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Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:00 pm
by nerdlock
Carlito555 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:41 pm
nerdlock wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:28 pm
Carlito555 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:34 pm
Someone may have suggested already, but debuting a pm2 LW in Vanex would help keep costs lower and guarantee some more buyers who are anxiously awaiting that FRN platform.
I'm confused here....how would debuting a Vanax PM2 LW make costs lower?
We are talking about 2 new implementations for the company.
A PM2 LW, if it ever happens, would mean another brand new mold and tooling investment from Spyderco. Additional costs to the production overhead of an already expensive steel choice. The Native 5 and Manix 2 LW platform didn't make the Maxamet versions any cheaper.
Ummmm vs titanium? Plus I believe the mold is somehow already in the works, thus leaving the cost of vanax being the only variable.
Lower price of theoretical FRN scales vs titanium scales for a PM2 will still be higher than most PM2 offerings given the cost of Vanax, if we base how much the Native 5 LW in Maxamet ($175) and Manix 2 LW in Maxamet ($203) cost. Shaun already stated it in Bladeforums that Vanax costs more than Maxamet so I don't see how lower it would get compared to the current Maxamet knife prices.
Why dont you see more Vanax SC?
COST
Its three times the cost of s30v, twice the cost of Elmax and it costs more then even Maxamet and rex 121.
Debuting a PM2 LW with Vanax steel at above $200 doesn't seem like a good way to attract new buyers especially since Vanax isn't much known outside of knife collecting circles. The casual knife buyer won't care much about how super stainless Vanax is, all they would care about is price to performance ratio.
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:28 am
by TkoK83Spy
Carlito555 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:47 pm
Rinzler wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:57 pm
I just read through every post here. As pointed out earlier, the OP’s abrasiveness, and frankly sort of a cocky jerk attitude, may have turned some people off from the concept of a vanax Spyderco knife. I know it did for me. However, as I continued through the thread I changed at how I thought about the idea.
It likely has merit, but at what cost? Spyderco makes excellent knives in useable, unique, and affordable designs. A $600 titanium and vanax PM2 doesn’t strike me as anything more than a knife living out its days in a climate controlled room or safe.
After objectively looking at this concept I’m not a buyer given the other excellent options available.
At 600 I definitely see your point...I am extremely hesitant to use my crucarta shaman for anything these days...it needs to be in the range where using is feasible for sure.
Why are you worried about using your Shaman?? That knife is built to work! Is it a value thing? I use mine in rotation quite a bit, it's a great knife and it's awesome to see the micarta patina as it gets use. Don't cheat yourself out of using a great knife because you're afraid of a scratch.
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:25 am
by aicolainen
TkoK83Spy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:28 am
Carlito555 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:47 pm
Rinzler wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:57 pm
I just read through every post here. As pointed out earlier, the OP’s abrasiveness, and frankly sort of a cocky jerk attitude, may have turned some people off from the concept of a vanax Spyderco knife. I know it did for me. However, as I continued through the thread I changed at how I thought about the idea.
It likely has merit, but at what cost? Spyderco makes excellent knives in useable, unique, and affordable designs. A $600 titanium and vanax PM2 doesn’t strike me as anything more than a knife living out its days in a climate controlled room or safe.
After objectively looking at this concept I’m not a buyer given the other excellent options available.
At 600 I definitely see your point...I am extremely hesitant to use my crucarta shaman for anything these days...it needs to be in the range where using is feasible for sure.
Why are you worried about using your Shaman?? That knife is built to work! Is it a value thing? I use mine in rotation quite a bit, it's a great knife and it's awesome to see the micarta patina as it gets use. Don't cheat yourself out of using a great knife because you're afraid of a scratch.
Agreed.
There is a thread about collection limiting rules, which I don't really have, but I have some philosophical guidelines:
- if the knife cost more than f* you money - I'm not buying. It's a tool, one should not worry about it's monetary value.
- I primarily buy easily replaceable production knives as to not worry about availability of replacements, and also the perceived value as a collectible.
- If I somehow chose to get a limited version anyways, I use it as a production model. It's likely to be a quality knife that will serve me a very long time for its intended use and there will quite certainly be many other interesting alternatives brought to market way before it's time to replace it.
I'm not very successful at being a minimalist, but I try to simplify and un-clutter as best I can, and one of the slogans that resonates with me is this: "Love people, use things".
Use your knives!
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:00 am
by bearfacedkiller
I would be interested in some Vanax but I wouldn’t pay a fortune for it. I just don’t value corrosion resistance that much. I don’t spend much time around salt water. When I need corrosion resistance my S110V Military has proved adequate and it comes with tons of edge retention.
As a pragmatist I will never understand folks treating exotic steels like precious metals. To me it is just an engineered material but to others it is an exclusive material.
This Vanax/Ti idea seems more like bling to me. That’s fine. Some people like fancy things and exclusivity. Some folks like status symbols. It gives them pride of ownership and makes them happy. If it will sell then I hope Spyderco makes it. Spyderco does have a history of making something for everybody and they have already made some very expensive knives so this may not be that far fetched.
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:21 am
by Ez556
Wow, this is quite the thread! Firstly, my thoughts on the topic of a Vanax PM2 is that if Spyderco thinks it’s a viable option, it would definitely be a cool piece. If not, they won’t make it. Like others said, no one is spending Spyderco’s money by suggesting it. I’m sure it would be (to me) insanely expensive if it were done with linerless TI scales like the copper PM2, but it would still sell. My CruWear Shaman is my most expensive knife, and I use it, but I own knives to use them and that’s the upper end of what I’d reasonably consider for a “user”. I’ve recently discovered this isn’t the case with everyone however after seeing numerous people who have Nirvanas and Paysans as their “users”, evidenced by visible wear. Blows my mind. I’m sure it’s likely that the majority sold would be “pocket jewelry” and never see any serious use, but I’m sure that there would be a good number of people that would actually put them to use. Now, a quick comment on people’s perception of the OP...
(TL:DR the internet is vast with a lot of different environments. I don’t think pm2og is malicious in any way, just from a different environment and is acclimating to this forums culture.)
remnar wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:07 pm
pm2og wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:47 pm
Mushroom wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:23 pm
I've seen
far too much disrespect from you on Instagram towards Spyderco.
Hopefully your contributions here on the forum will be different.
Disrespect is relative. I have literally sold thousands of knives for spyderco by testing and promotion. I have much respect. Im also very deliberate and honest in the way i talk and interact.
I have hate thrown at me every day. I deal. Its the way of communication in the new age. The older people get the less they understand it. Its evolution of communication.
I don't know anything about your instagram account or what you've done in the past but if you think throwing hate is "the way of communication in the new age", then it says a lot about you. But I am kinda old, so maybe I just don't understand. :rolleyes: A friendly word of advice: That B.S. don't fly here. Hopefully your communication will "devolve" back to a respectful state so that you can stick around and contribute to a great forum. :spyder:
This little exchange stood out to me, because I definitely understand where pm2og is coming from, but I also agree with remnar. Once you get to really any level of exposure on the internet, you are gonna get hate thrown at you. I don’t care how benign a topic may be, you are going to have those people who will throw insults and expletives at you and threaten all kinds of awful things. Say that you like to drive a Ford in a public environment on the internet and someone is gonna respond “#%*$ YOU FORDS ARE $&@% AND YOU ARE $*<@%*$ FOR EVEN SAYING THAT SO GO DIE IN A DITCH!!!”. Is it right? Absolutely not, I would agree with remnar that it shouldn’t be that way. But, that’s how things are in today’s world of internet communication, and everything that I’ve seen from pm2og here and on his Insta is frankly tame. A lot of his memes on his Insta are a bit at Spyderco’s expense, but that’s comedy, and they aren’t so in an ugly manor. I laughed at many of them. This forum is very polite and cordial, which is completely the result of the culture Sal, Kristi and others cultivate. It can be a little bit of an adjustment coming from other spheres of the internet though, and I think that is the case here. As I’ve stated in the past, I originally came from the Files of an AK forum, and that place is downright toxic in every way, but that was what I was used to, so when I spread out to other forums, I had to adjust. Within my first 3 posts on a Miata forum I got the ban hammer for a bit because I was responding in a way that was frankly pretty tame for the AK forum, but was evidently WAY over the top for them. This forum is even more welcoming (tame and polite) than that one, so I still had some adjusting to do when I began participating. My point is that I disagree with a lot of people’s assessment of pm2og, I just think it’s a bit of a clash of culture between internet spheres. We could all benefit from more respectful discourse on the internet though, the world would be a better place if it resembled this forum a bit more. I hope that pm2og and those he brought with him stick around and contribute to the discord here on the :spyder: Forum! Sorry for my novel :p
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:33 am
by aicolainen
Ez556 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:21 am
Wow, this is quite the thread! Firstly, my thoughts on the topic of a Vanax PM2 is that if Spyderco thinks it’s a viable option, it would definitely be a cool piece. If not, they won’t make it. Like others said, no one is spending Spyderco’s money by suggesting it. I’m sure it would be (to me) insanely expensive if it were done with linerless TI scales like the copper PM2, but it would still sell. My CruWear Shaman is my most expensive knife, and I use it, but I own knives to use them and that’s the upper end of what I’d reasonably consider for a “user”. I’ve recently discovered this isn’t the case with everyone however after seeing numerous people who have Nirvanas and Paysans as their “users”, evidenced by visible wear. Blows my mind. I’m sure it’s likely that the majority sold would be “pocket jewelry” and never see any serious use, but I’m sure that there would be a good number of people that would actually put them to use. Now, a quick comment on people’s perception of the OP...
(TL:DR the internet is vast with a lot of different environments. I don’t think pm2og is malicious in any way, just from a different environment and is acclimating to this forums culture.)
remnar wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:07 pm
pm2og wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:47 pm
Mushroom wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:23 pm
I've seen
far too much disrespect from you on Instagram towards Spyderco.
Hopefully your contributions here on the forum will be different.
Disrespect is relative. I have literally sold thousands of knives for spyderco by testing and promotion. I have much respect. Im also very deliberate and honest in the way i talk and interact.
I have hate thrown at me every day. I deal. Its the way of communication in the new age. The older people get the less they understand it. Its evolution of communication.
I don't know anything about your instagram account or what you've done in the past but if you think throwing hate is "the way of communication in the new age", then it says a lot about you. But I am kinda old, so maybe I just don't understand. :rolleyes: A friendly word of advice: That B.S. don't fly here. Hopefully your communication will "devolve" back to a respectful state so that you can stick around and contribute to a great forum. :spyder:
This little exchange stood out to me, because I definitely understand where pm2og is coming from, but I also agree with remnar. Once you get to really any level of exposure on the internet, you are gonna get hate thrown at you. I don’t care how benign a topic may be, you are going to have those people who will throw insults and expletives at you and threaten all kinds of awful things. Say that you like to drive a Ford in a public environment on the internet and someone is gonna respond “#%*$ YOU FORDS ARE $&@% AND YOU ARE $*<@%*$ FOR EVEN SAYING THAT SO GO DIE IN A DITCH!!!”. Is it right? Absolutely not, I would agree with remnar that it shouldn’t be that way. But, that’s how things are in today’s world of internet communication, and everything that I’ve seen from pm2og here and on his Insta is frankly tame. A lot of his memes on his Insta are a bit at Spyderco’s expense, but that’s comedy, and they aren’t so in an ugly manor. I laughed at many of them. This forum is very polite and cordial, which is completely the result of the culture Sal, Kristi and others cultivate. It can be a little bit of an adjustment coming from other spheres of the internet though, and I think that is the case here. As I’ve stated in the past, I originally came from the Files of an AK forum, and that place is downright toxic in every way, but that was what I was used to, so when I spread out to other forums, I had to adjust. Within my first 3 posts on a Miata forum I got the ban hammer for a bit because I was responding in a way that was frankly pretty tame for the AK forum, but was evidently WAY over the top for them. This forum is even more welcoming (tame and polite) than that one, so I still had some adjusting to do when I began participating. My point is that I disagree with a lot of people’s assessment of pm2og, I just think it’s a bit of a clash of culture between internet spheres. We could all benefit from more respectful discourse on the internet though, the world would be a better place if it resembled this forum a bit more. I hope that pm2og and those he brought with him stick around and contribute to the discord here on the :spyder: Forum! Sorry for my novel :p
Well assessed, Ez. Well written too.
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:50 pm
by steelcity16
While all you newcomers are here, can you pop on over to my Dodo-fly thread and use your collective willpower to make this one happen?? :D I think a Dodo-fly is much more likely than a $600 Ti-Van-PM2.
viewtopic.php?t=84079
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:55 pm
by Abyss_Fish
steelcity16 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:50 pm
While all you newcomers are here, can you pop on over to my Dodo-fly thread and use your collective willpower to make this one happen?? :D I think a Dodo-fly is much more likely than a $600 Ti-Van-PM2.
viewtopic.php?t=84079
make it lc200n and full flat ground and you've got my vote
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:46 pm
by Sharp Guy
steelcity16 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:50 pm
While all you newcomers are here, can you pop on over to my Dodo-fly thread and use your collective willpower to make this one happen?? :D I think a Dodo-fly is much more likely than a $600 Ti-Van-PM2.
viewtopic.php?t=84079
I look at your Dodo-Fly concept and I have to close thread because I start feeling like I'm going to be sick. You keep dreaming though :)
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:33 pm
by bearfacedkiller
Sounds like a good time for a Maxamet Military thread! :D Lets do this!
It definitely won’t be $600!
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:42 pm
by Lumpy
steelcity16 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:50 pm
While all you newcomers are here, can you pop on over to my Dodo-fly thread and use your collective willpower to make this one happen?? :D I think a Dodo-fly is much more likely than a $600 Ti-Van-PM2.
viewtopic.php?t=84079
Merge these 2 threads. We’re now fighting for a Vanax dodo-fly y’all.
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:10 pm
by sal
Hey Darby,
Would a Mule team in Vanax get your interest?
sal
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:10 pm
by sal
Hi 365Knives,
Welcome to our forum.
sal
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:19 pm
by SuperSteelAddict
A pm2 lw would be awesome!
I live on a small island so salt air gets everything!!!
My maxamet manix looks like it’s been acid washed.. as much as I do like a patina, a pm2 in vanax would be a perfect carry, Lw doubly so.
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:39 pm
by 5-by-5
Sumdumguy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:11 pm
No more PM2s, please. I'm all for Vanax. But, I'm over the PM2. There are enough variants to arm half the country. :D
Agreed. The PM2 is tired.
How about a Siren 2 in Vanax? Back lock is the best lock.
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:55 pm
by Pancake
Am I the only one who is not interested in this steel? Like, what it is so special about it?
According to Larrin testing, toughness is similar to CPM-154, and edge retention is similar to S35VN, but below S30V in his testing.
Yes, it's corrosion proof, but, like, that's it?
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:12 pm
by Enactive
Pancake wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:55 pm
Am I the only one who is not interested in this steel? Like, what it is so special about it?
According to Larrin testing, toughness is similar to CPM-154, and edge retention is similar to S35VN, but below S30V in his testing.
Yes, it's corrosion proof, but, like, that's it?
I am curious how much "better" ( and howso) it is than LC200N?
We won't know until there are production models, but also have a Catch 22 with high cost. I am not totally skeptical, but also would expect marginal gains.
Meanwhile I'll keep loving my LC200N and upping my sharpening game. :D :spyder:
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:28 pm
by Bloke
Enactive wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:12 pm
I am curious how much "better" ( and howso) it is than LC200N?
Hey Josh, that about sums it up for me and if I wasn’t as slack as I am I’d sharpen Luong’s knife and my Waterway about the same and go to town on them.
Gringo has an LC200N and a Chad Kelly custom Waterway in Vanax and with any luck he’ll chime in with his unbiased opinion. :)
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:35 pm
by Tucson Tom
A Vanax mule would be great. I'm not sure how excited I am about Vanax, but sometimes I am slow to warm up to good things. My take on it is that it is a super non-corroding steel like LC200N with well balanced characteristics. So I am left wondering just if or how much it is better than LC200N. Is it enough better to be worth the premium price?
As far as civil discourse on the internet -- we don't follow that rude crowd here. It is a bad trend and not anything to emulate or excuse. People think they look smarter when they act like jerks, or something of that sort.
Re: Vanax PM2 Lets Do This!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:46 pm
by Enactive
Bloke wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:28 pm
Enactive wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:12 pm
I am curious how much "better" ( and howso) it is than LC200N?
Hey Josh, that about sums it up for me and if I wasn’t as slack as I am I’d sharpen Luong’s knife and my Waterway about the same and go to town on them.
Gringo has an LC200N and a Chad Kelly custom Waterway in Vanax and with any luck he’ll chime in with his unbiased opinion. :)
Alex, maybe this thread will inspire you to get those two knives out. Hope you're well, mate!
D'oh! Of course-- thanks for the reminder about Lance's custom from Chad. We have an earlier impression...
Surfingringo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:06 pm
I’d love to see a Waterway and Siren sprint in Vanax. I’ve got a custom vanax waterway that Chad Kelly made me and its incredible! I don’t know what MSRP would look like on a production knife in vanax but it might be disproportionately expensive. I’d be very curious to know though because I’d pay a pretty big premium for a salt knife in vanax.
Clearly the Siren and Waterway are good candidates! I would be all for a Chief too.