed for Snody was ground on the reverse side for righties. Most commercial chisel-ground knives that are not Japanese kitchen knives are ground on the obverse side so they "look right" in advertising.

Serrations are, by nature, a secondary chisel edge and also define handedness. The advantage of the deep hollow over a saber grind or flat is you can achieve a thinner behind-the-edge thickness and maintain it further up the blade. That mitigates the effect of the "handedness" issue.

Stay safe,

Mike
Hi Mike---

Appreciate your POV regarding primary and secondary chisel edge handedness.

Here's a whacky question for you:

If you have a chisel grind with one side having a high hollow which may induce mild steerage handedness, would putting serrations on the FFG side counteract some of the steerage handedness issues or make it the worst of both worlds? Of course that would make it no longer a chisel grind. Just wondering out loud here, but would appreciate your perspective.

Michael Janich
Member
Posts: 1738
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Longmont, CO USA
Contact:

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby Michael Janich » Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:14 am

Hey, Skeeg11:

That's an interesting idea. Ultimately the terminal cutting bevel of a serration creates its own "steerage," no matter which side it's on, so I don't think grinding it on the flat side would change things much--especially if the other side is properly ground as a high hollow.

Thinking about it more, the idea of combining serrations with a chisel grind with a high hollow would still require greater behind-the-edge thickness to support the structure of the serrations. That somewhat negates the benefits of the high hollow. I think it would have to be a careful balancing act.

Stay safe,

Mike

skeeg11
Member
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:45 pm

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby skeeg11 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:24 am

Thanks Mike. Appreciate your thoughts.

User avatar
araneae
Member
Posts: 5073
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:10 pm
Location: A lil more south of the Erie shore, Ohio

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby araneae » Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:50 pm

Doc Dan wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:49 am
It is flat across the bottom, no belly on any of mine. It is a modified wharncliffe.
My Leek definitely has a slight belly. Put your blade on a flat surface, mine only touches in the middle. I would not call that a Wharncliffe. If you put modified in front of the blade shape, it basically means it's "not a (insert blade shape) but has some resemblance". That, I suppose qualifies as a descriptor of the Leek, as would modified drop point.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
-Nick

Just got: SpyOpera, Siren

The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 10046
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby Doc Dan » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:36 pm

araneae wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:50 pm
Doc Dan wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:49 am
It is flat across the bottom, no belly on any of mine. It is a modified wharncliffe.
My Leek definitely has a slight belly. Put your blade on a flat surface, mine only touches in the middle. I would not call that a Wharncliffe. If you put modified in front of the blade shape, it basically means it's "not a (insert blade shape) but has some resemblance". That, I suppose qualifies as a descriptor of the Leek, as would modified drop point.
I got out a couple. The one I carried the most, a combo edge, is definitely flat. The other has a slight curve towards the tip. I see where our discrepancies are.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)


https://www.facebook.com/fallplanet Author page

NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

speedseeker
Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:20 pm

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby speedseeker » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:42 am

I'd certainly be interested in anything Wharnie. Though, and I think Jazz has mentioned this in the past, 3.5 inches and under is ideal to me as it allows me to crawl/choke up on the blade and use the tip super effectively. Longer than that is difficult to take advantage of one of the more prominant advantages of the Wharnie...its acute tip. AS far as the unique frind described by Sal, absolutely, sounds interesting and I wold give it a try.

User avatar
RamZar
Member
Posts: 1828
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:44 am
Location: SoCal, USA

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby RamZar » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:47 pm

Wharncliffe, Sheepsfoot and Reverse Tanto are my favorite EDC blades. I prefer Reverse Tanto most for its stout tip. Sheepsfoot is great for tip safety (my keychain knife is a ManBug Salt Sheepsfoot SpyderEdge). Wharncliffe is great for sharp pointy tip.

I found this article about the history of Wharncliffe blades (first Lord of Wharncliffe — James Archibald Stuart-Wortley-Mackenzie — was having dinner with his relative Archdeacon Corbett in Great Britain), tactical applications of Wharncliffe by Michael Janich and the various related blade shapes.

https://blog.knife-depot.com/history-of ... ffe-blade/
  • I welcome dialog, as long as it remains cordial, constructive and is conducted in a civilized manner. - Titanic: Blood & Steel
  • You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. - Abraham Lincoln

prndltech
Member
Posts: 1483
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:53 am
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby prndltech » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:21 pm

Woodpuppy wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:12 pm
I have a Leek, it is a useful blade shape; but I find the stainless steel handle too slick. And the handle overall too small.
Man, being in the automotive industry, many guys I worked with over the years used and abused leeks. It’s truly astounding. I wish I had pictures of them all.
- Shannon

User avatar
Woodpuppy
Member
Posts: 2294
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:38 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby Woodpuppy » Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:15 pm

prndltech wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:21 pm
Woodpuppy wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:12 pm
I have a Leek, it is a useful blade shape; but I find the stainless steel handle too slick. And the handle overall too small.
Man, being in the automotive industry, many guys I worked with over the years used and abused leeks. It’s truly astounding. I wish I had pictures of them all.
Many busted blades? Or did they hold up?
:spyder: My other blade is a Kelly Perfect :spyder:

User avatar
RamZar
Member
Posts: 1828
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:44 am
Location: SoCal, USA

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby RamZar » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:12 am

Woodpuppy wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:12 pm
I have a Leek, it is a useful blade shape; but I find the stainless steel handle too slick. And the handle overall too small.

Part of the smallness of the steel handle on the Leek is due to how slim it is at just a third of an inch thick! There was one of the better Leek folders with S30V and G-10 (still under $100 when available). Lots to like but the assisted opening I disliked.
Last edited by RamZar on Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
  • I welcome dialog, as long as it remains cordial, constructive and is conducted in a civilized manner. - Titanic: Blood & Steel
  • You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. - Abraham Lincoln

User avatar
Woodpuppy
Member
Posts: 2294
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:38 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby Woodpuppy » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:40 am

I hadn’t seen that one. I’ve thought about putting traction tape on the smooth side, but I don’t use the knife often; mine has unimpressive mystery steel. Certainly no match for Spyderco!
:spyder: My other blade is a Kelly Perfect :spyder:

User avatar
RamZar
Member
Posts: 1828
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:44 am
Location: SoCal, USA

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby RamZar » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:14 am

Woodpuppy wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:40 am
I hadn’t seen that one. I’ve thought about putting traction tape on the smooth side, but I don’t use the knife often; mine has unimpressive mystery steel. Certainly no match for Spyderco!

There were a couple of Leek folders with S30V/G-10 but that was a while back. Most have slippery stainless steel handles with blade steels of Swedish 14C28N steel or composites of 14C28N/D2. All well under $100 and made in the USA. The more expensive ones have CPM-S30V and CPM-154 blade steel.

Ken Onion was the designer of the Leek and he has some great designs.
  • I welcome dialog, as long as it remains cordial, constructive and is conducted in a civilized manner. - Titanic: Blood & Steel
  • You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. - Abraham Lincoln

Michael Janich
Member
Posts: 1738
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Longmont, CO USA
Contact:

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby Michael Janich » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:06 am

Hey, All:

As a little bit of history, "reverse tanto" is a recent, and, in my opinion, completely unnecessary addition to blade-shape terminology. If you look back to classic pocketknife blade shapes, their names covered all the possible variations of the point styles pretty thoroughly. In fact, the article RamZar cited on Knife Depot's blog acknowledged the subtle, but well established, differences between Wharncliffe, sheepfoot, lambfoot, coping, etc.

Before Bob Lum's custom-made tantos, a tanto was only the traditional Japanese expression of that style, which had a curved edge near the point and had to have a tsuba (disk-shaped guard, like a katana). Without a tsuba, that same style of knife would properly be called an aikuchi. Bob Lum was the first to put a faceted katana-style kissaki (point) on his modern interpretation of the tanto. Cold Steel took Lum's idea and ran with it to create their now iconic modern tanto.

Now, most people think an "Americanized tanto," as it's sometimes called, is what a tanto is supposed to be and the understanding of the real history behind it is fading. While "reverse tanto" sounds cooler than "lambfoot" or "coping," in reality, that blade shape already had a name. We just need to look deep enough into well-established knife history to identify it.

I don't mean to sound like a crusty old guy, but knives have a deep history and tradition. While I am all for innovation and I do not believe that "everything has already been done," ignoring established history is not innovation. If someone points to the letter "W" and calls it a "reverse M," they haven't invented anything...

Stay safe,

Mike

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 22327
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby Evil D » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:19 am

Michael Janich wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:06 am
Hey, All:

As a little bit of history, "reverse tanto" is a recent.....


Stay safe,

Mike



I've been thinking about a REAL reverse tanto for some time...where the angled slope of the tip of the blade stays the same thickness as the spine, and the blade grind that blends into that thicker chisel grind you see on tantos. I've never seen a wharnie with a tanto tip but I'm sure it can be done, seems like an untapped idea that could be useful for utility and self defense since the tip would be far less likely to break or chip.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

prndltech
Member
Posts: 1483
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:53 am
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby prndltech » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:26 am

Woodpuppy wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:15 pm
prndltech wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:21 pm
Woodpuppy wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:12 pm
I have a Leek, it is a useful blade shape; but I find the stainless steel handle too slick. And the handle overall too small.
Man, being in the automotive industry, many guys I worked with over the years used and abused leeks. It’s truly astounding. I wish I had pictures of them all.
Many busted blades? Or did they hold up?
Maybe some crudely regrind tips... but ultimately they took all of it year after year and kept going! I had one before I really got into knives as well. The tool guys used to sell kershaw blades, so it was/is very common to see them in shops. Most guys love the assisted opening, I’m indifferent on it if I’m I’m honest. But I haven’t carried a CAI knife in years because I found this cool company with holes on the blade.
- Shannon

User avatar
RamZar
Member
Posts: 1828
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:44 am
Location: SoCal, USA

Re: Wharncliffe's

Postby RamZar » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:57 am

Michael Janich wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:06 am
As a little bit of history, "reverse tanto" is a recent, and, in my opinion, completely unnecessary addition to blade-shape terminology. While "reverse tanto" sounds cooler than "lambsfoot" or "coping," in reality, that blade shape already had a name. We just need to look deep enough into well-established knife history to identify it.

I think the Benchmade 940 popularized “reverse tanto” for better or worse. It’s part of the lexicon of blade shapes now. Is the tip of a reverse tanto any more stout than lambsfoot/coping? I don’t know. Perhaps they’re the same. Prior to said article I had not heard of lambsfoot/coping since my knife age is not as old as my real age.

My first Wharncliffe was a Beretta JKTRID85 Trident folder (VG-10 , Cocobolo, Liner Lock, Seki Japan). Very classic Wharnie from around 2000 or so. Then, in 2005, it was Benchmade 940 Reverse Tanto and shortly thereafter Benchmade Snody 425 Gravitator.

Image
Image
  • I welcome dialog, as long as it remains cordial, constructive and is conducted in a civilized manner. - Titanic: Blood & Steel
  • You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. - Abraham Lincoln


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], JD Spydo, koenigsegg, Majestic-12 [Bot], p_atrick, ThrottleCable and 50 guests