This is disappointing...

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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TkoK83Spy
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby TkoK83Spy » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:58 am

Evil D wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:35 am
"I just wanted to try it out so I got the cheap one"

Is like saying

"I'm gonna test drive this kit car built off a Pontiac Fiero because I might want to buy a Ferrari if I like it".

Hahah, you hit the nail on the head with that one. Perfect way to sum that up.
20 :spyder:'s in 11 different steels
2 - ZT's - 0460 and 0470
1 - Microtech Ultratech DE OTF
1 - Civivi Elementum

-Rick

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VooDooChild
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby VooDooChild » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:00 am

Haha... the PM200 Pacer
sal wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:14 pm
... "The edge is a ghost"...

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TkoK83Spy
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby TkoK83Spy » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:03 am

I just came back from the shop, but forgot my phone in my office so I couldn't get a pic. I took the blue one apart and the terrible action is easily understood now. It has ONE white (teflon I imagine) washer! Not two, but one!
20 :spyder:'s in 11 different steels
2 - ZT's - 0460 and 0470
1 - Microtech Ultratech DE OTF
1 - Civivi Elementum

-Rick

soc_monki
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby soc_monki » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:55 am

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:03 am
I just came back from the shop, but forgot my phone in my office so I couldn't get a pic. I took the blue one apart and the terrible action is easily understood now. It has ONE white (teflon I imagine) washer! Not two, but one!
Probably not even Teflon, just some kind of cheap plastic.
Spyderco : Resilience, Tenacious, Persistence, Manix 2 G10, Para 3 G10, Para 3 LW, Paramilitary 2,
BBS Paramilitary 2, Amalgam, Native Chief, Blade HQ Manix 2 XL, Shaman, Gayle Bradley 2, DLC M4 Shaman
Kershaw : Tone, Thermite, Atmos, Natrix 7007cf, Natrix 7008cf, Bareknuckle 7777, Bareknuckle 20cv, Concierge, 7777CFM390 Bareknuckle
Zero Tolerance : 0566CF, 0770CF, 0770GRYBW, 0562CF, 0470, 0456CF, 0095BW, 0801TI
Ontario : Rat 1
CRKT : Caligo
Civivi : Plethiros, Baklash, Incite, Vexer
Cold Steel : AD10, 4Max Scout, SR1 Lite
Benchmade : 810-1401 Contego, 15080-2 Crooked River, 15080-Custom Crooked River, 560BK-1 Super Freek, 15085 Mini Crooked River, 15085-Custom Mini Crooked River, 940-2, 550-1 Griptilian, 950bk Rift, 940-1, Custom Sheepsfoot Griptilian
Buck : 110, Bucklite 422, 110 LT, 110 Slim Select, 112 Slim Pro, Custom 110, 1978-79 110
Artisan : Tradition
Hogue : Ritter RSK MK1-G2
Kabar : Becker BK2 Campanion
Hinderer : XM-18, XM-24

soc_monki
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby soc_monki » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:00 pm

Albatross wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:29 am
I don't buy fakes, clones, or any sort of imitation; it's one thing I will not compromise on. Seeing people buy fakes really bothers me, especially when the excuses come.

"I wanted to try a PM2, but didn't feel like spending X amount of money."

"It's a good way to see if I like the model, without spending a lot, in case I don't like it."

The worst of it are the YouTube reviewers, who promote fakes, and suggest there's little to no difference between a fake and an authentic, which is mind-blowing. Even if it's true, it's theft. They focus on value, not ethics. I feel like that's extremely irresponsible, and if someone was ripping off their videos to make money, I'm sure their opinions would change. I doubt they would tell you that stealing videos is a good way for someone to get into YouTube video-making.

On a less cynical note, some people just don't make the connection, and therefore don't understand why it might be an issue. Luckily, these people are usually at least somewhat receptive of advice about avoiding fakes. Maybe some day fakes will be regulated in every country.

Also, that blue one is so bad I laughed.
I've quit watching a few reviewers because of them promoting Ganzo, or some other counterfeit knife. "this fake X knife is so good, I sold my real one!". I don't understand it! Sure the fake is $20, but I'd rather have a knife I can be proud of that won't fall apart and I can get serviced with a warranty!

I've seen so many people complain about certain company's prices, including Spyderco, but I'm happy to pay because I want to support them, not thieves.
Spyderco : Resilience, Tenacious, Persistence, Manix 2 G10, Para 3 G10, Para 3 LW, Paramilitary 2,
BBS Paramilitary 2, Amalgam, Native Chief, Blade HQ Manix 2 XL, Shaman, Gayle Bradley 2, DLC M4 Shaman
Kershaw : Tone, Thermite, Atmos, Natrix 7007cf, Natrix 7008cf, Bareknuckle 7777, Bareknuckle 20cv, Concierge, 7777CFM390 Bareknuckle
Zero Tolerance : 0566CF, 0770CF, 0770GRYBW, 0562CF, 0470, 0456CF, 0095BW, 0801TI
Ontario : Rat 1
CRKT : Caligo
Civivi : Plethiros, Baklash, Incite, Vexer
Cold Steel : AD10, 4Max Scout, SR1 Lite
Benchmade : 810-1401 Contego, 15080-2 Crooked River, 15080-Custom Crooked River, 560BK-1 Super Freek, 15085 Mini Crooked River, 15085-Custom Mini Crooked River, 940-2, 550-1 Griptilian, 950bk Rift, 940-1, Custom Sheepsfoot Griptilian
Buck : 110, Bucklite 422, 110 LT, 110 Slim Select, 112 Slim Pro, Custom 110, 1978-79 110
Artisan : Tradition
Hogue : Ritter RSK MK1-G2
Kabar : Becker BK2 Campanion
Hinderer : XM-18, XM-24

Rp5
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby Rp5 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:10 pm

I wouldn't pay $20 for a knockoff knife because there's a baseline reason to distrust the parts going into it. Says it's a Spyderco, it's not, says it's S30V steel... probably not. Seems like the easiest way to end up with two $10 halves of a knife.

Don't get me wrong, I have beater knives that I paid under 50 bucks for which I'll use accordingly. If it's AUS-8, or D2, or 1095, I realize those have different toughness levels. If it's a knockoff, no matter how good the action is, no matter how good the grip feels, I'm not going to trust the blade to do anything.
Last edited by Rp5 on Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Spydergirl88
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby Spydergirl88 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:13 pm

Abyss_Fish wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:38 am
Those beautiful spray paint coated blades though
Lmao

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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby Spydergirl88 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:24 pm

Reminds me of people who buy the cheapest toilet paper possible thinking they will save money but end up spending more than they would have if they bought the good stuff

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Albatross
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby Albatross » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:25 pm

soc_monki wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:00 pm
Albatross wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:29 am
I don't buy fakes, clones, or any sort of imitation; it's one thing I will not compromise on. Seeing people buy fakes really bothers me, especially when the excuses come.

"I wanted to try a PM2, but didn't feel like spending X amount of money."

"It's a good way to see if I like the model, without spending a lot, in case I don't like it."

The worst of it are the YouTube reviewers, who promote fakes, and suggest there's little to no difference between a fake and an authentic, which is mind-blowing. Even if it's true, it's theft. They focus on value, not ethics. I feel like that's extremely irresponsible, and if someone was ripping off their videos to make money, I'm sure their opinions would change. I doubt they would tell you that stealing videos is a good way for someone to get into YouTube video-making.

On a less cynical note, some people just don't make the connection, and therefore don't understand why it might be an issue. Luckily, these people are usually at least somewhat receptive of advice about avoiding fakes. Maybe some day fakes will be regulated in every country.

Also, that blue one is so bad I laughed.
I've quit watching a few reviewers because of them promoting Ganzo, or some other counterfeit knife. "this fake X knife is so good, I sold my real one!". I don't understand it! Sure the fake is $20, but I'd rather have a knife I can be proud of that won't fall apart and I can get serviced with a warranty!

I've seen so many people complain about certain company's prices, including Spyderco, but I'm happy to pay because I want to support them, not thieves.
I'm surprised that it's not against YouTube's TOS to promote fakes.

Meanwhile you can't play 10 seconds of any songs worth hearing, because it's taking food off the tables of musicians...
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

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RamZar
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby RamZar » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:28 pm

If it’s too good to be true - buyer beware!

By knowingly buying counterfeits you’re supporting the illegitimate business and taking business away from the legitimate company which owns the trademark, patent or copyright. Two-thirds of all counterfeit products come out of China.
  • I welcome dialog, as long as it remains cordial, constructive and is conducted in a civilized manner. - Titanic: Blood & Steel
  • You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. - Abraham Lincoln

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Evil D
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby Evil D » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:44 pm

I wonder how many people have knowingly bought fakes and found that it was a POS knife and then wrote off Spyderco altogether thinking that it somehow reflected on the real thing?
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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TkoK83Spy
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby TkoK83Spy » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:26 pm

Evil D wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:44 pm
I wonder how many people have knowingly bought fakes and found that it was a POS knife and then wrote off Spyderco altogether thinking that it somehow reflected on the real thing?
I thought about that too, orrrr people thinking those are actual Spyderco knives and thinking their junk. Then writing off Spyderco as a whole, though obviously if they looked at a reputable dealer website they'd see the huge difference in pricing.
20 :spyder:'s in 11 different steels
2 - ZT's - 0460 and 0470
1 - Microtech Ultratech DE OTF
1 - Civivi Elementum

-Rick

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anycal
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby anycal » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:48 pm

Devil's advocate, who is by no means a legal scholar, here.

Fake knife - sold as something it is not. A copy not made by the actual maker of the knife. Clearly illegal, no question.

Knock off knife - 'looks' like something else. If they are not braking any patent or trademark rules, is it illegal? Crossing into some gray area, obviously. Lazy in terms of development and design.

Both are bad, although one may or may not be illegal. Bad for the industry and their IP. Bad for the customer if you unknowingly buy a fake.

Personally, I have no interest in either. In an ideal world, neither would exist. All we can do is try to do the right thing, and educate others.
Last edited by anycal on Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Peter

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Evil D
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby Evil D » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:52 pm

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:26 pm
Evil D wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:44 pm
I wonder how many people have knowingly bought fakes and found that it was a POS knife and then wrote off Spyderco altogether thinking that it somehow reflected on the real thing?
I thought about that too, orrrr people thinking those are actual Spyderco knives and thinking their junk. Then writing off Spyderco as a whole, though obviously if they looked at a reputable dealer website they'd see the huge difference in pricing.


I'm sure both happen, along with people thinking there's just no way the price difference could mean the knife is that much better than the fake.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Tucson Tom
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby Tucson Tom » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:54 pm

I bought a couple (I think $13 each) a couple of years ago, just because I had to see how bad they were. I knew without a doubt when I ordered them that they would be bogus. I suppose that just encourages these no-goods to keep at it, and therefore I should feel bad and deserve to be publicly shamed.

You know the saying, curiosity killed the cat. Anyway one won't even lock up reliably and is a hazard to anyone who would expect anything more than a slip joint knife. They are in the bogus boxes (I think) way in the back of my drawer-o-knives.
I should probably grind off the spyderco logo in case they fall into the hands of the enemy.

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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby fanglekai » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:17 pm

Rp5 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:10 pm
I wouldn't pay $20 for a knockoff knife because there's a baseline reason to distrust the parts going into it. Says it's a Spyderco, it's not, says it's S30V steel... probably not. Seems like the easiest way to end up with two $10 halves of a knife.

Don't get me wrong, I have beater knives that I paid under 50 bucks for which I'll use accordingly. If it's AUS-8, or D2, or 1095, I realize those have different toughness levels. If it's a knockoff, no matter how good the action is, no matter how good the grip feels, I'm not going to trust the blade to do anything.
There's exactly 0% chance that the fakes use S30V. They're already lying that the knife is a Spyderco. Why would they bother buying American steel, shipping it to China, pay more to heat treat it (assuming these blades are even heat treated) and grind it, etc.? There's no profit in that at $20.

Anyway, if someone only has ~$20 to spend, point them to a Byrd. The Cara Cara 2 I have is solid and a lot of knife for the money. I was curious about Spyderco's lower end line and it doesn't disappoint.

Monty
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby Monty » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:38 pm

TomAiello wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:11 am
What surprises me is that the factories making these don't just make their own knives. They obviously have the tools and skill to make at least halfway decent $20 gas station knives. And those would sell too (for similar prices) and build a brand.

I've bought some fairly decent China-made knives, running their own brand, with their own designs, with actual makers marks from the (Chinese) designers. That seems like a much better way to run a business.

I'd say that supporting the ethical Chinese manufacturers is at least as important as boycotting the forgeries--and boycotting the forgeries isn't hard because by and large they are very poor imitations.

In other words, why buy a fake PM2 when you could buy a real Tenacious?
Making clones is an easy way to build up funds, once they've got good equipment and can afford good materials, they can then start marketing knives under another brand name and go legit. It's also a moonlighting gig for those already in the business. There's a couple "respected" Chinese brands now that started out under questionable circumstances.

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Menipo
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby Menipo » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:30 pm

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

If there are people who knowingly buy fake MEDICINES on the Internet because they cost a fraction of the price of the real ones, one should not get surprised if a moron buys a PM2 for $20 and thinks that he cut a really good deal.

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein
Si vis pacem para bellum ;)

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Donut
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby Donut » Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:53 pm

Where did he get them?

Just kidding! :D
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mikey177
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Re: This is disappointing...

Postby mikey177 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:55 pm

anycal wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:48 pm
Devil's advocate, who is by no means a legal scholar, here.

Fake knife - sold as something it is not. A copy not made by the actual maker of the knife. Clearly illegal, no question.

Knock off knife - 'looks' like something else. If they are not braking any patent or trademark rules, is it illegal? Crossing into some gray area, obviously. Lazy in terms of development and design.

Both are bad, although one may or may not be illegal. Bad for the industry and their IP. Bad for the customer if you unknowingly buy a fake.

Personally, I have no interest in either. In an ideal world, neither would exist. All we can do is try to do the right thing, and educate others.
So does the Brother model 1606 fall under the category of knock off, since it doesn't identify as a Spyderco P'Kal?

The photo is from a Chinese website selling assorted gear. I only stumbled across it while researching on the P'Kal.
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brother_model_1606_pkal_clone_06.jpg


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