12 reasons why the Delica is better than the Native

[Christian Noble]

With all due respect: Why would it be a mistake to choke up on a Delica in the place where other models have a choil?!? The Delica Ricasso is perfect for that, choked up on the Ricasso is probably my most used grip even in hard use and feels more stable and gives me more control than most (not all) choils.

And, as I've said repeatedly: Even choking up on the actual cutting edge of a knife is no problem if done right, I do that quite often and it has been done for centuries, not only on knives but also on swords. Just pressing the finger on an edge won't cut you if there is no back and force motion.

Hi Wartstein - I choke-up on blades probably more than most, below is an example of me choking up on a 4" fixed blade. My point was that using the finger choil on the Native gets me used to putting a back (ring or pinky) finger in that area and then on the blade edge when using other knives; caught myself doing that a couple times and went back to the Delica is all. Agree with your other points too.



Think you make like this article I wrote several years ago which is where the picture came from. It speaks with appreciation to simple knives for which I love the Delica and Ladybug in particular -- they just work well.
http://masterwoodsman.com/2015/mora-knife/
Moderator - please delete if self-promotion, was not intent and I don't sell anything

[anycal]

Some things I don't agree with based on what I remember reading in these pages.

- I don't see how the Delica excels in skinning over Native. ...

- Since it was mentioned twice, the Delica does not offer 10% cutting edge. On paper, the cutting edge is advertised as 65mm vs 62mm - 4 % at best. My actual measurement is 65mm vs 64mm, so less than 2%.

- I don't get the grip stability, rolling argument. But if I understand it correctly, the Native, due to it's taller and wider handle, definely rolls less in my grip.

Well put points.

- I know nothing about skinning, can´t weigh in on that

- I was the one stating that the Delica would have about 10 % more cutting edge:
My Native had an edge of 61mm (also the number on the Spyderco page), my Delica 66mm. That would be an increase from Native to Delica of 8.3 %, so I figure "about 10 %" is ok. Since the Delica on the Spyderco page "only" has 65mm of edge, you are right: The increase from Native to Delica is, given that, only 6.6 %. (Those exact numbers do not matter anyway, I could notice in use that the Delica offers more edge)

- Native less stable and more prone to "rolling" than the Delica at least in my hand:
Something I NEVER would have guessed when just holding the knives or just cutting paper, but true for me when for example whittling harder wood or cutting thicker card board. The Native is just not as stable, especially the index finger in the choil not too good supported and it starts to move around more than the Delica (btw.: I recall Sal saying something along the lines that he kept the "points" of the Endura handle also on the Endela, since this would prevent "rolling" - don´t know though what HE means with that term, but the Delica has that "points" too).

And funny: Later on I found two or three youtube "reviews" where people found that "moving in hand" thing with the Native too. See here for example https://youtu.be/qWvyjOsCRj4&t=792s (starting at about 12:15). Might be just true for some particular hand sizes, don´t know.. :)

Boy, you must be talking about some precission cuts

How are there no pics here?!

[steelcity16]

I feel like the Native is more of a work knife where the Delica is more of an EDC knife. If one were to force them in different directions.

Right, and for me, the Delica and Endura (and likely the Endela when I get around to grabbing one) are my go to for EDC almost every day. When I want to grab a more work oriented knife I will go fixed blade (mora and the like) or a larger folder like a Shaman, Manix XL, or maybe a Millie. So the Native doesn't really fill a need in my lineup these days. Like I said above though, I have nothing really against it, and I would buy it again, but only if it is an exclusive in some kind of "grail" combo like Cru-carta or Cru-ple.

[James Y]

When I “choke up” when using the Delica for detail work, I like to pinch the hole between my thumb and middle finger, and put my index finger on the blade spine about .05” or less from the tip.

Jim

[Wartstein]

Boy, you must be talking about some precission cuts

How are there no pics here?!

Amazing... (the pic)... I remember several pics here on this very forum that show the Natives clearly shorter edge (as it should be going by Spydercos own specs)
I should have some comparison pics Delica / Native myself too, hope I´ll still find ´em...

Right, it sounds weird that I notice a difference of just 5 mm (as it was between my Native and Delica) - but I honestly did! Might just be cause the Delica was my first Spyderco and thus I was so much used to the particular edge length.

[Wartstein]

Boy, you must be talking about some precission cuts

How are there no pics here?!

Ok, here you go: NOT my pic, but some random one from blade forums. But it shows the situation I know from my Native and Delica: Longer edge on the Delica... :confused:

[TkoK83Spy]

Wartstein does always fret over the minuscule detail of "cutting edge" Mere millimeters are a make or break, or game changer from one model to another. Which confuses me why he loves the Chaparral so much...it's cutting edge is much smaller than so many other knives. When in reality...does the cutting edge of the Native/Delica REALLY matter, considering all the other factors and actual major differences that come to play when discussing these two models.

[Wartstein]

Wartstein does always fret over the minuscule detail of "cutting edge" Mere millimeters are a make or break, or game changer from one model to another. Which confuses me why he loves the Chaparral so much...it's cutting edge is much smaller than so many other knives. When in reality...does the cutting edge of the Native/Delica REALLY matter, considering all the other factors and actual major differences that come to play when discussing these two models.

I really prefer being addressed or asked directly, but your way is, though a bit weird and ususual for this forum, still acceptable either

As I´ve explained multiple times: I emphasize amount of cutting edge just in a very particular size category of folders. That´s exactly the Native/Delica/Para3/Sage category. Small knives for me, but not very small.
And we all have different scenarios in which we use our knives. For me food prep is one, and here I just do notice if a knife has 60mm or 66mm of edge. Much like you, in your rather professional frequent use, notice the different amount of edge retention between steels a lot.

The Chap on the other hand for me is a very small knife for special scenarios, and that´s when I carry it. It is a much smaller package than the above mentioned folders and for that offers amazing ergos and a lot of edge.

And it is funny (generally): MOST of the times on this forum we´re discussing just minor details in depth. I think we can´t have it both ways: If discussing the difference between Seki and Golden FRN, or the difference between S30V and Cruwear (differences many people would not notice) has some value, that must be also true for discussing the difference between cutting edge length.
Even if it happens to be something that matters not much to some, but still to others.

[bobnikon]

Boy, you must be talking about some precission cuts

How are there no pics here?!

Ok, here you go: NOT my pic, but some random one from blade forums. But it shows the situation I know from my Native and Delica: Longer edge on the Delica... :confused:

Always hard to get perspective when they aren't lined up. Graph paper helps.

The red lines are parallel.

For the one showing the length there is a very insignificant difference that looks much bigger given the alignment.

For the one showing the belly, the lines are the same distance apart, the Native wins by far.

In the end, the actual effective cutting edge of the Native is almost identical, a tiny bit shorter, but much more belly.

[prndltech]

For real... we all care about minuscule details. we’re all abnormal freaks if we’re on a knife forum :cool:

[anycal]

Boy, you must be talking about some precission cuts

How are there no pics here?!

Amazing... (the pic)... I remember several pics here on this very forum that show the Natives clearly shorter edge (as it should be going by Spydercos own specs)
I should have some comparison pics Delica / Native myself too, hope I´ll still find ´em...

Right, it sounds weird that I notice a difference of just 5 mm (as it was between my Native and Delica) - but I honestly did! Might just be cause the Delica was my first Spyderco and thus I was so much used to the particular edge length.

Don't take this the wrong way. Like you, I want the folks here have the correct information from which to make a decision about what may or may not work for them. Personal experience is subjective, and should be viewed as such. But something like specs should be pretty straight forward.

I measured 3 of my 4 Natives (one is on loan), and all 3 Delicas. Consistently 64mm vs 65mm.

In an effort to beat a dead horse...
Based on your recollection/measurement, if we want to be scientific here - 5mm longer then 61mm is 8.2%
Based on Spyderco's advertised length of 61mm vs 65mm - the Delica is 6.3% longer
Based on my measurements of 6 knives, 64mm vs 65mm - the Delica is 1.5% longer

Is your 5mm vs my 1mm going to make that much difference to me during any type of a cutting task. I don't see how.

Don't get me started on tip strength and level of pointiness you mention quite a bit...

Ok, here you go: NOT my pic, but some random one from blade forums. But it shows the situation I know from my Native and Delica: Longer edge on the Delica... :confused:

I could be wrong, but based on that ricasso, that Native looks like it has been sharpened quite a bit.

[Wartstein]

For real... we all care about minuscule details. we’re all abnormal freaks if we’re on a knife forum :cool:

Well said!
And this thread really teaches us that:

- Most "non knife people" would say it totally does not matter if one chooses the Native FRN or the Delica: Both FRN, both backlock, both roughly the same cutting edge...

- But this is the Spyderco forum:
One might be focused on Golden vs Seki FRN (which I can talk about but it does not matter to me personally), the next might have a strong opinion about leaf shape vs drop point (but not care for the type of FRN), one might have clear preferences concerning the Golden vs the Seki backlock, and for me it is the differences in cutting edge in that particular size range (again, on the Spyderco page 4mm, on my two examples 5mm... ridiculous? Absolutely, yes! But not more than a bit more or less belly, liners vs no liners and so on... :p)

This forum would not be the same place if we would not be like we are. A bunch of nice, enthusiastic, but well... also a bit crazy folks... :p
And beginning to judge which kinds of looking into the very details are ok, and which are not, would not be a good thing in my book.

[Sonorum]

I want to start this with saying that this is how the knives feel to me.

For me the Native is a work knife in this sense:

For other things I used to carry this at work:

Good points, and you are right on your choices 100% :)

Still, and maybe even especially for the "Stanley knife tasks" I personally would choose the Delica (WHARNIE if I could!!) over the Native.
Total personal preference of course and I´d be more than fine with a Native too.

To throw in a third knife in this debate I have to admit that I've often carried the Native along with a Byrd hawkbill and recently asked Sal if they couldn't make a Byrd wharncliffe? A knife I wouldn't have to be as scared of hurting as my pricey native. But a Meadowlark is a bit different to a Delica :)

[Sonorum]

Boy, you must be talking about some precission cuts

How are there no pics here?!

Amazing... (the pic)... I remember several pics here on this very forum that show the Natives clearly shorter edge (as it should be going by Spydercos own specs)
I should have some comparison pics Delica / Native myself too, hope I´ll still find ´em...

Right, it sounds weird that I notice a difference of just 5 mm (as it was between my Native and Delica) - but I honestly did! Might just be cause the Delica was my first Spyderco and thus I was so much used to the particular edge length.

Don't take this the wrong way. Like you, I want the folks here have the correct information from which to make a decision about what may or may not work for them. Personal experience is subjective, and should be viewed as such. But something like specs should be pretty straight forward.

I measured 3 of my 4 Natives (one is on loan), and all 3 Delicas. Consistently 64mm vs 65mm.

In an effort to beat a dead horse...
Based on your recollection/measurement, if we want to be scientific here - 5mm longer then 61mm is 8.2%
Based on Spyderco's advertised length of 61mm vs 65mm - the Delica is 6.3% longer
Based on my measurements of 6 knives, 64mm vs 65mm - the Delica is 1.5% longer

Is your 5mm vs my 1mm going to make that much difference to me during any type of a cutting task. I don't see how.

Don't get me started on tip strength and level of pointiness you mention quite a bit...

Ok, here you go: NOT my pic, but some random one from blade forums. But it shows the situation I know from my Native and Delica: Longer edge on the Delica... :confused:

I could be wrong, but based on that ricasso, that Native looks like it has been sharpened quite a bit.

What I see in this picture is a more full grip on the Native :D

[Wartstein]

Don't take this the wrong way. Like you, I want the folks here have the correct information from which to make a decision about what may or may not work for them. Personal experience is subjective, and should be viewed as such. But something like specs should be pretty straight forward.

I measured 3 of my 4 Natives (one is on loan), and all 3 Delicas. Consistently 64mm vs 65mm.

In an effort to beat a dead horse...
Based on your recollection/measurement, if we want to be scientific here - 5mm longer then 61mm is 8.2%
Based on Spyderco's advertised length of 61mm vs 65mm - the Delica is 6.3% longer
Based on my measurements of 6 knives, 64mm vs 65mm - the Delica is 1.5% longer

Is your 5mm vs my 1mm going to make that much difference to me during any type of a cutting task. I don't see how.

Don't get me started on tip strength and level of pointiness you mention quite a bit...

No worries, I don´t take this the wrong way at all! Your clearly higher sample is high evidence that I am just wrong concerning the cutting edge length of Delica vs Native and you are right! :)

I had just one Native and several Delicas (but measured just one), and there the difference was 5mm - a bit over 8%; since that is not too far from what Spyderco says (4 mm / a bit over 6 %) I went with my specs and said "about 10 % more edge". Just to give an impression, no intention to state exact specs. (And funny that the number on the Spyderco page (61mm) is 3mm off when compared to your measurements. And I absolutely do believe YOU, I have often wondered why for example on the Spyderco page the Manix 2 LW has a shorter edge than the Manix 2 G10... ?!)

And yes, I did notice that difference in cutting edge in my Native vs my Delica, otherwise I would not even have measured the edges back then.

Again, probably just a matter of on what one is focused in this hobby and what one enjoys or wants. Much like a person might be deep into sharpening and prefers an edge a bit toothier, something many others would not even notice or at least say it makes no difference at all. Still there are whole threads about this.
For me, when cutting fruits for example, my specific Delica did better (partly) due to its longer edge - not by much of course, but again, most details we´re discussing here don´t make a huge difference. :)

[pantagana23]

After handling Delica for a couple of days, I must say that Native is more comfortable in the hand. If you carry your knife tip up like me, you will find that Natives clip naturally slides between your finger, unlike Delicas, which forces your finger right on the peak of handle contouring, making it uncomfortable to operate.
Delica should have that mid handle contouring removed im the next generation, as it really narrows versatility.

[James Y]

Which is better, Delica or Native, wholly depends on personal preferences. For me, the Delica wins every time. It’s simply more comfortable in MY hand. And my hands are medium-sized, not small. Personal preference depends on a lot of factors.

I really gave the Native a chance (both G10 and LWT versions), but they just didn’t work out for me; the Native is a good design, but I feel it tries to force my hand to hold it in a way I don’t always want to hold a knife when I’m using it.

Jim

[pantagana23]

Which is better, Delica or Native, wholly depends on personal preferences. For me, the Delica wins every time. It’s simply more comfortable in MY hand. And my hands are medium-sized, not small. Personal preference depends on a lot of factors.

I really gave the Native a chance (both G10 and LWT versions), but they just didn’t work out for me; the Native is a good design, but I feel it tries to force my hand to hold it in a way I don’t always want to hold a knife when I’m using it.

Jim

Where do your fingers end up on Delicas handle when holding it standard (thumb on ramp, fingers around handle, dominant hand)?

For me, I can either (relatively) squeeze index and middle before contouring peak, but then the clip creates a hotspot, or I can move my middle finger to the slide of the clip, but then it's hitting right on the contouring peak.

Ineresting part - when I move the knife to my non dominant hand, so that the clip is no longer facing my palm, the d**n handle fits like a glove, as my middle finger ends up right in the slide of the clip.

[Christian Noble]

I believe Sal's response in the thread linked below is good insight for some of the discussions here, I know I learned a lot...

Big little knives
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87775

[James Y]

Which is better, Delica or Native, wholly depends on personal preferences. For me, the Delica wins every time. It’s simply more comfortable in MY hand. And my hands are medium-sized, not small. Personal preference depends on a lot of factors.

I really gave the Native a chance (both G10 and LWT versions), but they just didn’t work out for me; the Native is a good design, but I feel it tries to force my hand to hold it in a way I don’t always want to hold a knife when I’m using it.

Jim

Where do your fingers end up on Delicas handle when holding it standard (thumb on ramp, fingers around handle, dominant hand)?

For me, I can either (relatively) squeeze index and middle before contouring peak, but then the clip creates a hotspot, or I can move my middle finger to the slide of the clip, but then it's hitting right on the contouring peak.

Ineresting part - when I move the knife to my non dominant hand, so that the clip is no longer facing my palm, the d**n handle fits like a glove, as my middle finger ends up right in the slide of the clip.

My index finger ends up just below the end (slight guard?) of the handle, and that first bump in the handle is between my middle and ring fingers. Sometimes, if I want to tilt the blade a little forward, or reach out a little farther, I’ll move my hand down so that first bump is between my index and middle fingers (the former reason with my thumb on the jimping, and the latter reason with my thumb off of it).

Jim