Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

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ArnAnders89
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Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#1

Post by ArnAnders89 »

Hey everybody I would really appreciate any advice y’all have for me. I just got a few new Spyderco knives one in Rex 45 and a K390 and I’ll be looking to get a maxamet soon.
Currently I have Chosera whetstones but I’m looking to get a new set of stones probably diamond, looking mainly at Venev’s.
But I keep getting drawn back to the guided systems like KME Hapstone are the main ones I’m looking at.
I need your guises help on whether or not I should stick with free handing and keep practicing or just get a guided system and be done with it?
soc_monki
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#2

Post by soc_monki »

I went from guided to freehand. I got tired of having to deal with the limitations of the system I was using (lansky). I used a sharpmaker as well, but wanted to be able to reprofile faster.

I'm still not perfect, but I am still learning and getting better all the time. My edges may not be the prettiest, but they pop hair off my arm and slice paper towel cleanly, so they are certainly sharp enough for most any task.

I mainly use a sharpal coarse/fine diamond stone and spyderco medium and fine stones. Also have a diy strop with 7 micron diamond paste.
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p_atrick
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#3

Post by p_atrick »

I freehand (not the best, but getting better), so I say stick with freehand. What is drawing your interest to a fixed-angle system?
JuPaul
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#4

Post by JuPaul »

How much time do you want to devote to learning to sharpen? Freehand sharpening is really an incredible skill, and seems to require a lot of practice, experience, and muscle memory to perfect. A guided system does have some limitations, but has a much shorter learning curve and you still get great results. I use a KME for plain edges (including convex grinds), and a Sharpmaker for serrations.

Apologies: I misread your post...it looks like you already know how to freehand sharpen. Still, I think a guided system appeals to a lot of people that want precise, consistent results (such as knowing your exact bevel angle and keeping that consistent across all your knives).
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weeping minora
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#5

Post by weeping minora »

Hello Arn and welcome to the forum.

This is of course a very personal preference. I prefer the commitment of free-hand sharpening and I will freely admit I have never used a guided system of any kind, nor have I ever had to work with such "hard" steels as K390, REX 45, nor MAXAMET. I am a proponent of learning the technique involved in free-hand sharpening, as I feel the experience, not only in the skill involved and eventually learned, but the actual, almost meditative state you can experience whilst sharpening, as it can truly be a therapeutic release from daily shenanigans and stresses.

From a more objective viewpoint, the level of nuance involved is a perfectionists' playground with free-hand sharpening, really. There may never be a "perfect" edge in terms of absolute stability in angles, as the guided system can deliver at a microscopic level, but I feel you can achieve that perfect edge even moreso free-handed, if that makes any sort of sense. You have full freedom and control over the outcome. The only downside to this, as I'm sure you will find, is the time commitment. I prefer steels that actually need a touch up more frequently, though facilitate a much lesser time commitment to get my perfect edge. Plus side to the guided system is it takes out all of the guesswork and gets you that clinically precise edge without much involvement in terms of attentiveness. On the flipside, I've seen over the years many folks disdain for guided systems in that certain blade grinds facilitate much more difficulty in clamping the blade to get that free-thought perfect edge, i.e., a full flat grind has a continual diminishing angle to the edge, therefore is harder to hold between two parallel, flat clamps. FWIW, this may be a moot point in 2020. Another downside, many manufacturers don't offer compatible stones for a guided system, which is a huge disadvantage to obtaining a feel for a potentially favorite stone combination and finished edge.

In short, if you don't mind the hurdles of maintaining complete control, the finicky and sometimes costly expense of finding the right combination of stones, or time commitment, learning to free-hand sharpen is an extremely rewarding and personally invaluable skill IMO. If you can't be bothered with the learning curve of each blade shape, the steel characteristics and in some cases size of blade on the stones/wieldability of the knife in hand when sharpening, by all means, a guided system will get you an extremely precise edge. No way is technically "better" than the other, just different.

Hope this helps! Cheers!
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The Meat man
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#6

Post by The Meat man »

Welcome to the forum!

I use a Hapstone V7 and it works great. I'm capable of freehand sharpening, but find myself often preferring the precision and ease of use of the Hapstone.

I use Venev bonded diamond stones, purchased from Gritomatic, with my Hapstone system.

Every guided system has a learning curve, but it's a much shorter curve than freehand.
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Tucson Tom
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#7

Post by Tucson Tom »

I think the question is how are you getting along with freehand sharpening? If you are getting good results, you will only get better with more practice. If you are stuck and frustrated and thinking about switching to a guided system to remedy that, then the question is whether to throw in the towel and switch or persevere with free hand and crack the nut.

As to how a guided system would also be useful to a skilled freehand sharpener, smarter people than I will have to comment.

If you feel drawn to freehand, stick with it -- those are my 2 cents.
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Sharp Guy
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#8

Post by Sharp Guy »

I used to freehand sharpen (years ago) and could get pretty good results. Problem for me was consistency (or lack of). I think I got too caught up in trying to get the exact same angle each time I sharpened a knife. I got a slightly used Sharpmaker and that helped a lot. I haven't tried to freehand sharpen since. Fast forward 25 years and I became interested in knives again. The Sharpmaker was less than ideal for reprofiling so I decided to try a fixed angle sharpener. I weighed the pros & cons of all the various systems and ended up buying a Hapstone V7. I couldn't be happier. I love the precision and the fact that I can use a wide variety of stones. If somebody broke into my house and stole my V7 I wouldn't think twice about buying another one
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prndltech
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#9

Post by prndltech »

Guided systems are great for repeatable results at specific angles. Experimenting, testing etc...

Freehand is great cuz... well... you can use almost anything and get an edge on a knife. I really like Atoma’s diamond stones. The 400 grit is my choice.

There’s nothing wrong with using a guided system, particularly on more “super steels” that are less forgiving but I recommend don’t give up free hand sharpening either.

There’s PLENTY of room and good uses for both styles in every knife guys life. I free hand, I also use the sharpmaker for certain things. I’ve been indecisive on a high end guided system for a long time, but I still want one. I also would like a work sharp with knife grinding attachment.

Different tools for different knives/edges, and maybe ones faster for you, so how much time you have could be taken into account as well.
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Baron Mind
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#10

Post by Baron Mind »

Ultimately, I think it is optimal to be proficient at all freehand techniques and with multiple guided systems. I'd include belt sharpening as well. That is the goal, to be good at everything. All options have their strengths.

I love freehanding, and would say that is my primary and preferred way to sharpen, but being able to hop on a guided system when you want to is a beautiful thing. On a high end knife you may just really want an aesthetically perfect edge, or as was mentioned above, the ability to remove variables and really examine the properties of a new stone or steel.
bdblue
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#11

Post by bdblue »

I use a DMT aligner with its diamond stones. It is quick and easy although the DMT hardware is a bit crude. I can't spend the money for a wicked edge but I would like to have something made a little better than the DMT. I may end up making some bits of my own to supplement the DMT hardware.

But back to the question, if you are willing to put in the time to do freehand then that might be the best for you.
sherbert4537
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#12

Post by sherbert4537 »

I grew up learning to freehand sharpen. It’s a very universal skill. I know there are a variety of jigs that allow you to sharpen pretty much anything with a guided system but it feels like a dog and pony show sometimes. Without all the guides you can move through the grits faster in my experience.

I’m primarily a woodworker so I hollow grind to my desired angle. I leave a sliver steel before the edge before honing on diamond plates. The “hollow” acts as training wheels to guide the sharpening. It also reduces the amount of steel necessary to remove for final honing.

I don’t generally hollow grind my knives. A good way to use a similar training wheel is to cut a few Wooden wedges at different angles. I use these wedges to start the knife on and develop a feel for the angle. You don’t need them for every pass but it helps you visualize the right angle and hold very closely to it.

This is a great skill to learn as you won’t always have access to the guided setup. Credit card sized Diamond stones are handy and can be taken anywhere.
vivi
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#13

Post by vivi »

ArnAnders89 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:28 pm
Hey everybody I would really appreciate any advice y’all have for me. I just got a few new Spyderco knives one in Rex 45 and a K390 and I’ll be looking to get a maxamet soon.
Currently I have Chosera whetstones but I’m looking to get a new set of stones probably diamond, looking mainly at Venev’s.
But I keep getting drawn back to the guided systems like KME Hapstone are the main ones I’m looking at.
I need your guises help on whether or not I should stick with free handing and keep practicing or just get a guided system and be done with it?
There's no wrong answer. There's pros and cons to both methods.

Freehand is more versatile and less upfront expense.

Guided tends to give more precise, uniform bevels, and depending on your level of free hand skill you may achieve sharper edges.


--------------------------------------

The KME hapstone is about $450 based on a quick search.

For a mere $27 + shipping I can get everything I need for exceptional PE edges.

Here's a breakdown:

$12 - HF 4 sided Diamond block
$5 - Ceramic rod
$5 - Strop
$5 - Strop compound

This will let me apply anything from extremely coarse, 200 grit toothy edges, to refined polished edges optmized for push cutting.

If you want to be able to sharpen serrated knives, I'd budget another ~$125 for a sharpmaker with diamond or CBN rods.

If you want a belt sander to sharpen machetes, axes, lawnmower blades, etc, or to speed up reprofiling and modifying tip shapes, you're looking at Another $50 and $5 for extra belts.

Looking at it from a monetary perspective, I'd rather spend $27 to $200 dollars and buy a couple of new knives, than drop the coin on a KME, but everyone has their own outlook on sharpening.

I really enjoy free handing and again, I think it offers more versatility. I'm not experienced with the KME but some guided systems have trouble with knives that lack a sharpening notch, some don't offer acute enough angles for me since I like setting back bevels to the 8-12 degree range, etc.
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Deadboxhero
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#14

Post by Deadboxhero »

I agree
vivi wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:53 pm
ArnAnders89 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:28 pm
Hey everybody I would really appreciate any advice y’all have for me. I just got a few new Spyderco knives one in Rex 45 and a K390 and I’ll be looking to get a maxamet soon.
Currently I have Chosera whetstones but I’m looking to get a new set of stones probably diamond, looking mainly at Venev’s.
But I keep getting drawn back to the guided systems like KME Hapstone are the main ones I’m looking at.
I need your guises help on whether or not I should stick with free handing and keep practicing or just get a guided system and be done with it?
There's no wrong answer. There's pros and cons to both methods.

Freehand is more versatile and less upfront expense.

Guided tends to give more precise, uniform bevels, and depending on your level of free hand skill you may achieve sharper edges.


--------------------------------------

The KME hapstone is about $450 based on a quick search.

For a mere $27 + shipping I can get everything I need for exceptional PE edges.

Here's a breakdown:

$12 - HF 4 sided Diamond block
$5 - Ceramic rod
$5 - Strop
$5 - Strop compound

This will let me apply anything from extremely coarse, 200 grit toothy edges, to refined polished edges optmized for push cutting.

If you want to be able to sharpen serrated knives, I'd budget another ~$125 for a sharpmaker with diamond or CBN rods.

If you want a belt sander to sharpen machetes, axes, lawnmower blades, etc, or to speed up reprofiling and modifying tip shapes, you're looking at Another $50 and $5 for extra belts.

Looking at it from a monetary perspective, I'd rather spend $27 to $200 dollars and buy a couple of new knives, than drop the coin on a KME, but everyone has their own outlook on sharpening.

I really enjoy free handing and again, I think it offers more versatility. I'm not experienced with the KME but some guided systems have trouble with knives that lack a sharpening notch, some don't offer acute enough angles for me since I like setting back bevels to the 8-12 degree range, etc.
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KnOeFz
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#15

Post by KnOeFz »

I'm all for learning the skill to freehand sharpen your knives.
Diamond stones make just about any steel you like, no cupping of the stones.
Combine with some leather or balsa strops wit diamond paste and you're good to go.

And later add different type of stones to get different type of edges *** you progress.... it's fun.
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Menipo
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#16

Post by Menipo »

My personal preference is guided. I started freehand but the lack of consistency not only in subsequent sharpenings of the same knife but in both sides of the same blade made me think that the learning curve would be looooong. So I got a Lansky but its limitations with the predefined angles and some scratching problems that I experienced led me to the KME. I am really happy with it.

This the result of the first blade that I sharpened with the KME (I decided to make the experiment with a 440 old knife that I have before risking any of my precious Spydies).

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prndltech
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#17

Post by prndltech »

vivi wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:53 pm
ArnAnders89 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:28 pm
Hey everybody I would really appreciate any advice y’all have for me. I just got a few new Spyderco knives one in Rex 45 and a K390 and I’ll be looking to get a maxamet soon.
Currently I have Chosera whetstones but I’m looking to get a new set of stones probably diamond, looking mainly at Venev’s.
But I keep getting drawn back to the guided systems like KME Hapstone are the main ones I’m looking at.
I need your guises help on whether or not I should stick with free handing and keep practicing or just get a guided system and be done with it?
There's no wrong answer. There's pros and cons to both methods.

Freehand is more versatile and less upfront expense.

Guided tends to give more precise, uniform bevels, and depending on your level of free hand skill you may achieve sharper edges.


--------------------------------------

The KME hapstone is about $450 based on a quick search.

For a mere $27 + shipping I can get everything I need for exceptional PE edges.

Here's a breakdown:

$12 - HF 4 sided Diamond block
$5 - Ceramic rod
$5 - Strop
$5 - Strop compound

This will let me apply anything from extremely coarse, 200 grit toothy edges, to refined polished edges optmized for push cutting.

If you want to be able to sharpen serrated knives, I'd budget another ~$125 for a sharpmaker with diamond or CBN rods.

If you want a belt sander to sharpen machetes, axes, lawnmower blades, etc, or to speed up reprofiling and modifying tip shapes, you're looking at Another $50 and $5 for extra belts.

Looking at it from a monetary perspective, I'd rather spend $27 to $200 dollars and buy a couple of new knives, than drop the coin on a KME, but everyone has their own outlook on sharpening.

I really enjoy free handing and again, I think it offers more versatility. I'm not experienced with the KME but some guided systems have trouble with knives that lack a sharpening notch, some don't offer acute enough angles for me since I like setting back bevels to the 8-12 degree range, etc.
Out of curiosity, what do you use the ceremic rod for? Seems like we could skip that and make it $23 + S&H
- Shannon

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Albatross
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#18

Post by Albatross »

I usually sharpen freehand, but my obsessive personality took issue with the slight convexing my skills produce. Even if the bevels are matching, clean, and the knife is sharp, the convex edges just bother me.

I went out and got a KME, because it came with diamond stones, has a great reputation, and seems to produce the kinds of edges I'm after.

Here's the problem though: I hate it. The amount of time it takes to sharpen a knife with the KME makes the process unpleasant, since I'm used to how quickly bench stones can apex a knife. It took at least 2 hours to reprofile my Rex 45 Para 3 to 13 degrees per side. That's 2 hours, even with "the beast" 50 grit stone. ZDP-189 was as bad, if not worse.

Guided systems seem to bring out the worst in steels (in my opinion). If I sharpen Rex 45 or ZDP-189 on bench stones, it takes less than 45 minutes to reprofile and bring up a nice edge with a high grit finish. I never understood the complaints about certain steels being ridiculously difficult to sharpen, but now I do.

Another issue I have with the KME is the clamping system: it works for ffg blades, but if you don't set the blade in the clamp properly, your bevels won't match.

My advice? Keep up with the freehand sharpening, because you have more control over the edge, and also because you might find a fixed angle system to be as frustrating as I have.
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Sharp Guy
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#19

Post by Sharp Guy »

Albatross wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:24 pm
Another issue I have with the KME is the clamping system: it works for ffg blades, but if you don't set the blade in the clamp properly, your bevels won't match.
That's one of the reasons I went with a Hapstone V7. No clamps to deal with
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!
vivi
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Re: Need advice! Freehand or Guided System

#20

Post by vivi »

prndltech wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:21 pm
vivi wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:53 pm
ArnAnders89 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:28 pm
Hey everybody I would really appreciate any advice y’all have for me. I just got a few new Spyderco knives one in Rex 45 and a K390 and I’ll be looking to get a maxamet soon.
Currently I have Chosera whetstones but I’m looking to get a new set of stones probably diamond, looking mainly at Venev’s.
But I keep getting drawn back to the guided systems like KME Hapstone are the main ones I’m looking at.
I need your guises help on whether or not I should stick with free handing and keep practicing or just get a guided system and be done with it?
There's no wrong answer. There's pros and cons to both methods.

Freehand is more versatile and less upfront expense.

Guided tends to give more precise, uniform bevels, and depending on your level of free hand skill you may achieve sharper edges.


--------------------------------------

The KME hapstone is about $450 based on a quick search.

For a mere $27 + shipping I can get everything I need for exceptional PE edges.

Here's a breakdown:

$12 - HF 4 sided Diamond block
$5 - Ceramic rod
$5 - Strop
$5 - Strop compound

This will let me apply anything from extremely coarse, 200 grit toothy edges, to refined polished edges optmized for push cutting.

If you want to be able to sharpen serrated knives, I'd budget another ~$125 for a sharpmaker with diamond or CBN rods.

If you want a belt sander to sharpen machetes, axes, lawnmower blades, etc, or to speed up reprofiling and modifying tip shapes, you're looking at Another $50 and $5 for extra belts.

Looking at it from a monetary perspective, I'd rather spend $27 to $200 dollars and buy a couple of new knives, than drop the coin on a KME, but everyone has their own outlook on sharpening.

I really enjoy free handing and again, I think it offers more versatility. I'm not experienced with the KME but some guided systems have trouble with knives that lack a sharpening notch, some don't offer acute enough angles for me since I like setting back bevels to the 8-12 degree range, etc.
Out of curiosity, what do you use the ceremic rod for? Seems like we could skip that and make it $23 + S&H
Kitchen knives. Its all I need to keep them razor sharp.
:unicorn
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