Sal; will we ever see...

[weeping minora]

...The Jazz Wharncliffe Delica in K390 and ZDP-189 and the Endela in ZDP as available options? Been really interested in these steels and I'm teetering on placing a pre-order for the Endela in K390. Admittedly, I'm not a huge high wear resistant steel proponent and I've never owned anything in either steel, but I'm getting the itch to try steels that need a bit less daily/weekly sharpening maintenance within the Seki line-up. For reference I've owned and used M390, Cruwear and HAP40 from Seki and I'm looking for more extreme capabilities to delve into.

Is the lack of variations of the Delica WC due to pending approval by Jazz? As far as I can remember the only exclusive D4WC was the S30V CS exclusive 3-4 years ago. Lack of sales for either model? Lack of interest in ZDP?

The standard VG-10 D4WC has kicked everything out of my pocket for the past nearly 2-3 years after getting one. Nothing gets to stay for more than a honeymoon before returning to my beloved :). Huge horsepower in such a compact package, I think it epitomizes the entirety of Spyderco in that singular model; Reliable High Performance. Truly a perfect knife. I want to give the Endela a second chance as well, being a bit beefier overall. So, what the deal is :cool:?

On a side note; with the addition of Sal's makers' mark on the newer run Delica's, will we see a mash-up of a SAL and JAZZ mark for the WC in the future?!

[Bemo]

I would love to see anything in a Wharnie Delica. I'm absolutely loving my HAP40 version and have aftermarket scales coming. K390 would be awesome.

[vivi]

I think anyone here that doesn't require stainless steel level corrosion resistance will love K390.

- It holds an edge better than any steel I have personally tested
- Despite that I find it easy to sharpen whether using diamonds or Spyderco ceramics
- Its tough enough to have never chipped or rolled for me, despite using my Police 4 with a thinned out edge for mild batoning, chopping and general bushcrafty use
- It is more corrosion resistant than almost any other "carbon steel" I've used, such as 1085, 1095, O1, S7, Super Blue and others. It isn't quite to D2 levels here but its much less maintenance intensive than 1095.

It really is a super steel. I'm usually not that worried about edge holding but its remarkable how well the apex holds true compared to VG10. I've been comparing my K390 and VG10 Police 4's and K390 deforms so much less at the apex, leading to increased edge longevity. I say that as someone 100% happy with VG10 for an EDC. It is head and shoulders above that steel when it comes to edge retention.

[ZrowsN1s]

Wharn Delicas did get some Salt Love, but could use more. One of my fav work knives.

[archangel]

K390 is on the rise, while ZDP-189 is pretty much done. Maybe it will be used in a sprint of an exotic model, but I wouldn't count on the Endela or Delica for that.

[Cambertree]

My recollection is that Sal did confirm that the Jazzlica would be included in the K390 Seki series. I could be wrong though.

It would be great if the Wharny Dragonfly got the K390 treatment eventually.

ZDP189 is an outstanding steel, in my opinion. In Larrin’s edge retention testing of 48 knife steels it rated about the same as K390.

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/ ... fe-steels/

I guess sales will determine the future use of ZDP189 in sprints. I don’t think the G10 ZDP189 Stretch 2 sold that well, but that may also have been down to the high price of Seki G10 models in general.

We’re starting to see some Seki S90V at the moment, but in some respects ZDP189 still has some advantages over that steel.

[Hopweaver]

...the return of the Dodo!

[sal]

Hi Minora,

Both Delica WC and Endela will see K390.

sal

[carrot]

The Jazzlica in either K390 or ZDP-189 would be fab. I'm absolutely loving the K390 Delica right now. The steel is just so nice, takes a great edge and holds it.

[steelcity16]

Hi Minora,

Both Delica WC and Enmdela will see K390.

sal

Good to hear. What about the Straight Spine Stretch? Can you give any hints on the plans for that one? Cruwear like the upcoming XL version?? :eek:

[cycleguy]

Has a Wharncliffe Delica Damascus been done before??? Can Damascus happen with premium steels or is it limited to VG10???

CG

[JMM]

My recollection is that Sal did confirm that the Jazzlica would be included in the K390 Seki series. I could be wrong though.

It would be great if the Wharny Dragonfly got the K390 treatment eventually.

ZDP189 is an outstanding steel, in my opinion. In Larrin’s edge retention testing of 48 knife steels it rated about the same as K390.

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/ ... fe-steels/

I guess sales will determine the future use of ZDP189 in sprints. I don’t think the G10 ZDP189 Stretch 2 sold that well, but that may also have been down to the high price of Seki G10 models in general.

We’re starting to see some Seki S90V at the moment, but in some respects ZDP189 still has some advantages over that steel.

Can you clarify for me... What are we seeing from Seki in S90V, and in what ways is ZDP189 superior to S90V?

[Cambertree]

Can you clarify for me... What are we seeing from Seki in S90V, and in what ways is ZDP189 superior to S90V?

Sure thing. :)

We recently had a Delica exclusive for Knifeworks which was in S90V. It seemed to sell well too, which bodes well for future use of the steel in Seki exclusives or sprints.

I’m quite familiar with ZDP189 and use it a lot, whereas I only have the Southfork in S90V, so keep that in mind regarding my opinions.

S90V seems to like an ‘aggressive’ edge in the 400-600 grit range, finished with a very light touch on diamond abrasives.

ZDP189 works well with both polished, refined edges, and coarser finishes. It sharpens relatively easily on the more common alumina based abrasives, like ceramics, synthetic Japanese waterstones, Norton Indias, etc. It does fine on diamond abrasives as well, of course. So you could say it responds better than S90V to a wider range of sharpening media.

One thing which is not often mentioned about ZDP189 is the way it takes a high polish fairly easily. Although it is really a kind of ‘semi stainless’ like D2, giving it a higher polish on the blade flats does help with practical corrosion resistance.

Because of the difficulty in machining high vanadium steels like S90V, they seem to be left at a coarser finish, with belt grinding striations, which you can feel when running your fingertip along the blade flats. This seems to allow water and fluid to sit in the striations and cause orange spotting if the blade is not carefully dried after use, despite technically being more stainless than ZDP189.

ZDP189 has a very high volume (30%+) of chromium carbide in a fairly hard matrix, and seems to take a fine edge quite easily in my experience.

S90V has harder vanadium carbides, and vanadium enriched chromium carbides in a matrix run at around 60-61 in Spyderco knives.

So, some of these differences in use and sharpening can be down to a matter of taste, and sharpening skill, and also the abrasives available to the user.

I’m not saying one is ‘better’ than the other - I like using both steels a lot.

I’m just saying that ZDP189 is certainly not ‘outdated’ or superseded by the latest flavour of the month ‘super stainless’, in my opinion.

It still offers greater edge retention than the M390 analogues, is relatively easy to sharpen and touch up on most common abrasives, and when taken to a high polish still behaves for all practical corrosion resistance purposes like most other high carbon stainlesses, in my experience, given some basic care and maintenance.