Ball Bearing lock redux?

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Bemo
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Ball Bearing lock redux?

Postby Bemo » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:41 pm

The inspiration for this is JuPaul's thread having to do with finding a small non-back lock Spidey for her husband. Got me thinking. I like different locking mechanisms. I like smaller and light weight knives as well. One of my favorite "office" knives (back when I actually went into the office) is the Chaparral. Just a great knife. I think it punches above it's weight class, really on par with the Delica and the blade size isn't far off. So how about a version of the Chappy with a ball bearing lock? I get that previous versions of the ball bearing lock got mixed reviews (Q Ball is a good example), but maybe a revised version would lend itself well to this application? Thoughts?

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Wartstein
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Re: Ball Bearing lock redux?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:36 pm

Hi Bemo,

I really like the CBBL, it is my second favorite lock just behind the mid backlock.
I also really like the Chap.

But I am afraid a Chap in the current shape and form could never have a CBBL. It certainly would have to have an a lot thicker - (like Manix thickness) and most likely also taller handle..
unless they'd somehow manage to construct a much smaller CBBL-unit, but I can't imagine that at least concerning the thinness of the Chap.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

Bemo
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Re: Ball Bearing lock redux?

Postby Bemo » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:54 pm

Hmmmm yeah you're probably right about the thickness of the Chap, and a smaller ball in the lock would make it very difficult for folks with sausages for fingers to operate. Ah well it was a fun thought excercise.

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Re: Ball Bearing lock redux?

Postby JuPaul » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:59 pm

A mini Manix somewhere in the size of the Chaparral or Native 5 is definitely a dream knife for me (and my husband would love it :p). But I'm not sure how feasible it is for the reasons Wartstein listed. Sigh...
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nerdlock
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Re: Ball Bearing lock redux?

Postby nerdlock » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:09 pm

I think a contemporary lock with almost identical operations with the current CBBL from Spyderco's past are the Poliwog, Sage 3, and Dodo. If somehow the Manix was shrinked down to Sage size and a variation of the CCBL implemented, it would be an great hit.

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Wartstein
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Re: Ball Bearing lock redux?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:48 pm

nerdlock wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:09 pm
I think a contemporary lock with almost identical operations with the current CBBL from Spyderco's past are the Poliwog, Sage 3, and Dodo. If somehow the Manix was shrinked down to Sage size and a variation of the CCBL implemented, it would be an great hit.
Different discussion, but when shrinking a Manix it would always resul in a rather different knife than the original Manix 2 (not only in the size) - which does not have a bad thing necessarely, dont´t get me wrong.

- If the overall shape is kept in a shrunken Manix: It would certainly be a knife most people would have to use the finger choil in order to get a four finger grip - due to the "hook" / "beak" at the rear of the handle that is not even placed at the very end (like it is on the Stretch for example).
So in a smaller Manix that comfortable grip for up to XL hands behind the choil would not be there anymore

- If the "hook" at the rear end of the handle would be abandonded (and the handle would be shaped there like on a Sage or Chap, so flat with maximized grip area): It would at least not look like a Manix anymore...

That being said: A smaller - or for that matter ANY additional!! - CBBL knife would be very appreciated! Just a great lock that gets used much to seldom imho...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Ball Bearing lock redux?

Postby Hambone » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:05 pm

Agree with so much of above... I really feel a smaller CBBL would do well. Especially if the plastic cage was how how abandoned alone the way.

Bemo
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Re: Ball Bearing lock redux?

Postby Bemo » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:10 pm

I have appreciation for the locking mechanism on the Sage 3 (Blackie Collins design) but it really doesn't feel the same as the captive ball bearing lock, there's a roughness to it that I think is inherent in the design (it's basically a round bar moving into the slot in the blade). I think the BBL or CBBL is a more elegant design in the end. Just would love to see it used more on a greater variety of models. If a mini-manix is made, oh yeah I'm in for it definitely. Of course I have no illusions my meanderings will move the needle at Spyderco, and really there's so many great models that they're continuing to refine and new ones in the pipeline that are probably more deserving, but I do appreciate everyone's humoring me.

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Wartstein
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Re: Ball Bearing lock redux?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:18 pm

Bemo wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:10 pm
...... the BBL or CBBL is a more elegant design in the end. Just would love to see it used more on a greater variety of models. If a mini-manix is made, oh yeah I'm in for it definitely. Of course I have no illusions my meanderings will move the needle at Spyderco, and really there's so many great models that they're continuing to refine and new ones in the pipeline that are probably more deserving, but I do appreciate everyone's humoring me.

I do not fully understand why there are so few CBBL knives.

Sure, this lock type comes with limitations concerning possible designs (so I figure the handle has to be rather tall and some kind of a choil in the blade is mandatory).

But other than that:
It combines an easy comp.lock-ish "fingers all the time of of the blade path when closing" - option many people obviously want (though I personally don´t need that and it can be done with a backlock either) AND the additional backlock safety (closing bias, no opening in the pocket).
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

skeeg11
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Re: Ball Bearing lock redux?

Postby skeeg11 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:09 pm

Bemo wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:10 pm
I have appreciation for the locking mechanism on the Sage 3 (Blackie Collins design) but it really doesn't feel the same as the captive ball bearing lock, there's a roughness to it that I think is inherent in the design (it's basically a round bar moving into the slot in the blade). I think the BBL or CBBL is a more elegant design in the end. Just would love to see it used more on a greater variety of models. If a mini-manix is made, oh yeah I'm in for it definitely. Of course I have no illusions my meanderings will move the needle at Spyderco, and really there's so many great models that they're continuing to refine and new ones in the pipeline that are probably more deserving, but I do appreciate everyone's humoring me.
I like the bolt action lock very much. Perhaps it can be used to make a CBBL type knife slimmer or less tall. My Gerber Bolt Action Filet is very smooth and takes a whole lot less effort to deploy than on my S110v Manix 2 LW which some have complained about and view as a no go. It may not be as durable as Spyderco's CBBL but perhaps that could be remedied with the application of Spyderco resins or protecting certain plastic surfaces with steel. I can very well understand Spyderco's favoring the use of their own proprietary locks, but if they did employ the bolt action lock on some of their designs, I would be most interested indeed.

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Sharp Guy
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Re: Ball Bearing lock redux?

Postby Sharp Guy » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:14 pm

Bemo wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:10 pm
I have appreciation for the locking mechanism on the Sage 3 (Blackie Collins design) but it really doesn't feel the same as the captive ball bearing lock, there's a roughness to it that I think is inherent in the design (it's basically a round bar moving into the slot in the blade).
FWIW, the bolt-action lock on my Sage 3 is smooth as can be. No roughness at all. As much as I like the caged ball bearing lock I think I'd rather see the bolt-action lock used on a smaller knife. I think the b-a lock would be easier to operate
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nerdlock
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Re: Ball Bearing lock redux?

Postby nerdlock » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:31 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:48 pm
Different discussion, but when shrinking a Manix it would always resul in a rather different knife than the original Manix 2 (not only in the size) - which does not have a bad thing necessarely, dont´t get me wrong.

- If the overall shape is kept in a shrunken Manix: It would certainly be a knife most people would have to use the finger choil in order to get a four finger grip - due to the "hook" / "beak" at the rear of the handle that is not even placed at the very end (like it is on the Stretch for example).
So in a smaller Manix that comfortable grip for up to XL hands behind the choil would not be there anymore

- If the "hook" at the rear end of the handle would be abandonded (and the handle would be shaped there like on a Sage or Chap, so flat with maximized grip area): It would at least not look like a Manix anymore...


It doesn't have to be Sage-sized, just throwing out a thought-experiment right there. A little larger than the Sage but smaller than the current Manix would be like Goldilock's dream knife. ;)

I was comparing it to the Sage because if anything, Sage 3 allowed us a glimpse of how a CBBL "might" theoretically work in a smaller knife with no finger choil. Of course, some redesign on the CBBL lock might be needed, and it might pose an interesting and worthy challenge to the great minds there at Golden.

And of course, design changes might be necessitated in order to pull this one through. I actually made a render in Photoshop on how a theoretical "Manix 3" might look - granted, it was only about thinning the wide ergonomics of the knife, but it would be fun to think how a Manix 3 or Mini-Manix could possibly look like.

I am actually looking forward to a redesigned/smaller Manix 3/Mini-Manix seeing how the Para 3 was derived from the PM2 design. I think that would push Spyderco's design ideas forward. Both are different knives, but the PM DNA still runs through the Para 3. :)


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