Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

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Doc Dan
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Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Postby Doc Dan » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:41 pm

Here is a pull cut through soft hanging two ply toilet paper. The tear is my fault. I did it taking the sheet off the roll. This knife is sharp.

Edit: the picture posted blurry so I removed it. However, this knife is sharp enough to satisfy anybody.
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Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Postby Menipo » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:57 pm

Albatross wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:14 pm

S110V can be (but isn't necessarily) very difficult to sharpen for a beginner. A lot of people were using too much pressure and not using diamond or cbn stones . I’ve heard that S110V isn't very forgiving, meaning it's less likely to get sharp if your angle changes during sharpening. There are a few steels that like that extra bit of consistency, but I don’t think any of them are difficult to sharpen. S110v burr removal takes longer than a lot of other steels, but 204P doesn't produce a massive burr, and removing it is very easy.

204P (also M390 and 20CV) sharpens fairly easily. It takes much less time to sharpen than S110V. One thing I dislike about 204P is that the edge gets very sharp, but doesn't have the kind of aggression S110V has, due to the differences in carbide content.

Good to know, thanks!

As I use a KME with the diamond set, I would not have those problems (if and when I finally dare to sharpen my S110Vs). :D
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weeping minora
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Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Postby weeping minora » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:17 am

Missed out on this run as I splurged on the M390 run a while back. Not so different as to justify a purchase for me, though the price on these sure was a kicker!

Not to de-rail the thread, but where da Jazzlica sprints/exclusives at?!? Sal... Jazz...?
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Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Postby M Sea » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:33 am

Dang, missed out on this. I need to pay more attention. Looks sweet.
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Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Postby awa54 » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:19 am

Menipo wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:07 pm
Cycletroll wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:45 am
Larrin addresses the carbide type in 204p class steels and why they are easier to sharpen:
"Microstructure

The high chromium content in M390 means that less of the high hardness vanadium carbide is present in the steel, and the majority of carbide is the lower hardness chromium carbide. The vanadium does increase the hardness of the chromium carbides, however. You can read more about the interaction between different elements for carbide formation in this article on carbides. Chromium carbides tend to be larger than vanadium carbides in power metallurgy steels which limits toughness, but they are easier to sharpen because they are softer than common sharpening abrasives like aluminum oxide. Bohler reports that M390 has about 18% chromium carbide and 2.5% vanadium carbide [20], and in my metallography I found about 22% carbide. This high carbide volume results from the high carbon and chromium in the steel, which puts its carbide content similar to steels like Maxamet, S90V, and 15V. The high volume of chromium carbide means that M390 has a larger carbide structure than those steels, however. Stainless steels with a lower carbide content like S35VN, S45VN, or Vanax also have a finer microstructure. You can compare with many other steels in this article which contains all of my micrographs."
Citation from:
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/06/01/ ... -and-204p/


For what it's worth I too find it much easier to sharpen than the steels with more vanadium and tungsten carbides. That being said, proper stones and technique make any steel "easy to sharpen", some just take a little more time ;)

Thanks! It makes sense. Some videos that I saw (like the one that I link below) show that sharpening S110V is not so difficult but on the other side I have read a lot of opinions stating the contrary. So I got confused with the point of reference (S110V) to compare 204p (in terms of ease of sharpening).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOHusrAPOEw

From what you and Vivi said, it is clear that 204p is easier to sharpen than S110V. So if S110V is a sharpening nightmare (as many say), 204p is a "nightmare minus" :D . And if S110V is not so complicate (as the guy in the video says) 204p will be even easier to work with. The conclusion is clear: I will seriously consider to add a 204p blade to my collection :)
S110V is difficult to put a fine/polished edge on, or at least a polished edge that's actually sharp... However low grit working edges are actually very easy to achieve, so long as you have diamond, CBN or ceramic stones. The best thing about that "quirk" is that S110V is most useful with exactly that sort of edge!

As far as "super steels" that take a good and lasting fine edge, the M390 family is probably the easiest to sharpen and one of the best stainless alloys for that purpose IMO.

Don't be afraid of high carbide stainless, just don't treat it like carbon steel or older stainless alloys and you'll have great results!
-David

still more knives than sharpening stones...

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Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Postby Menipo » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:47 pm

awa54 wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:19 am

S110V is difficult to put a fine/polished edge on, or at least a polished edge that's actually sharp... However low grit working edges are actually very easy to achieve, so long as you have diamond, CBN or ceramic stones. The best thing about that "quirk" is that S110V is most useful with exactly that sort of edge!

As far as "super steels" that take a good and lasting fine edge, the M390 family is probably the easiest to sharpen and one of the best stainless alloys for that purpose IMO.

Don't be afraid of high carbide stainless, just don't treat it like carbon steel or older stainless alloys and you'll have great results!

Many thanks for your input, David!
Si vis pacem para bellum ;)

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Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Postby vivi » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:43 pm

I know it isn't the latest hot steel, but as far as high edge retention steels that take a nice polish and hold it, ZDP is up there for me. The composition is a little different from what I recall, seems to rely on the mix of high hardness and tons of carbon for edgeholding rather than lots of vanadium carbides. Something about that chemistry, for me, translated into a steel that burred very little with sharpening and held a highly polished edge very well.
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Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Postby Doc Dan » Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:49 pm

vivi wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:43 pm
I know it isn't the latest hot steel, but as far as high edge retention steels that take a nice polish and hold it, ZDP is up there for me. The composition is a little different from what I recall, seems to rely on the mix of high hardness and tons of carbon for edgeholding rather than lots of vanadium carbides. Something about that chemistry, for me, translated into a steel that burred very little with sharpening and held a highly polished edge very well.
ZDP-189 is a great steel and probably better than the majority of other super steels. It just isn’t fashionable right now. It really does perform well. It holds an edge better than most.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)


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Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Postby Menipo » Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:43 am

Thanks Vivi and Doc,

ZDP-189 would be in my list for sure due to its superb edge retention, but you already know my aversion to steels "which tend to rust".

I was searching about ZDP-189 and what I found is that it is probably one the best steels available in every aspect but corrosion.

I was particularly impressed by Evil D's opinion on the thread "Corrosion resistance ZDP189 vs S110V": "There may be others that are worse but I don't know them. My ZDP Ladybug has rusted just from hanging on my keys and being tucked into my back pocket, which is no worse than clipping it into your pocket."

https://forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.php?t=70488
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Re: Holy Cow! Delica 204P rocks!

Postby weeping minora » Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:48 am

Would love to see that Jazzlica adorned in ZDP-189 :p.. :cool:.
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