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Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:39 pm
by Doc Dan
Image

Holy cow! This knife is a home run. This is the sharpest out of the box knife I have ever seen. Not only will it top hairs, it will actually whittle them. Wow.

The color is very dark, darker than the pictures on knifeworks’ website, but it is green and not black, thankfully. The fit and finish are the best I’ve seen on a Delica. Even the lock bar is flush.

Way to go Spyderco!

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:02 am
by vivi
Is it your first 204P knife? It's a very, very good steel. You'll really enjoy using it.

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:08 am
by Doc Dan
vivi wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:02 am
Is it your first 204P knife? It's a very, very good steel. You'll really enjoy using it.
Yes, it is. It’ll get a daily workout since we have most things delivered these days.

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:21 am
by vivi
Doc Dan wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:08 am
vivi wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:02 am
Is it your first 204P knife? It's a very, very good steel. You'll really enjoy using it.
Yes, it is. It’ll get a daily workout since we have most things delivered these days.
I carried a Military in 204P for a while and its one of the better stainless steels I've tried. Very good edge holding but not as time consuming to sharpen as some other higher end stainless steels I've tried. It also showed excellent corrosion resistance for me.

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:00 am
by Bloke
That’s really cool, Doc! I have a 204P Military I should use more often. :rolleyes:

Do you have any ZDP-189, British Racing Green, FRN scales (my favourite scale colour) to compare with?

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:10 am
by Cycletroll
vivi wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:21 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:08 am
vivi wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:02 am
Is it your first 204P knife? It's a very, very good steel. You'll really enjoy using it.
Yes, it is. It’ll get a daily workout since we have most things delivered these days.
I carried a Military in 204P for a while and its one of the better stainless steels I've tried. Very good edge holding but not as time consuming to sharpen as some other higher end stainless steels I've tried. It also showed excellent corrosion resistance for me.
Ditto on Vivi's experience on the 204p Mille. It is a really well balanced steel. I carry it a lot when I have corrosion concerns. P4 otherwise. On a side note Gerald (Outpost 76 on YT) tested my 204p Mille and it did very respectable especially fine edge holding (170 to 179 ft cardboard maintaining shaving sharpness). Seems that well heat treated m390 analogs do very well in fine edge holding but not quite as well in working edge as some of the big guns like s90v, s110v, k390, etc. Makes sense given it doesn't have tons of Vanadium or any wolfram.
Really wish Sal & Co would make an Endura in 204p. Delica is just to small for me to carry a lot.

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:28 am
by p_atrick
Cycletroll wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:10 am
Really wish Sal & Co would make an Endura in 204p.
I'd reach out to Knife Works and express your desire for them to expand their line of the Seki models in 204P. I already asked them for a Police in that configuration. I was told the owner keeps these cards close to his chest, so they can't say one way or another about the expansion of this series.

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:56 am
by Cycletroll
p_atrick wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:28 am
Cycletroll wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:10 am
Really wish Sal & Co would make an Endura in 204p.
I'd reach out to Knife Works and express your desire for them to expand their line of the Seki models in 204P. I already asked them for a Police in that configuration. I was told the owner keeps these cards close to his chest, so they can't say one way or another about the expansion of this series.
Great suggestion, I'll drop them a line.
I've purchased a lot of Spydies from them over the years. :)

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:19 am
by DSH007
Agreed Doc, this is one of the nicer iterations of the Delica that I've seen. Nice even grinds and really sharp out of the box! Love the color too!

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:50 am
by Doc Dan
Bloke wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:00 am
That’s really cool, Doc! I have a 204P Military I should use more often. :rolleyes:

Do you have any ZDP-189, British Racing Green, FRN scales (my favourite scale colour) to compare with?
I don’t but these are very dark. It’s about the color of a friends old MG car.

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:53 am
by Doc Dan
DSH007 wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:19 am
Agreed Doc, this is one of the nicer iterations of the Delica that I've seen. Nice even grinds and really sharp out of the box! Love the color too!
Yes, this is the best Delica I’ve seen. It seems this knife keeps getting incrementally better with each new version.

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:43 am
by cycleguy
Bloke wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:00 am
That’s really cool, Doc! I have a 204P Military I should use more often. :rolleyes:

Do you have any ZDP-189, British Racing Green, FRN scales (my favourite scale colour) to compare with?
Here you go...

Different background and lighting

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:41 am
by Menipo
vivi wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:21 am

I carried a Military in 204P for a while and its one of the better stainless steels I've tried. Very good edge holding but not as time consuming to sharpen as some other higher end stainless steels I've tried. It also showed excellent corrosion resistance for me.
Vivi,

Is 204P in your experience easier to sharpen than, for instance, CPM-S110V or CPM-20CV? I read the following in Blade HQ "BEST KNIFE STEEL COMPARISON AND CHARTS" and thought that it is another hard-to-sharpen steel:

"Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all essentially the same steel and sport a near identical composition. With significant amounts of Chromium, Molybdenum, Vanadium, and Tungsten, these steels are 100% ready for action. CTS-204P is made by the USA-based Carpenter Technology Corporation and CPM-20CV is manufactured by Crucible Industries."

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:47 am
by vivi
Menipo wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:41 am
vivi wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:21 am

I carried a Military in 204P for a while and its one of the better stainless steels I've tried. Very good edge holding but not as time consuming to sharpen as some other higher end stainless steels I've tried. It also showed excellent corrosion resistance for me.
Vivi,

Is 204P in your experience easier to sharpen than, for instance, CPM-S110V or CPM-20CV? I read the following in Blade HQ "BEST KNIFE STEEL COMPARISON AND CHARTS" and thought that it is another hard-to-sharp steel:

"Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all essentially the same steel and sport a near identical composition. With significant amounts of Chromium, Molybdenum, Vanadium, and Tungsten, these steels are 100% ready for action. CTS-204P is made by the USA-based Carpenter Technology Corporation and CPM-20CV is manufactured by Crucible Industries."
I've yet to use 20CV but I found 204P easier to sharpen than S110V.

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:49 am
by Menipo
vivi wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:47 am
Menipo wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:41 am
vivi wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:21 am

I carried a Military in 204P for a while and its one of the better stainless steels I've tried. Very good edge holding but not as time consuming to sharpen as some other higher end stainless steels I've tried. It also showed excellent corrosion resistance for me.
Vivi,

Is 204P in your experience easier to sharpen than, for instance, CPM-S110V or CPM-20CV? I read the following in Blade HQ "BEST KNIFE STEEL COMPARISON AND CHARTS" and thought that it is another hard-to-sharp steel:

"Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all essentially the same steel and sport a near identical composition. With significant amounts of Chromium, Molybdenum, Vanadium, and Tungsten, these steels are 100% ready for action. CTS-204P is made by the USA-based Carpenter Technology Corporation and CPM-20CV is manufactured by Crucible Industries."
I've yet to use 20CV but I found 204P easier to sharpen than S110V.
Thanks, Vivi!

I have two S110Vs (PM 2 and UKPK) and never dared to even put them close to the sharpening gear because of what I have read.

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:45 am
by Cycletroll
Larrin addresses the carbide type in 204p class steels and why they are easier to sharpen:
"Microstructure

The high chromium content in M390 means that less of the high hardness vanadium carbide is present in the steel, and the majority of carbide is the lower hardness chromium carbide. The vanadium does increase the hardness of the chromium carbides, however. You can read more about the interaction between different elements for carbide formation in this article on carbides. Chromium carbides tend to be larger than vanadium carbides in power metallurgy steels which limits toughness, but they are easier to sharpen because they are softer than common sharpening abrasives like aluminum oxide. Bohler reports that M390 has about 18% chromium carbide and 2.5% vanadium carbide [20], and in my metallography I found about 22% carbide. This high carbide volume results from the high carbon and chromium in the steel, which puts its carbide content similar to steels like Maxamet, S90V, and 15V. The high volume of chromium carbide means that M390 has a larger carbide structure than those steels, however. Stainless steels with a lower carbide content like S35VN, S45VN, or Vanax also have a finer microstructure. You can compare with many other steels in this article which contains all of my micrographs."
Citation from:
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/06/01/ ... -and-204p/


For what it's worth I too find it much easier to sharpen than the steels with more vanadium and tungsten carbides. That being said, proper stones and technique make any steel "easy to sharpen", some just take a little more time ;)

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:07 pm
by Menipo
Cycletroll wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:45 am
Larrin addresses the carbide type in 204p class steels and why they are easier to sharpen:
"Microstructure

The high chromium content in M390 means that less of the high hardness vanadium carbide is present in the steel, and the majority of carbide is the lower hardness chromium carbide. The vanadium does increase the hardness of the chromium carbides, however. You can read more about the interaction between different elements for carbide formation in this article on carbides. Chromium carbides tend to be larger than vanadium carbides in power metallurgy steels which limits toughness, but they are easier to sharpen because they are softer than common sharpening abrasives like aluminum oxide. Bohler reports that M390 has about 18% chromium carbide and 2.5% vanadium carbide [20], and in my metallography I found about 22% carbide. This high carbide volume results from the high carbon and chromium in the steel, which puts its carbide content similar to steels like Maxamet, S90V, and 15V. The high volume of chromium carbide means that M390 has a larger carbide structure than those steels, however. Stainless steels with a lower carbide content like S35VN, S45VN, or Vanax also have a finer microstructure. You can compare with many other steels in this article which contains all of my micrographs."
Citation from:
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/06/01/ ... -and-204p/


For what it's worth I too find it much easier to sharpen than the steels with more vanadium and tungsten carbides. That being said, proper stones and technique make any steel "easy to sharpen", some just take a little more time ;)

Thanks! It makes sense. Some videos that I saw (like the one that I link below) show that sharpening S110V is not so difficult but on the other side I have read a lot of opinions stating the contrary. So I got confused with the point of reference (S110V) to compare 204p (in terms of ease of sharpening).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOHusrAPOEw

From what you and Vivi said, it is clear that 204p is easier to sharpen than S110V. So if S110V is a sharpening nightmare (as many say), 204p is a "nightmare minus" :D . And if S110V is not so complicate (as the guy in the video says) 204p will be even easier to work with. The conclusion is clear: I will seriously consider to add a 204p blade to my collection :)

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:14 pm
by Albatross
Menipo wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:07 pm
Cycletroll wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:45 am
Larrin addresses the carbide type in 204p class steels and why they are easier to sharpen:
"Microstructure

The high chromium content in M390 means that less of the high hardness vanadium carbide is present in the steel, and the majority of carbide is the lower hardness chromium carbide. The vanadium does increase the hardness of the chromium carbides, however. You can read more about the interaction between different elements for carbide formation in this article on carbides. Chromium carbides tend to be larger than vanadium carbides in power metallurgy steels which limits toughness, but they are easier to sharpen because they are softer than common sharpening abrasives like aluminum oxide. Bohler reports that M390 has about 18% chromium carbide and 2.5% vanadium carbide [20], and in my metallography I found about 22% carbide. This high carbide volume results from the high carbon and chromium in the steel, which puts its carbide content similar to steels like Maxamet, S90V, and 15V. The high volume of chromium carbide means that M390 has a larger carbide structure than those steels, however. Stainless steels with a lower carbide content like S35VN, S45VN, or Vanax also have a finer microstructure. You can compare with many other steels in this article which contains all of my micrographs."
Citation from:
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/06/01/ ... -and-204p/


For what it's worth I too find it much easier to sharpen than the steels with more vanadium and tungsten carbides. That being said, proper stones and technique make any steel "easy to sharpen", some just take a little more time ;)

Thanks! It makes sense. Some videos that I saw (like the one that I link below) show that sharpening S110V is not so difficult but on the other side I have read a lot of opinions stating the contrary. So I got confused with the point of reference (S110V) to compare 204p (in terms of ease of sharpening).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOHusrAPOEw

From what you and Vivi said, it is clear that 204p is easier to sharpen than S110V. So if S110V is a sharpening nightmare (as many say), 204p is a "nightmare minus" :D . And if S110V is not so complicate (as the guy in the video says) 204p will be even easier to work with. The conclusion is clear: I will seriously consider to add a 204p blade to my collection :)
S110V can be (but isn't necessarily) very difficult to sharpen for a beginner. A lot of people were using too much pressure and not using diamond or cbn stones. I’ve heard that S110V isn't very forgiving, meaning it's less likely to get sharp if your angle changes during sharpening. There are a few steels that like that extra bit of consistency, but I don’t think any of them are difficult to sharpen. S110v burr removal takes longer than a lot of other steels, but 204P doesn't produce a massive burr, and removing it is very easy.

204P (also M390 and 20CV) sharpens fairly easily. It takes much less time to sharpen than S110V. One thing I dislike about 204P is that the edge gets very sharp, but doesn't have the kind of aggression S110V has, due to the differences in carbide content.

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:37 pm
by Bloke
cycleguy wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:43 am

Here you go...
Many Thanks, Guy! :)

Just looking you’d have to think those scales are the same colour and the knife’s worth buying for that reason alone. Ah, hahaha! ;)

Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:38 pm
by Doc Dan
Bloke wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:37 pm
cycleguy wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:43 am

Here you go...
Many Thanks, Guy! :)

Just looking you’d have to think those scales are the same colour and the knife’s worth buying for that reason alone. Ah, hahaha! ;)
The forest green is more green, but dark. The BRG is a little on the blue spectrum, but still dark green, if you know what I’m trying to say. I think you’d like the color.