LC vs. LV

[awa54]

I've been turning some shaving brush handles lately, both in Bocote and Lignum Vitae woods. Bocote is a hard waxy wood, but Argentine Lignum Vitae is ridiculously hard and has enough resin that it resists water without any treatment.

The way I turn my handles leaves me to part the finished piece off of the base of the blank, that's held in the chuck... which means I have to leave the handle connected to the blank by a 5 to 10mm stub, that's then sawed off, leaving a 2-3mm tall stub of wood on the base of the handle that needs to be removed.

Normally I'd do this with a belt or disc sander, but I'm too lazy to dig mine out of it's current location and take it to the work area where my lathe is set up (about 15 miles from each other), so I've been whittling the stubs off to near flush, then sanding them flat on a sheet of 400 wet/dry to finish.

The first knife I tried this with was a laminated HC Mora/Frosts sloyd... bad call: I chipped the everloving cr@p out of the blade :eek: then I moved on to a Helle laminate blade woodworking knife with a much more obtuse grind, that survived but was hardly optimal. Next, I tried to do one "on site" with my Elmax Urban. Ouch. It actually chipped out worse than the poor Mora had.

Then I was again tempted to try an in-situ removal, but this time the PE sheepfoot Caribbean was clipped in my pocket... I was a bit worried that the edge might roll on wood as dense and hard as LV, but it turns out I didn't need to be, the combination of toughness, very shallow curvature and accute grind added up to the best tool for this task so far (aside from my wayward sander), I've done three of these so far using the Caribbean, with no noticeable dulling, let alone damage to the edge. Go, Go LC200!!

I like my Caribbean even more now :D

[JonLeBlanc]

oh wow those are great!

[Enactive]

Thanks, David. As a carpenter and woodworker, I appreciate your report. I like my LC a lot too-- enough to have a few!

Beautiful work!

[Abyss_Fish]

THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING. Lc200n is one of, if not the best, all around steel. And you can beat on it mercilessly without worry. Plus even if you did roll the edge you could literally strop the roll out.

fantastic work mate! And thanks for sharing your experience with the steel, the more positive lc200n stories we get the more lc200n knives we'll get :p

[Sumdumguy]

I've been turning some shaving brush handles lately, both in Bocote and Lignum Vitae woods. Bocote is a hard waxy wood, but Argentine Lignum Vitae is ridiculously hard and has enough resin that it resists water without any treatment.

The way I turn my handles leaves me to part the finished piece off of the base of the blank, that's held in the chuck... which means I have to leave the handle connected to the blank by a 5 to 10mm stub, that's then sawed off, leaving a 2-3mm tall stub of wood on the base of the handle that needs to be removed.

Normally I'd do this with a belt or disc sander, but I'm too lazy to dig mine out of it's current location and take it to the work area where my lathe is set up (about 15 miles from each other), so I've been whittling the stubs off to near flush, then sanding them flat on a sheet of 400 wet/dry to finish.

The first knife I tried this with was a laminated HC Mora/Frosts sloyd... bad call: I chipped the everloving cr@p out of the blade :eek: then I moved on to a Helle laminate blade woodworking knife with a much more obtuse grind, that survived but was hardly optimal. Next, I tried to do one "on site" with my Elmax Urban. Ouch. It actually chipped out worse than the poor Mora had.

Then I was again tempted to try an in-situ removal, but this time the PE sheepfoot Caribbean was clipped in my pocket... I was a bit worried that the edge might roll on wood as dense and hard as LV, but it turns out I didn't need to be, the combination of toughness, very shallow curvature and accute grind added up to the best tool for this task so far (aside from my wayward sander), I've done three of these so far using the Caribbean, with no noticeable dulling, let alone damage to the edge. Go, Go LC200!!

I like my Caribbean even more now :D



P9300010sm.JPG

P9210005sm.JPG

P9180002sm.JPG

I have done some ridiculous things to the edge and have never had more than the slightest roll.

LC200N is a beast of a steel! Some refuse to drink the koolaid, though...

If only they knew!

[vivi]

I've been turning some shaving brush handles lately, both in Bocote and Lignum Vitae woods. Bocote is a hard waxy wood, but Argentine Lignum Vitae is ridiculously hard and has enough resin that it resists water without any treatment.

The way I turn my handles leaves me to part the finished piece off of the base of the blank, that's held in the chuck... which means I have to leave the handle connected to the blank by a 5 to 10mm stub, that's then sawed off, leaving a 2-3mm tall stub of wood on the base of the handle that needs to be removed.

Normally I'd do this with a belt or disc sander, but I'm too lazy to dig mine out of it's current location and take it to the work area where my lathe is set up (about 15 miles from each other), so I've been whittling the stubs off to near flush, then sanding them flat on a sheet of 400 wet/dry to finish.

The first knife I tried this with was a laminated HC Mora/Frosts sloyd... bad call: I chipped the everloving cr@p out of the blade :eek: then I moved on to a Helle laminate blade woodworking knife with a much more obtuse grind, that survived but was hardly optimal. Next, I tried to do one "on site" with my Elmax Urban. Ouch. It actually chipped out worse than the poor Mora had.

Then I was again tempted to try an in-situ removal, but this time the PE sheepfoot Caribbean was clipped in my pocket... I was a bit worried that the edge might roll on wood as dense and hard as LV, but it turns out I didn't need to be, the combination of toughness, very shallow curvature and accute grind added up to the best tool for this task so far (aside from my wayward sander), I've done three of these so far using the Caribbean, with no noticeable dulling, let alone damage to the edge. Go, Go LC200!!

I like my Caribbean even more now :D



P9300010sm.JPG

P9210005sm.JPG

P9180002sm.JPG

I have done some ridiculous things to the edge and have never had more than the slightest roll.

LC200N is a beast of a steel! Some refuse to drink the koolaid, though...

If only they knew!

I think some people are put off by the salt marketing, thinking that if the corrosion resistance of regular stainless steels is sufficient for their uses, they don't need LC200N. But its a wonderful steel in every respect, the corrosion proofness is icing on the cake. It doesn't seem to be any more expensive than VG10, and doesn'tdo anything worse than VG10, while clearly doing certain things better. What's not to love?

[Bill1170]

Trimming end grain like that is an excellent test of an edge. I found that ZDP-189 in a Delica worked much better for trimming end grain than VG-10 in an identical (same grind) Delica. My only LC200N blade is SE, which is ill-suited to the end grain precision trimming task. At some point I’ll probably own an LC blade in PE and can test it at that time.

I agree with Vivi’s post just above. LC200N is a great balanced steel and shouldn’t be limited to use on the water.

[Pancake]

I saw the brushes and was like: I am on the right forum?
I am a wet shaver, and I have to say, your brushes are looking for good.
Sorry for OT

[Sumdumguy]

I've been turning some shaving brush handles lately, both in Bocote and Lignum Vitae woods. Bocote is a hard waxy wood, but Argentine Lignum Vitae is ridiculously hard and has enough resin that it resists water without any treatment.

The way I turn my handles leaves me to part the finished piece off of the base of the blank, that's held in the chuck... which means I have to leave the handle connected to the blank by a 5 to 10mm stub, that's then sawed off, leaving a 2-3mm tall stub of wood on the base of the handle that needs to be removed.

Normally I'd do this with a belt or disc sander, but I'm too lazy to dig mine out of it's current location and take it to the work area where my lathe is set up (about 15 miles from each other), so I've been whittling the stubs off to near flush, then sanding them flat on a sheet of 400 wet/dry to finish.

The first knife I tried this with was a laminated HC Mora/Frosts sloyd... bad call: I chipped the everloving cr@p out of the blade :eek: then I moved on to a Helle laminate blade woodworking knife with a much more obtuse grind, that survived but was hardly optimal. Next, I tried to do one "on site" with my Elmax Urban. Ouch. It actually chipped out worse than the poor Mora had.

Then I was again tempted to try an in-situ removal, but this time the PE sheepfoot Caribbean was clipped in my pocket... I was a bit worried that the edge might roll on wood as dense and hard as LV, but it turns out I didn't need to be, the combination of toughness, very shallow curvature and accute grind added up to the best tool for this task so far (aside from my wayward sander), I've done three of these so far using the Caribbean, with no noticeable dulling, let alone damage to the edge. Go, Go LC200!!

I like my Caribbean even more now :D



P9300010sm.JPG

P9210005sm.JPG

P9180002sm.JPG

I have done some ridiculous things to the edge and have never had more than the slightest roll.

LC200N is a beast of a steel! Some refuse to drink the koolaid, though...

If only they knew!

I think some people are put off by the salt marketing, thinking that if the corrosion resistance of regular stainless steels is sufficient for their uses, they don't need LC200N. But its a wonderful steel in every respect, the corrosion proofness is icing on the cake. It doesn't seem to be any more expensive than VG10, and doesn'tdo anything worse than VG10, while clearly doing certain things better. What's not to love?

That could be it, too. I don't know. All I do know, is that if I could only choose one steel to have on all of my knives, indefinitely. LC200N is the king.
I know it can complete whatever reckless task I am doing, in any environment I happen to be doing it in.

You're spot on about the price. I've been arguing about that forever. All the time, I hear the position, "It will make the knife too expensive.".

News flash, S30V is more expensive than LC200N and galvanic corrosion isn't that bad!

[Tucson Tom]

Interesting indeed. My only LC200N is my mule that I use almost daily in the kitchen.

So where do you get the bristles to make brushes like that. You have me wanting to try making some.

[awa54]

Interesting indeed. My only LC200N is my mule that I use almost daily in the kitchen.

So where do you get the bristles to make brushes like that. You have me wanting to try making some.

The knots I used in these are all from Maggard's. I really like their 2-band "basic" bulb knot and the fan shaped UHD, isn't bad either, just more expensive and with less backbone... I have also used knots from The Golden Nib, with excellent results.

I'm a face latherer and enjoy small (18mm-22mm knot base) brushes that can scrub a bit, if you like a softer brush, then silvertip or "best" may suit you better, that or loft the knot taller, mine are set pretty deep to maximize firmness.

Thanks to all who like the brushes! I mostly just have fun making them, but once I can consistently produce the exact handle I intend, I might try selling them on a shaving forum BST... we can all dream right?

I'd love to see something like the Delica or Chap in LC, I already have far too many knives, but something like that might tempt me to buy another The Native Salt keeps taunting me, but the grind is too thick, so I've successfully resisted

[RustyIron]

I've been turning some shaving brush handles lately, both in Bocote and Lignum Vitae woods.

Thanks for the informative post. I have nothing in LC200N, but I'm eyeing a knife that should be released soon. I currently use a store-bought silver-tip badger hair brush, but when it needs replacement, I'll make the handle. I have two shaving bowls that I made, one in tabebuia, one in bodark. The base of my brush/razor stand is brass and tabebuia. I'm more of a metalworker than a woodworker, so all my work is done on a metal lathe. It's not as fancy as your work.

[awa54]

I've been turning some shaving brush handles lately, both in Bocote and Lignum Vitae woods.

Thanks for the informative post. I have nothing in LC200N, but I'm eyeing a knife that should be released soon. I currently use a store-bought silver-tip badger hair brush, but when it needs replacement, I'll make the handle. I have two shaving bowls that I made, one in tabebuia, one in bodark. The base of my brush/razor stand is brass and tabebuia. I'm more of a metalworker than a woodworker, so all my work is done on a metal lathe. It's not as fancy as your work.

Cool, I've used Osage Orange for a handle, though it hasn't had a knot fitted, so I can't comment on the long term water resistance, though woodworking lore suggests it could be a good handle material. When I turned mine it was easy to get discoloration when using a scraping gouge, I'm assuming that's due to the latex-like sap? I do have a locust handle that has held up well, so exotics are not required.

I'd never heard of Tabebuia before, but that sounds like an interesting wood as well!

What kind of finish have you used on your bowls?

Also, which soon to be released knife in LC200N are you waiting for?

[Tucson Tom]

Interesting indeed. My only LC200N is my mule that I use almost daily in the kitchen.

So where do you get the bristles to make brushes like that. You have me wanting to try making some.

The knots I used in these are all from Maggard's. I really like their 2-band "basic" bulb knot and the fan shaped UHD, isn't bad either, just more expensive and with less backbone... I have also used knots from The Golden Nib, with excellent results.

I'm a face latherer and enjoy small (18mm-22mm knot base) brushes that can scrub a bit, if you like a softer brush, then silvertip or "best" may suit you better, that or loft the knot taller, mine are set pretty deep to maximize firmness.

Thanks to all who like the brushes! I mostly just have fun making them, but once I can consistently produce the exact handle I intend, I might try selling them on a shaving forum BST... we can all dream right?

I'd love to see something like the Delica or Chap in LC, I already have far too many knives, but something like that might tempt me to buy another The Native Salt keeps taunting me, but the grind is too thick, so I've successfully resisted

Thanks a lot! I don't think you are dreaming -- you will have no trouble selling those brushes. I am a wet shaver myself and using a brush given to me as a gift years ago, but it would be fun to make my own, thanks for starting me on that journey. I'll have to investigate how to use my Atlas metalworking lathe for wood turning.

And I can use my LC200N mule to trim end grain once I get going.

[curlyhairedboy]

this thread has me wondering about LV scales for the Caribbean. A wood that can handle salt conditions would be a nice pairing...

[RustyIron]

I'd never heard of Tabebuia before, but that sounds like an interesting wood as well!

Thirty years ago, we put in an exotic tropical tree that was recommended by our landscaper. Beautiful tree, and I've since put in three more. It's now very popular in Socal because our climate is perfect for it. The first tree grew too large, and we had it chopped down. The tree guys left me some chunks, which I intended to split. I took my old splitting wedge, and could barely put a dent in the wood. Mrs. Iron went out and bought me a special splitting axe. I could barely dent the wood. I ended up burning some and turning some. The wood has lovely grain and some iridescence. When turning, it smells almost chocolatey. It's also somewhat toxic, so you should probably refrain from snorting sawdust rails off the workbench.

What kind of finish have you used on your bowls?

I can't recall exactly. The bodark was some kind of Min-Wax super duper stuff, and the tabebuia might have just been paste wax. I only use Saponifico Varesino shaving soap, and the pucks are poured into a little plastic tray. I turn my bowls to fit the tray.

Also, which soon to be released knife in LC200N are you waiting for?

Autonomy 2, serrated.

[awa54]

Thanks a lot! I don't think you are dreaming -- you will have no trouble selling those brushes. I am a wet shaver myself and using a brush given to me as a gift years ago, but it would be fun to make my own, thanks for starting me on that journey. I'll have to investigate how to use my Atlas metalworking lathe for wood turning.

And I can use my LC200N mule to trim end grain once I get going.

Hi Tucson Tom,

If your lathe has at least 1/2hp and can spin 1500rpm, then all you need is a chuck that will grip a 1.5" square turning blank (common size for pool cue center joins and bottle stoppers) thats at least 3" long, a forstner bit that's the right diameter for your chosen knot, a freehand tool rest and a couple basic turning chisels. I shape as close to finished as I'm able with gouges and scrapers, but using sandpaper works well for final shaping and finishing too and requires less initial outlay.

I just made a handle in African Blackwood last night, some sources actually suggest using metal turning cutters for this wood... I had to do most of my rough shaping with a carbide round tipped chisel, regular bowl gouges skipped and chattered on it!

[awa54]

LC200N met its match last night in the form of the African Blackwood handle I turned; while the edge wasn't actually damaged, I did get considerable dulling from trimming the (very small, maybe 3/16") stub off the base of that one.

In all fairness, it *did* do the job and the severe dulling that resulted in spots was easy to fix with just a few passes on the sharpmaker, so I'm still very impressed.

[Tucson Tom]

Thanks a lot! I don't think you are dreaming -- you will have no trouble selling those brushes. I am a wet shaver myself and using a brush given to me as a gift years ago, but it would be fun to make my own, thanks for starting me on that journey. I'll have to investigate how to use my Atlas metalworking lathe for wood turning.

And I can use my LC200N mule to trim end grain once I get going.

Hi Tucson Tom,

If your lathe has at least 1/2hp and can spin 1500rpm, then all you need is a chuck that will grip a 1.5" square turning blank (common size for pool cue center joins and bottle stoppers) thats at least 3" long, a forstner bit that's the right diameter for your chosen knot, a freehand tool rest and a couple basic turning chisels. I shape as close to finished as I'm able with gouges and scrapers, but using sandpaper works well for final shaping and finishing too and requires less initial outlay.

I just made a handle in African Blackwood last night, some sources actually suggest using metal turning cutters for this wood... I had to do most of my rough shaping with a carbide round tipped chisel, regular bowl gouges skipped and chattered on it!

Thanks for the info. I'll print this out and keep it for a starting point.

The lathe has a 1 hp motor, and I have a 4 jaw chuck that will certainly go to 2 inches. So the main thing would be setting
up a freehand tool rest. I am betting that someone has already done this and posted about how they did it, so I'll do some searching and look into this.

The biggest hurdle is probably getting over my fear of freehand turning. Up to now I have always been cutting metal with a tool held in the cross slide and controlled by cranks under close precision.

[RustyIron]

So the main thing would be setting
up a freehand tool rest. I am betting that someone has already done this and posted about how they did it,

I've pondered upon this myself, but have not yet implemented the plan. Maybe this discussion will motivate me. The idea is to use a piece of round stock and hold it like a boring bar, and use that as the tool rest. My toolholders can accommodate 3/4" tools. So I'll start with a chunk of 1" cold rolled (bigger, stiffer, better). I'll mill some flats so it will fit the tool holder, and voilà! Instant wood turning tool rest!